You are hung up on this monopoly thing, yes anyone who has sat through a week of high school economics knows monopoly = bad. The point I am making is that you have to walk a very thin line when giving governmental control over private industry. Private industry and free trade are the most important factors in keeping us a free democratic society, backsliding off these liberties is a very quick dive into socialism. So while you are correct, this is just an area we as americans need to stand against when it comes time. Give up a little monetary comfort for the sake of a better country for tomorrow.
You are hung up on this monopoly thing, yes anyone who has sat through a week of high school economics knows monopoly = bad. The point I am making is that you have to walk a very thin line when giving governmental control over private industry. Private industry and free trade are the most important factors in keeping us a free democratic society, backsliding off these liberties is a very quick dive into socialism. So while you are correct, this is just an area we as americans need to stand against when it comes time. Give up a little monetary comfort for the sake of a better country for tomorrow.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 142
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To quote my microecon professor (from 2001) Dr.Reese: "The argument that blue collar jobs lost overseas is not valid. It forces the people who have lost their jobs here to eventually learn new skills which raises the overall standard of living of a country."
Programmers may not be considered blue collar (yet), but look at our education system! Eventually our kids will need PhD's to compete, the standard of living of education has gone up every generation. It's common knowledge that in today's job market you will need a Master's to stand out from the competition, as well as years of experience.
Outsourcing is all part of the evolution process.
Originally posted by: LAUST
IBM to Move Software Jobs to India, China My buddy up in IBM Boulder is gonna be losing his job
With more and more companies doing this "offshoring" what is going to happen to our economy? I mean, more jobs gone from the US means less people here with money, so less products they can buy from the companies that offshore and more. Sounds like a horrible downward spiral to me.
12-15-03 IBM shifts 4,730 HIGHLY Paid Jobs to India & China
Sorry about your friends job but the AT Experts in here say that he can go down to the local Wal-Mart, get a job and his wages will actually go UP! The AT Experts in P&N swear it is only LOW paying, UNskilled jobs going overseas and that we all must adapt or die. Adapt to stocking shelves and flipping burgers and that is the greatest thing for the U.S. Economy and the New American Dream and Rich. That's a UPward spiral, read for yourself in the thread as said by the AT Economy experts.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
I merely was illustrating that at times government not only has, but should, influence how the private sector functions. This may be one of those cases.
Easier said than done. A great many jobs that require not manual labor, but one's brain (an office job) can be outsourced. Damn near anything can be.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 142
- 106
Software is a footloose industry, I agree. It depends on the industry, though. In many industries workers will obtain a knowledge base which renders them virtually irreplacable. For example, where I work, it would take an Indian at least 2 years to be at my knowledge base, since I work for the military. We develop custom apps that require extensive knowledge of our "system" and how the whole workflow process operates.
Many times, a programmer is hired for a certain task and then dumped. The company views this person as expendable, and the worker had better be aware of this.
Working for IBM/Dell/X,Y,Z corporation, there's no barrier to entry (like the defense industry where you have to be a citizen of the US for x years) so the worker has to be aware that they are expendable, and prepare for it. Preparing = constantly upgrading their resume/learning new skills.
So people today *must* suffer for the good of tommorow and that is just in your eyes? also with re. blue collar and programmers, sorry but when I think blue collar I think manual labor and as someone pointed out above chances of that work going overseas is zero simply because you need people onsite to perform those tasks (Janitors, Mechanics, Support Technicians...etc)..IMHO it is unfortunate that you *need* at least a masters these days to earn a livable wage in some areas as attaining that degree, unless you already work for a company that provides tuition reimbursement, is rather costly and for many cost prohibitive, I know I would love to go and get my masters degree but cannot justify the expense at this juncture....
I think that while immediately it is the most cost effective solution, ultimately people who are more educated and refined will get annoyed with the lackluster service they are recieving and eventually complain to the point where either the work is brought back or levels are brought up overseas...even today there are many complaints with companies that outsource their help centers overseas....
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 142
- 106
The quote by Dr.Reese was in reference to the manufacturing sector being outsourced overseas when our country transitioned to a service economy. So yes, you have to suffer today in order to be better as a whole in a year or so (change is good) if you want to look at it that way. For instance, why couldn't a programmer shift horizontally to a field where there is more demand (Oracle DBA/Administrators/Developers)? To think that just because you are a programmer and white collar, it will guarantee you job security is absurd.
I don't think it's unfortunate that you need a Master's degree, it makes everyone better. You can tell me until you're blue in the face that India has PhD's graduating, but at what RATE compared to the United States? We have a higher standard of living and have a much larger percentage of our workforce with higher education degrees. Of course India will narrow the gap, but do you know how long that will take before they catch up to our overall education level? 10 years? 20 years? We are talking about our kids' generation, that countries like India will have enough institutions in place to compete with the United States educationally. India is too far behind this generation to even be a threat, and is at least one full generation behind. To complain that 5% of our IT Sector is being outsourced is whiny IMO.
well some jobs leave and some jobs come back. I hope this will make some of you feel a little better.
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/business/7497091.htm
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/business/7497091.htm
You have got to be kidding me. Walmart is just plain cheap it has NO QUALITY what so ever. I give walmart 2 more years before it will either have to change or go out of business. Selling to trailer trash does not carry a company very far. Most of the people I know have moved on to target or something better and no they are not rich either.
The greatest trick the conservatives ever pulled was to convince working people that the Republican Party actually cares about them.
"The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is, the Repubs have BAD idea's, the Demo's have NO idea's" 
Last edited:
Yep, ......we had just switched over to IBM laptops here at work because of their tech support. Goodbye IBM.
Thats got to be the winner for stupidest comment of the day
the part you are missing is, with all the jobs leaving the US, there will be a surge in the number of people that reside in the "trailer trash" tax bracket. More customers = less business? I don't think so.
I urge everyone here that is concerned to please contact IBM about this with your comments. Link provided below. Thank you.
https://www.ibm.com/contact/us/en/query
https://www.ibm.com/contact/us/en/query
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
- 3
- 81
Thanks for the silver lining.
I think in many cases, the outsourcing will not be nearly as effective as some of these companies think. I know in my case, the kind of software development I do is so specific to our plant's processes and systems, that it would be virtually impossible to develop software for us from some other country. So I think in many cases, this outsourced work will not be good enough and some of these companies may change their minds. Or at least that's what I keep telling myself.
Only a small number of products are cheaper at walmart and that to not by a huge margin. Second not only is their stuff cheap in price but also cheap in quality. A small number of us do descriminate between quality of products and service. Walmart has neither of those two. Walmart is bound to go out of business.
I said 2 years and I hightly doubt that most of American middleclass will be living in trailer parks in 2 years. Walmart has very little to offer except cheap prices. How can you survive when you don't even give the customers an option to buy a better quality product(regardless of price).
"...not only is their stuff cheap in price but also cheap in quality. A small number of us do descriminate between quality of products..."
Lord knows when I buy a Stanley hammer from Walmart, it's not as good as the Stanley hammer from the local hardware store.
Lord knows when I buy a Stanley hammer from Walmart, it's not as good as the Stanley hammer from the local hardware store.
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