More problems for the Ohio GOP

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Ohio GOP is kinda having a rough time of it these last couple of months. But, like a good GOP, he won't take responsibility or show character and step down. I guess this is just more of the "Ownership" society that Bush is promoting.

If some or even all of the GOP members are not as honest as we want (assuming anything you are reporting is true) it is because some have felt (I disagree) that they have had to stoop to the level of the Democrats.
Silly, moot, irrelevant argument.

I'm still hoping that we never stoop to disenfranchising voters and fixing ballots as the Democrats have done for over 50 years.
Too late. They have been doing this already.


If true, and if it was illegal (there may be an amount below which it is legal) why would you jump on this yet defend President Clinton when he takes hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Chinese? Perhaps you didn't defend Clinton and are not being hypocritical.

But, but, but Clinton....

It is illegal to accept ANY gift over $75 per Ohio law. He accepted THOUSANDS. Maybe math isn't your strongpoint?

[/quote]


My math is exellent. obviously your reading comprehension is lacking. Go back and reread what I said. You copied it so read it.

Now, let me go over the OP's post.

Gov. Bob Taft will face misdemeanor charges for not reporting golf outings paid for by others, a prosecutor said Wednesday.

He had announced the problems involving reporting of golf outings in June but said any errors were inadvertent.

Taft released records August 5 that showed he accepted invitations to 21 golf outings since 1999. They included a 2001 outing with Noe.

The records released earlier this month did not indicate who paid for the outings.

Some partners have said Taft paid for the golf; others have said they picked up the tab.

Ok, IF as you said an outing of golf in Ohio costs

THOUSANDS

of dollars then he absolutely broke the law and should be punished. If an outing of golf costs less than or equal to $75 then he didn't break the law. But, I know you wouldn't lie so I will assume you are correct and that golf in Ohio can only be played by the very, very rich. Wow, thusands of dollars per person for one outing. Anyone else want to join me in building a golf course in Ohio?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: berserker
Yes, yes, keep telling yourselves that the GOP is dying, corrupt, morally bankrupt, and whatever else makes you sleep well at night. We'll just keep winning elections and running the country.

I shouldn't do this, but how about some advice: why don't you Democrats concentrate on yourselves and determine why you are not in power? Ask yourselves why voters reject your candidates. Look inwards, not outwards at the GOP.

No, taft should resign and take delay with him. There is no reason to become a loser party like the Dems.

I like it. Republicans starting to turn on Republicans.

I didn't post it and seems that nobobdy else did either yesterday that former Republican Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott of Mississippi is calling Bill Frist a Traitor to him.

What would be your comment on such an article? Would you take a side with either Frist or Lott? Must be painful.

I posted the article on freerepublic. Everyone hates Lott, he was a worse SML than Wimpy Fristie. He repeatedly backstabbed the party in the '90s.

Lott is the traitor. Frist is the fool. With the Dems on the bring of nothingness and soon to be defunct in 06 the greatest threat to progress and reform now comes from within the Party. We need to get rid of the rinos and fools and put in real republicans.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Ok, IF as you said an outing of golf in Ohio costs

THOUSANDS

of dollars then he absolutely broke the law and should be punished. If an outing of golf costs less than or equal to $75 then he didn't break the law. But, I know you wouldn't lie so I will assume you are correct and that golf in Ohio can only be played by the very, very rich. Wow, thusands of dollars per person for one outing. Anyone else want to join me in building a golf course in Ohio?

Dude, maybe you should do at least a bit of research before you go to the lengths you did in drafting this post.

From The Toledo Blade's coverage of his no-contest plea:

Gov. Taft exluded 52 golf outings, meals, and hockey tickets worth a
combined $6,000 from his annual financial disclosures with the Ohio
Ethics Commission.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Ok, IF as you said an outing of golf in Ohio costs

THOUSANDS

of dollars then he absolutely broke the law and should be punished. If an outing of golf costs less than or equal to $75 then he didn't break the law. But, I know you wouldn't lie so I will assume you are correct and that golf in Ohio can only be played by the very, very rich. Wow, thusands of dollars per person for one outing. Anyone else want to join me in building a golf course in Ohio?

I'm sorry. I forgot that the Govenor of the state and some of the largest lobbyists and donors are playing the muni courses. My bad. I should have known that one of the most prestigeous country clubs in the nation (Inverness Country Club - host to 4 U.S. Open's, U.S. Amatuer's Open, 2 PGA Championships and the U.S. Senior's Open) would just allow walk-ons for pennies.

Ironically.....

? Randall A. Fischer resigned as director of the Ohio School Facilities Commission in July 2002. He pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors for accepting free rounds of golf, hockey tickets and meals from contractors to whom he awarded unbid contracts worth millions.

? Former Consumers? Counsel Robert S. Tongren quit in November 2003 after an investigation found he accepted dozens of expensive golf outings and meals from utility lobbyists. He admitted to four misdemeanors.

? When a probe in September 2003 showed that Richard P. Frenette, manager of the state fair, and other employees improperly accepted golf passes and other favors from vendors doing business with the fair, Taft called on the Ohio Expositions Commission to "take prompt and appropriate action." Frenette quit two days later.

? Taft issued a quit-or-be-fired ultimatum in August 2002 to Gino Zomparelli, director of the Ohio Turnpike Commission, the day after a probe found he and 30 other turnpike officials were showered with golf outings, free meals and sports tickets by companies doing business with the agency. Zomparelli quit the next day.

Can you say hypocrit boys and girls? I'm betting the righties can't.

 

[MisterCornell]

He was tried and convicted this afternoon ($4000 fine, which seems reasonable). That's some swift justice in Ohio!

Bob Taft absolutely should be convicted of another crime: being a dumbass and running the state's economy into the ground with higher taxes and spending, in a state that already had too high taxes and spending. If that's not on the books, it should be.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Turncoat ?

Didn't you flee to Canada ?

I have never seen you take part in a legitimate discussion, only attacking those who post to stroke your self serving ego.

This thread is about GOP corruption in Ohio, and the fact is that the Governor HAS BEEN INDICTED.
There is also evidence that others in the GOP have in fact conspired to defraud the citizens of the state.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm having fun watching the Black Population of Dallas, along with a couple of Dallas City Council Members, who are either on release from
prison pending an appeal, under criminal investigaton, or awaiting sentencing for their Corruption Convictions threatening to play the
race card and saying to the Democrat Mayer Laura Miller, that they want to trigger a riot that will make the Watts Riots pale in comparison.
Read all about it

I thought you libs were the ones threatening to flee to Canada - after the thaw. Reality check - it's August and you haven't left yet?

I've said it before, why would I add to the cut and paste jam that you call research?

 

[CaptnKirk]

I've said it before, why would I add to the cut and paste jam that you call research?


You shouldn't - just crawl back in your hole and go away.

It's obvious that your only goal in these forums in to be a mouthpeice for agenda, and attack each messanger - instead of addressing any subject with thought.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: MisterCornell
He was tried and convicted this afternoon ($4000 fine, which seems reasonable). That's some swift justice in Ohio!

Bob Taft absolutely should be convicted of another crime: being a dumbass and running the state's economy into the ground with higher taxes and spending, in a state that already had too high taxes and spending. If that's not on the books, it should be.

someone said he took 52 gifts "valued" at $6,000 or about $115 per outting. Assuming not all outtings were over $75 then not all were illegal. Considering the $40 difference between legal and illegal I can see where he MIGHT not have realized he was breaking the law.

(Edited to add this paragraph He was found guilty and that is all I need to know. I only hope the fine was correct. Perhaps it was too high and perhaps it was too low. While his actions might have been inconsequential conservatives and liberals both hold conservatives to a higher standard. So, he should be punished more severely than a liberal.

Don't most golf courses allow a limited number guests to play free? So if it would cost you or I $100 to play a round then some might call it a $100 gift even if it cost nothing. I know the Government would. (If you are caught with, for instance, a pound of Marijuana the IRS will do your taxes for you and estimate the value based on selling it one joint at a time. Which, of course, inflates the value)

The moral here is that if you are a politician you should ALWAYS insist on paying your own way to avoid this. However, as we have seen, even if the actiivity is free the smear becomes due to association so conservative politicians really can't do anything.

For the poster who said something like "imagine that Republicans turning on Republicans." Well, you are both right and wrong. Republicans didn't turn on Republicans instead Republicans waited to see all the evidence and look at both sides then turned on a law breaker. What do you suppose would have happened to President Clinton and VP Al Gore for taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Chinese. Several times, had the Democrats also wanted to turn on a law breaker?

Another example. Two presidents, in my lifetime, have been found to be obstructing justice. President Nixon and President Clinton. Nixon voluntarily stepped down. Clinton drug the nation through an impeachment with the Democrats still defending his actions. See the difference?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: MisterCornell
He was tried and convicted this afternoon ($4000 fine, which seems reasonable). That's some swift justice in Ohio!

Bob Taft absolutely should be convicted of another crime: being a dumbass and running the state's economy into the ground with higher taxes and spending, in a state that already had too high taxes and spending. If that's not on the books, it should be.

someone said he took 52 gifts "valued" at $6,000 or about $115 per outting. Assuming not all outtings were over $75 then not all were illegal. Considering the $40 difference between legal and illegal I can see where he MIGHT not have realized he was breaking the law.

(Edited to add this paragraph He was found guilty and that is all I need to know. I only hope the fine was correct. Perhaps it was too high and perhaps it was too low. While his actions might have been inconsequential conservatives and liberals both hold conservatives to a higher standard. So, he should be punished more severely than a liberal.

Don't most golf courses allow a limited number guests to play free? So if it would cost you or I $100 to play a round then some might call it a $100 gift even if it cost nothing. I know the Government would. (If you are caught with, for instance, a pound of Marijuana the IRS will do your taxes for you and estimate the value based on selling it one joint at a time. Which, of course, inflates the value)

The moral here is that if you are a politician you should ALWAYS insist on paying your own way to avoid this. However, as we have seen, even if the actiivity is free the smear becomes due to association so conservative politicians really can't do anything.

For the poster who said something like "imagine that Republicans turning on Republicans." Well, you are both right and wrong. Republicans didn't turn on Republicans instead Republicans waited to see all the evidence and look at both sides then turned on a law breaker. What do you suppose would have happened to President Clinton and VP Al Gore for taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Chinese. Several times, had the Democrats also wanted to turn on a law breaker?

Another example. Two presidents, in my lifetime, have been found to be obstructing justice. President Nixon and President Clinton. Nixon voluntarily stepped down. Clinton drug the nation through an impeachment with the Democrats still defending his actions. See the difference?

First off, see my earlier post where Gov. Taft is telling someone else, probably a Dem, that they had better resign or be fired for....drumroll please....ACCEPTING GOLF OUTINGS AS GIFTS!!! So any defense you might have of him is pure party loyalty because he beileves that it is such a horrible thing when someone else was doing it to force them to resign but won't do the same when he is the one found guilty of the very same offense.

Nixon v. Clinton. Apples and oranges. Nixon was found to have architected a plan that included B&E to spy on the opposition. Clinton, after years of investigations to nowhere was asked about a PERSONAL matter under oath and lied to save his ass. Was he wrong. Absolutely. Is it on the same level as Nixon, as you are implying, not a chance in hell.

Maybe you should keep bringing to light the Iran-Contra investigations as much as you do Clinton. Let us know why Reagan is still the deity that the right holds him to be since he committed crimes that are Nixon+Clinton to the Nth degree.

Edit to address your edit:

(Edited to add this paragraph He was found guilty and that is all I need to know. I only hope the fine was correct. Perhaps it was too high and perhaps it was too low. While his actions might have been inconsequential conservatives and liberals both hold conservatives to a higher standard. So, he should be punished more severely than a liberal.

Conservatives are appeared to be held to a higher standard because of the hypocrisy displayed in which they claim to be the "morally righteous" members of the political spectrum and then turn around and do things that are unethical, immoral or outright illegal.

You can't have it both ways. Either you STFU about claiming your moral superiority or you stop doing things that show you to be the hypocrit that you are. Plain and simple.

 

[chowderhead]

not to be outdone:
Kentucky Governor pardons all but himself in personnel investigatio

FRANKFORT, Ky. -- Gov. Ernie Fletcher on Monday granted blanket pardons to everyone who has been or might be charged in the investigation of violations of personnel laws in his administration but said he would not pardon himself.

disgraceful. The Democrats need to step up and nationalize the 2006 election against Republican corruption and sleeze.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: chowderhead
not to be outdone:
Kentucky Governor pardons all but himself in personnel investigatio

FRANKFORT, Ky. -- Gov. Ernie Fletcher on Monday granted blanket pardons to everyone who has been or might be charged in the investigation of violations of personnel laws in his administration but said he would not pardon himself.

disgraceful. The Democrats need to step up and nationalize the 2006 election against Republican corruption and sleeze.

I listened to the mudslinging on the radio yesterday over some of this and it was rough. The republicans were calling the Democrats hyprocrits because they said that the dems did the same thing. Regardless, if it's the law, it's wrong if both side broke it.

Anyway, sorta funny that he can pardon all those that have done this in his administration with no consequence. If he pardoned them, I guess he assumed they were "guilty"?

 

[Moonbeam]

We really do live at the beginning of an age where the capacity to think critically has degenerated to the point where politicians can make complete criminals of themselves in public and parade around with a smile knowing the imbeciles they represent will do and can do nothing.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We really do live at the beginning of an age where the capacity to think critically has degenerated to the point where politicians can make complete criminals of themselves in public and parade around with a smile knowing the imbeciles they represent will do and can do nothing.

:thumbsup:

BINGO!

 

[Engineer]

After reading the Fletcher article (KY), I'm curious to what checks and balances, if any, are available to stop this sort of corruption, short of impeachment?

This seems crazy that he can simply pardon those 9 people, some with 22 felony indictments, and just let them walk away.

And I don't mean because he's a Republican, I would say absolutely the same about a Democrat or Independant. It seems that there is far too much power in the pardon on this one....crazy!!!

 

[EagleKeeper]

The pardon was originally intended to erase wrongdoings from ones record after they had served some punishment even if it was minimal (act of being punished)

Then it became a way to avoid punishment when one did something at the request of political connections with "good" intentions

And finally it has become a way to reward the faithful when they have done supposed wrong doing.

 

[conjur]

Gosh, I love my state.

:roll:


Watching that pathetic news conference today was sickening. The local station covering it eventually cut away, thankfully.

Guess he figures if the Propagandist, DeLay, Abramoff, Taft, Cunningham, Lay, etc. get away with crap, why not him?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Engineer
After reading the Fletcher article (KY), I'm curious to what checks and balances, if any, are available to stop this sort of corruption, short of impeachment?

This seems crazy that he can simply pardon those 9 people, some with 22 felony indictments, and just let them walk away.

And I don't mean because he's a Republican, I would say absolutely the same about a Democrat or Independant. It seems that there is far too much power in the pardon on this one....crazy!!!

It's part of his power as governor I assume. Exercising his power is a legitemate action as governor.

As I recall Clinton used it quite a few times at the end of his presidency.

If you don't like it, get the Constitution changed.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Engineer
After reading the Fletcher article (KY), I'm curious to what checks and balances, if any, are available to stop this sort of corruption, short of impeachment?

This seems crazy that he can simply pardon those 9 people, some with 22 felony indictments, and just let them walk away.

And I don't mean because he's a Republican, I would say absolutely the same about a Democrat or Independant. It seems that there is far too much power in the pardon on this one....crazy!!!

It's part of his power as governor I assume. Exercising his power is a legitemate action as governor.

As I recall Clinton used it quite a few times at the end of his presidency.

If you don't like it, get the Constitution changed.

While Clinton may have used it, which is entirely irrelevant in this case, it doesn't explain how (or why) a sitting governor (of my state - so I can indeed write my reps and complain about it) can pardon his own administration "BEFORE" they've even been convicted. If you read the article, he even pardoned people who would be indicted in the future for involvement in this case.

Are you for pardoning those who "may" have committed a crime even before they are brought toward the court system?

Edit: On the way to work, I started thinking "Why does anyone have the pardon power at all?" Why is it OK for one person to throw out what a judge/jury OK'ed? There are appeals to handle the Judicial system, so why should the executive branch be OK to override them so easily (including Clinton just in case you bring that up!)

 

[conjur]

Today, in a 2 min. 18 sec. session, Ky. Gov. Ernie Fletcher pled the 5th Amendment.


Fvcking POS needs to be impeached...NOW!

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: conjur
Today, in a 2 min. 18 sec. session, Ky. Gov. Ernie Fletcher pled the 5th Amendment.


Fvcking POS needs to be impeached...NOW!

If nothing was comitted, why the pardons and the 5th? Something smells like crap in Frankfort (DC too for that matter).

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: conjur
Today, in a 2 min. 18 sec. session, Ky. Gov. Ernie Fletcher pled the 5th Amendment.


Fvcking POS needs to be impeached...NOW!

Update on KY: He pardoned them all, watched his support drop through the floor, and now has asked them all to resign in an attempt to save face. They can now leave without fear of being charged. Not suprising.

 

[conjur]

And Ernie will come out smelling like a tainted rose.

Oh, he did ask the head of the KY GOP to step down, too.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Are you for pardoning those who "may" have committed a crime even before they are brought toward the court system?

Edit: On the way to work, I started thinking "Why does anyone have the pardon power at all?" Why is it OK for one person to throw out what a judge/jury OK'ed? There are appeals to handle the Judicial system, so why should the executive branch be OK to override them so easily (including Clinton just in case you bring that up!)

Absolutely. Wasn't Nixon given a pre-emptive pardon?

Why does the president have this power? Because the Constitution says so. It is part of checks and balances, if you believe in such a thing. Are you saying you don't believe in the founding fathers who implemented such a provision?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Engineer
Are you for pardoning those who "may" have committed a crime even before they are brought toward the court system?

Edit: On the way to work, I started thinking "Why does anyone have the pardon power at all?" Why is it OK for one person to throw out what a judge/jury OK'ed? There are appeals to handle the Judicial system, so why should the executive branch be OK to override them so easily (including Clinton just in case you bring that up!)

Absolutely. Wasn't Nixon given a pre-emptive pardon?

Why does the president have this power? Because the Constitution says so. It is part of checks and balances, if you believe in such a thing. Are you saying you don't believe in the founding fathers who implemented such a provision?

Well, I don't know if I believe in it or not. I'm not sure that they envisioned pardoning criminals (would be criminals) before they had their day in court or not. I guess repercussions could occur if, for example, I shot and killed someone and the governor granted a pardon to me before the trial. Seems like too much power to have. Also, seems the KY governor has the power to pardon himself? WTF is that for abuse of power and check/balances?

And yes, I do believe in checks/balances, hence why I question the pardon power to begin with, thank you very much!

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Condor
Incredulous! A Clinton lover boy criticizing anyone for not taking responsibility is just tooo much!

I am still looking for a law that says you can't get a BJ.

Thou shalt not commit adultry doesn't count though, this isn't fantasy land.