more protests and embassies under attack

[Steeplerot]

. That line of thought is the same as the fundie goat-lovers who are protesting a shitty movie-trailer that they have never even seen, 4 months after it was released.

Which describes the average right winger in here repeating endless outrage divisive talking points daily on their moral crusade. The irony of the fantasyworld you guys live in is endlessly bountiful..

You ever stopped, and thought about how foolish and hypocritical you sound to someone not indoctrinated into your cult right wing world? Obviously not, or you cannot.

 

[Orignal Earl]

All I want to add to this Earl is that a German embassy was set a blaze. A German embassy. the fuck? Why? Possibly due to this film or possibly due to the fact that Germany allowed a protest to go on where effigies of the Prophet were used in poor light. Either way, this isn't isolated to just the US and our beliefs.

The German embassy is close to downtown and the American one was way out on the highway
Most of these hardliners blame Imperialism from the West for the shape of their country
So I would say one of them threw the match.


Germany just banned Terry Jones and is considering banning the film.
I'm waiting for the calls here to nuke Berlin, you know for insulting American freedom

 

[bfdd]

Sure, turn on AM radio or corporate media. There they are. Replace jihad with "cultural war" -same difference.

Fixed btw

Except these people are choosing a group identifier so you didn't fix anything. I'm asking you to define what we call this group? Tea Partiers are Tea Partiers because they associate and label themselves such. I'm asking what we call these other people. I realize a little constructive thought is hard for you since you're way to busy attacking others and being an emotional idiot, but if you find it in you to muster a thought, please answer my question because I'm looking for an answer. I'm not here to demonize a "group" of people who may not be affiliated and lump them together, I simply want to use the labels people use for themselves. So what are they? If this is organized because of their shared religious beliefs then there is nothing wrong with calling this West vs The Muslims or West vs Islam. I don't believe that is what it is, but that is how it is being presented and not just by one side, but by both.

Again you're to emotional and to quick to jump to assumptions, to quick to insult others because you're to weak to deal with your own lackings.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Ive seen some stories about police using rubber bullets. Muslims are just taught that Murder is what you do when you dont like someone. In fact killing non-muslims is like exterminating a monkey or a rat. It is not even considered murder because non-muslims are not people. Can you really do anything for people that think like that? Let them starve.

Oh you Mormons...
We can't let people like this get in power can we?

 

[Steeplerot]

Except these people are choosing a group identifier so you didn't fix anything. I'm asking you to define what we call this group? Tea Partiers are Tea Partiers because they associate and label themselves such. I'm asking what we call these other people. I realize a little constructive thought is hard for you since you're way to busy attacking others and being an emotional idiot, but if you find it in you to muster a thought, please answer my question because I'm looking for an answer. I'm not here to demonize a "group" of people who may not be affiliated and lump them together, I simply want to use the labels people use for themselves. So what are they? If this is organized because of their shared religious beliefs then there is nothing wrong with calling this West vs The Muslims or West vs Islam. I don't believe that is what it is, but that is how it is being presented and not just by one side, but by both.

Again you're to emotional and to quick to jump to assumptions, to quick to insult others because you're to weak to deal with your own lackings.

Doesent matter what you call it, "common sense values" "traditional values" "conservative tradition" "jihad" its all the same moral crusading douchebaggery that leads people to dehumanize others, in the long run dividing the working class against one another through religion. The oldest game in the book, and right wingers will happily jump on the hate wagon whatever vehicle gets you there.

This thread is a perfect examples at how easily manipulated you all are. We have a word for this: reactionary.

 

[bfdd]

The German embassy is close to downtown and the American one was way out on the highway
Most of these hardliners blame Imperialism from the West for the shape of their country
So I would say one of them threw the match.


Germany just banned Terry Jones and is considering banning the film.
I'm waiting for the calls here to nuke Berlin, you know for insulting American freedom

That's a horrible excuse Earl and you know it.

Also, Germany can do what they like in their nation. As these people are welcome to do what they like in regards to censorship. We will not censor it though and we should not stand by when people are being violent. Earl do you not have issue with the overrunning of our Embassy in Egypt and the taking of OUR property and its desecration? You don't think that they were extremely in the wrong for that? Mind you I'm all for flag burning, as long as the flag is your property.

Mind you as well, I don't want to take military action for any of this non-sense. I few it as non-sense and easily correctable through stopping further intervention and pulling back from all of our current intervention. I want American Representatives out of those countries, if Americans decide to go to those places by themselves, they will be by themselves. Don't take this for isolationism either, I simply just don't want the presence there. Lets do business from a far and stop giving such a shit.

 

[Steeplerot]

Lets do business from a far and stop giving such a shit.

Problem is this is a big excuse for them to be pissed, religion is a excuse also of course, maybe we should see why they are so pissed about neo-liberal economics and imperialism.

Countries that have workers that have decent wages and educated (in other words NOT a US banana republic) are not as fundamentalist.

Fundamentalism of all stripes is a reaction to a dysfunctional society that keeps it's people ignorant this can be advantageous for a number of reasons, lets be honest on a realpolitik level.

But then right wingers never want to think of things this way, it always has to be some moral crusade and everyone elses fault. You cannot question the USA's "best interests" (IE the ruling elites) because isnt it blessed by god and grandma and the founding fathers having a budweiser with jesus in the hotub while writing the constitution?

Like I said, same difference, the problem is fundamentalist mindsets which are not in any way exclusive to one religion.

 

[bfdd]

Doesent matter what you call it, "common sense values" "traditional values" "conservative tradition" "jihad" its all the same moral crusading douchebaggery that leads people to dehumanize others, in the long run dividing the working class against one another through religion. The oldest game in the book, and right wingers will happily jump on the hate wagon whatever vehicle gets you there.

This thread is a perfect examples at how easily manipulated you all are. We have a word for this: reactionary.

Uh... I don't believe in "common sense" or any of that. I also believe morals exist on a moving line that exists in different spots from person to person. Also, I quite understand all the "dehumanizing" or being "marginalized" seeing as I hold vastly extreme positions in certain things that are WAY different than the "norm" especially for American society.

Don't disagree with you Steeplerot, but I'm not a socialist who believes we should use the "good" of Government to educate the masses because what constitutes "Government" is the masses or at least those who wish to manipulate them. It's really a tough spot and why I'm for a more hands off approach. Lead by example and if that doesn't work have a shit load of weapons so if they come after you, they'll regret the thought even occurred.

 

[OCGuy]

I'm waiting for the calls here to nuke Berlin, you know for insulting American freedom

Let me know when that happens. If the Germans were to storm our embassy and kill diplomats, then that reaction would be justified. Merely banning free speech, which they already do, is not a reason to harm them.

 

[Steeplerot]

Uh... I don't believe in "common sense" or any of that. I also believe morals exist on a moving line that exists in different spots from person to person. Also, I quite understand all the "dehumanizing" or being "marginalized" seeing as I hold vastly extreme positions in certain things that are WAY different than the "norm" especially for American society.

Don't disagree with you Steeplerot, but I'm not a socialist who believes we should use the "good" of Government to educate the masses because what constitutes "Government" is the masses or at least those who wish to manipulate them. .

I do not think this either, nor does any actual Socialist writer say this I study. Government and corporations are tools people created. All of them power structures created on the backs of the working classes throughout history from the pharohs of egypt to the banksters of today buying out democracy.

Such a economic notion as you put forward makes no sense. How would one even argue such nonsense in reality. I suggest reading some libertarian works (and not this 1950s get rich quick if we kiss ass to the elites cult neo-liberal stuff and austrian crap -in other words stay away from economic and social pseudoscience) If shit sounds too good to be true, its not.

 

[piasabird]

Maybe we need some prophet toilet paper.

 

[bfdd]

I do not think this either, nor does any actual Socialist writer say this I study. Government and corporations are tools people created. All of them power structures created on the backs of the working classes throughout history from the pharohs of egypt to the banksters of today buying out democracy.

Such a economic notion as you put forward makes no sense. How would one even argue such nonsense in reality. I suggest reading some libertarian works (and not this 1950s wanna-be get rich quick if we kiss ass to the elites cult neo-liberal stuff)

Most the stuff I read comes from the 1600's to the late 1800's. Also, if you'd ever like to have more indepth discussions I've always offered to talk to you in PM. I'm not quite sure what you mean by such an economic notion etc etc. But whatevs.

Also, I'll share one of the crazy ideals I hold. I believe the "right to life" is a fallacy and that its constant pimping here in the USA has been detrimental towards our society. This belief also fucks with a ton of the "Libertarian"-like beliefs I hold. Also, I don't simply just read Western writings. I am big into reading Eastern(mostly Chinese) writings as well.

 

[Steeplerot]

Most the stuff I read comes from the 1600's to the late 1800's. Also, if you'd ever like to have more indepth discussions I've always offered to talk to you in PM. I'm not quite sure what you mean by such an economic notion etc etc. But whatevs.

Also, I'll share one of the crazy ideals I hold. I believe the "right to life" is a fallacy and that it's constant pimping here in the USA has been detrimental towards our society.

If you are a fan of Adam Smith, you pretty much primed for Das Kapital from Engels -Marx. (I do not like Marx's utopian drinking days stuff like Manifesto)


Silly how so many "capitalists" never even read the book that coined the term itself. =P

 

[bfdd]

I've read parts of Das Kapital and I have read a bit on Engels. Wasn't jhe the one of the first to pimp the idea of using public education, the right to education, to indoctrinate the masses into Communism? TBH I don't follow socialist or communist tendencies because I find them lacking for me personally. I also don't prescribe to the individualist vs collectivist non-sense. A strong individual helps build a strong collective. Western ideologies imo would go far to adopt certain parts of Taoism and the concept of Yin and Yang. Especially in todays "quantum" era.

 

[Steeplerot]

I've read parts of Das Kapital and I have read a bit on Engels. Wasn't jhe the one of the first to pimp the idea of using public education, the right to education, to indoctrinate the masses into Communism?

He was saying that by educating workers they can realize their own self interests and better assert themselves on a equal level. He is correct also. Education is the key. If you are for example in a foreign city it is hard not to be ripped off, as you do not speak the language and may not understand currency exchanges or the finer details of a contract. (my apologies for poor analogy I am going from the top of my head from DK)

Really I read Engels as basically a anti-trust framework. It's not really anything controversial in the modern world of labor disputes.

The whole "communism" rhetoric was a way of gathering an idea to words, it was crazy folks like Lenin decades later who took the concept of "dictatorship of the proletariat" to mean big government.

Even Marx said this is not what it is about. (Which is where the quote from Marx comes in: "If this is Marxism then I am no Marxist!")

Now, if you would like to criticize Marx and Engels from a traditional Socialist standpoint back then (1850s-60s) I would recommend Bakunin, he was their nemesis. (the libertarian socialist wing)

Marx and Engels scientific studies of dialectical materialism is still relevant, moreso then ever actually.

The whole philosophical rants in Manifesto about "workers uniting under a tyranny of democracy" sounds like he came up with it while studying the finer aspects of social sciences drinking vast quantities of wine while having a few ladies on his lap at about 3 am. But then..that's Comrade Karl for ya.

This is from a few years back, but I think old Marx would dig it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivjuAPs9pYA

 

[Orignal Earl]

Let me know when that happens. If the Germans were to storm our embassy and kill diplomats, then that reaction would be justified. Merely banning free speech, which they already do, is not a reason to harm them.

We just got done blowing the hell out of Libya
That's where your ambassador was killed right?

And no, your wrong..when an ambassador gets killed, they find the killers and bring them to justice.
No nukes are used

 

[Incorruptible]

We just got done blowing the hell out of Libya
That's where your ambassador was killed right?

And no, your wrong..when an ambassador gets killed, they find the killers and bring them to justice.
No nukes are used

But the killers are Muslim so obama would prefer not to go after them, he`ll be forced to but he wont like it

 

[bfdd]

Steeplerot, you're right I shouldn't be throwing around the term "communism" like I am, to much lumping together without any real definition. I also agree education is the key, my problem is with the socialist approach to it. I don't believe it should be organized, at least not in the way we currently do it. I'll check out Bakunin.

TBH a better understanding of my beliefs would be seen in The Law. I'm also a leaning Voluntaryist, though again they believe in a "right to life" which flies in the face of what I believe.

 

[OCGuy]

We just got done blowing the hell out of Libya
That's where your ambassador was killed right?

And no, your wrong..when an ambassador gets killed, they find the killers and bring them to justice.
No nukes are used

Using nukes wouldnt be justified, the reaction on a public internet forum where everyone vents and goes over the top would be. Jesus you think I meant that?

The Liberals wanted us in Libya because of what was about to happen to the civilians there. They were about to be crushed due to an Islamic uprising in their name.

I was not for intervention in Libya, not because Obama is president, but because it further weakens our military against the real threats out there (China, Russia, NK). Also we cannot get involved in every single civil war, even if civilians are being murdered. We just can't.

 

[bfdd]

OCGuy, I was against Libya intervention before being against intervention was cool. Pretty sure I was called a cold hearted bastard for not wanting to help in an uprising we knew little to nothing about, trying to overthrow our newest friend and ally in the region who had been helping to fight the very enemies we have so many troops in the region for anyways. Oh lawdy was that a bunch of bs. USA needs to have non-interventionist policies and if our Presidents actually look at the history of their position, they'd be taking one as well. Washington was all about non-interventionism, though in all fairness he did wish he had a huge navy to stomp out the Muslim countries that kept fucking with trade ships from the Americas. Not very many people know that the USA was basically paying ransom to a few nations that existed back then over it.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Jesus you think I meant that?

How am I supposed to know?
We got lot's of the JihadWatch brown shirts here ready to start the deportations of Muslims and nuking Mecca
We got office's full of people giggling about the ambassador

 

[bfdd]

How am I supposed to know?
We got lot's of the JihadWatch brown shirts here ready to start the deportations of Muslims and nuking Mecca
We got office's full of people giggling about the ambassador

In all honesty Earl, you and those that get labeled "sympathizers" are much quicker to jump the gun in saying such things about the very people who you think say or believe in such shit, than I see it actually coming from them. Maybe you have a little to much disdain in your heart?

 

[Orignal Earl]

In all honesty Earl, you and those that get labeled "sympathizers" are much quicker to jump the gun in saying such things about the very people who you think say or believe in such shit, than I see it actually coming from them. Maybe you have a little to much disdain in your heart?

You show me where I have posted out of the blue.
The only time I post is when the brownshirts posts have reached critical mass
How can I be jumping the gun?

No what your seeing is a hundred hysterical posts and then my one post that just sticks out

Edit- You know, you sitting there, getting all philosophical on how much disdain I got in my heart
That does kind of piss me off coming from the guy who said some quite horrible things while I was in the hospital

 

[bfdd]

You show me where I have posted out of the blue.
The only time I post is when the brownshirts posts have reached critical mass
How can I be jumping the gun?

No what your seeing is a hundred hysterical posts and then my one post that just sticks out

Possibly, but I do notice more often than not you're going off on some person or people making a retarded post about nuking the region when hardly such posts even register. Maybe I just don't see them because I mentally block out the retardation, but I'll look harder next time I guess.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Possibly, but I do notice more often than not you're going off on some person or people making a retarded post about nuking the region when hardly such posts even register. Maybe I just don't see them because I mentally block out the retardation, but I'll look harder next time I guess.

Don't miss my edit too