More information about the fired U.S. attorney's

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Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: Shivetya
shocker, firing attorneys is the right of every adminstration. Remember Clinton and gang fired all of the existing ones when they took over. It was unheralded then and it blew over just like this one will too.
Didn't you get the memo? That lame piece of Rove-ian fluff is already outdated and discredited.
  1. There is hard documentation that the firings were part of a plan going back at least two years for explicitly political reasons.
  2. The documentation proves Bush and Rove were directly involved in the plan.
  3. Gonzales explicitly LIED UNDER OATH to Congress and denied those facts.
That should be enough to have Gonzales fired, and I believe it's yet another impeachable offense by Bush for abuse of his authority for political advantage.

Bush, Rove, Gonzales, Meyers and others have been proven to be up to their eyeballs in a plot to abuse their authority under color of law to pack the office of the U.S. Attorney General with prosecutors tasked to attack their political opponents.

As usual, you're full of bullShivetya. :laugh:
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
No President in history has fired U.S. attorneys after getting reelected. Then again, no president in history that wasn't facing a split of the Union (Lincoln) has openly violated federal law (NSA wiretapping) nor have their administrations exposed their own covert agents (Plame).

It's sad that the Republican-controlled Congress of the past 3 years was so inept in dealing with the Plame case, purely and utterly for political reasons.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Finally found this thread.

Sundays paper had a story about the NM AG fired. (My paper is a NYT paper, no freind of the Admin either.)

I was surprised to see that:

(1) This AG was a Repub; and

(2) There was undisputed voter fraud, and this AG had basically done nothing, or had no progress after several years in prosecuting it.

As much fuss as many had been making it seemed that the Gonzales was firing Dems?

Since he's a Repub all this stuff about firing at the beginning of the Admin is mostly irelevant. When a Dem takes over form a Repuib or vice-versa we expect firing en mass so that the new Pres puts in AG's of his party etc.

Again, what the heck is all this fuss really about?

Fern
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: Fern
Again, what the heck is all this fuss really about?
It's about Gonzales and others lying to Congress under oath about the facts.

It's about sneaking a provision into the Patriot Act that allowed them to fire honest prosecutors who didn't adhere to the Whitehouse's political agenda to ignore criminal actions by their political allies and pursue their political enemies, regardless of the merits of the case and to bypass Congressional oversight when appointing their toadies as replacements for those they fired.

It's about hard evidence of Bush and Rove's involvement in it, despite their denials.

Any questions? :roll:
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Finally found this thread.

Sundays paper had a story about the NM AG fired. (My paper is a NYT paper, no freind of the Admin either.)

I was surprised to see that:

(1) This AG was a Repub; and

(2) There was undisputed voter fraud, and this AG had basically done nothing, or had no progress after several years in prosecuting it.

As much fuss as many had been making it seemed that the Gonzales was firing Dems?

Since he's a Repub all this stuff about firing at the beginning of the Admin is mostly irelevant. When a Dem takes over form a Repuib or vice-versa we expect firing en mass so that the new Pres puts in AG's of his party etc.

Again, what the heck is all this fuss really about?

Fern

Because regardless of what party they came from, you can't pick and choose who to fire based mostly on what cases they choose to pursue. This is the Dept. of Justice we're talking about here and justice will NOT be served by forcing the DA's to kowtow and only work on the cases the administration wants prosecuted.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
? Washington D.C. defense contractor Mitchell Wade pled guilty last February to paying then-California Rep. Randy ?Duke? Cunningham more than $1 million in bribes.

? Wade?s company MZM Inc. received its first federal contract from the White House. The contract, which ran from July 15 to August 15, 2002, stipulated that Wade be paid $140,000 to ?provide office furniture and computers for Vice President Dick Cheney.?

? Two weeks later, on August 30, 2002, Wade purchased a yacht for $140,000 for Duke Cunningham. The boat?s name was later changed to the ?Duke-Stir.? Said one party to the sale: ?I knew then that somebody was going to go to jail for that?Duke looked at the boat, and Wade bought it ? all in one day. Then they got on the boat and floated away.?

? According to Cunningham?s sentencing memorandum, the purchase price of the boat had been negotiated through a third-party earlier that summer, around the same time the White House contract was signed.

***************************************************

This now points to Cheney somehow being involved, Carol Lam was going to dig deeper into this bribery crap and she was fired for it. This is the "problem" with her that Sampson referred to in one of the emails.

Text


Guys, I don't see how anyone who has read about any of the evidence, more of which comes out every single day, can sit here and claim they "don't know what the fuss is about".

 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: ayabe
? Washington D.C. defense contractor Mitchell Wade pled guilty last February to paying then-California Rep. Randy ?Duke? Cunningham more than $1 million in bribes.

? Wade?s company MZM Inc. received its first federal contract from the White House. The contract, which ran from July 15 to August 15, 2002, stipulated that Wade be paid $140,000 to ?provide office furniture and computers for Vice President Dick Cheney.?

? Two weeks later, on August 30, 2002, Wade purchased a yacht for $140,000 for Duke Cunningham. The boat?s name was later changed to the ?Duke-Stir.? Said one party to the sale: ?I knew then that somebody was going to go to jail for that?Duke looked at the boat, and Wade bought it ? all in one day. Then they got on the boat and floated away.?

? According to Cunningham?s sentencing memorandum, the purchase price of the boat had been negotiated through a third-party earlier that summer, around the same time the White House contract was signed.

***************************************************

This now points to Cheney somehow being involved, Carol Lam was going to dig deeper into this bribery crap and she was fired for it. This is the "problem" with her that Sampson referred to in one of the emails.

Text


Guys, I don't see how anyone who has read about any of the evidence, more of which comes out every single day, can sit here and claim they "don't know what the fuss is about".

The remaining supporters of this Administration aren't interested in the truth, like with Iraq - it's all about 'saving face.'
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: ayabe
Guys, I don't see how anyone who has read about any of the evidence, more of which comes out every single day, can sit here and claim they "don't know what the fuss is about".

I read a NYT newspaper. This is only substantive thing they've reported that I've seen..
I don't read bloggs etc.

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Originally posted by: ayabe
? Washington D.C. defense contractor Mitchell Wade pled guilty last February to paying then-California Rep. Randy ?Duke? Cunningham more than $1 million in bribes.

? Wade?s company MZM Inc. received its first federal contract from the White House. The contract, which ran from July 15 to August 15, 2002, stipulated that Wade be paid $140,000 to ?provide office furniture and computers for Vice President Dick Cheney.?

? Two weeks later, on August 30, 2002, Wade purchased a yacht for $140,000 for Duke Cunningham. The boat?s name was later changed to the ?Duke-Stir.? Said one party to the sale: ?I knew then that somebody was going to go to jail for that?Duke looked at the boat, and Wade bought it ? all in one day. Then they got on the boat and floated away.?

? According to Cunningham?s sentencing memorandum, the purchase price of the boat had been negotiated through a third-party earlier that summer, around the same time the White House contract was signed.

***************************************************

This now points to Cheney somehow being involved, Carol Lam was going to dig deeper into this bribery crap and she was fired for it. This is the "problem" with her that Sampson referred to in one of the emails.

Text


Guys, I don't see how anyone who has read about any of the evidence, more of which comes out every single day, can sit here and claim they "don't know what the fuss is about".

The remaining supporters of this Administration aren't interested in the truth, like with Iraq - it's all about 'saving face.'

WTH does the above have to with AG issue??

I am interested in the FACTS, I'll think for myself and try to figure out TRUTH, thanks very much. You can move along and graze with the rest of the sheeple.

BTW: You've added exactly "zip" to either the subject of "truth" or "facts"
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Shivetya
http://www.suntimes.com/news/laney/302727,CST-EDT-LANEY19.article

Well I think the democrats will not want to dig too deep on these attorneys, it could spoil their party.

Written by "respected" columnist Mary Laney who would never abuse her journalistic privledges. Oh, wait:

Chicago columnist pulls a fast one

LMAO, we can trust her, she's a NeoCon. :laugh:


Not to mention that she appears to be one of those that keep attempting to shoe horn in, "But, Clinton did it too," when it's clear to anyone with an above 50 I.Q. how that and this new scandal have nothing in common.....

Even high ranking Repubicans are angered over this, yet we get tripe like this from Mary Laney and the ShortBus Crew.....

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Well I think the democrats will not want to dig too deep on these attorneys, it could spoil their party.
The author of the article at your link is already a week behind the timeline. She missed a few points I and others have posted several times:
  1. Gonzales and others lied to Congress under oath about the facts in this matter.
  2. The Bushies abused a provision they sneaked into the Patriot Act that allowed them to fire honest prosecutors who didn't adhere to the Whitehouse's political agenda to ignore criminal actions aimed at their political allies like Randy "Duke" Cunningham and pursue actions agains their political enemies, regardless of the actual merits of the case and to bypass Congressional oversight when appointing their toadies as replacements for those they fired.
  3. The e-mails between DOJ and the Whitehouse are hard evidence of Bush and Rove's direct involvement in the firings, despite their denials.
Her entire column is a rehash of all the Bushwhacko denials, dodges and misdirection that have already been discredited. Repeating them in an opinion column doesn't make them anymore true. :roll:
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
The real question is who does a US attorney work for---As a taxpayers we the people ultimately pay their salary with the President appointing any good man or woman. And after confirmation by the senate, under that good person doctrine, they should be turned loose to use their best independent judgments for the American people. With any new incoming President free to retain them or appoint a new team.

Or shall we have those same US attorneys work for the President and become only the servants of the President?

The latter course seems to be a recipe for instant police state and unprecedented in the history of this country.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,999
307
126
No damn wonder we cannot fix corruption in DC. If they try to do their job they get canned. We need a better AG system, one that does not supercede the power of the presidency but leaves the prosecution to act independently. Maybe the prez should run the accusatorial aspect of law enforcement and the congress the prosecutorial side of things. The President always has the pardon card to fix things after the fact.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Shivetya
http://www.suntimes.com/news/laney/302727,CST-EDT-LANEY19.article

Well I think the democrats will not want to dig too deep on these attorneys, it could spoil their party.

Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Well I think the democrats will not want to dig too deep on these attorneys, it could spoil their party.
The author of the article at your link is already a week behind the timeline. She missed a few points I and others have posted several times:
  1. Gonzales and others lied to Congress under oath about the facts in this matter.
  2. The Bushies abused a provision they sneaked into the Patriot Act that allowed them to fire honest prosecutors who didn't adhere to the Whitehouse's political agenda to ignore criminal actions aimed at their political allies like Randy "Duke" Cunningham and pursue actions agains their political enemies, regardless of the actual merits of the case and to bypass Congressional oversight when appointing their toadies as replacements for those they fired.
  3. The e-mails between DOJ and the Whitehouse are hard evidence of Bush and Rove's direct involvement in the firings, despite their denials.
Her entire column is a rehash of all the Bushwhacko denials, dodges and misdirection that have already been discredited. Repeating them in an opinion column doesn't make them anymore true. :roll:

Wow, it's very clear Shivy is paid for what he posts.

No one in their right mind would possibly drum up the nonsense he does from the garbage sources he comes up with.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Partisan crap aside.

America benefits if/when Gonzales is out of office. Having this type of scandal in the AG office is just pathetic.

But, if I put my partisan cap back on....ever since the Patriot Act I wanted this A-hole to get canned. I am soooo looking forward to it!
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
To OrByte,

I still remember the time I felt Ascroft was the absolute pits. But compared to Gonzales, Ascroft was much better. It sure does not make Ascroft any better but it does go to show
that GWB&co. probably has at least 10 people in line waiting to replace Gonzales who might even make Gonzales look good by comparison.

And there is where the advice and consent of the senate comes in---and they should not confirm anyone who does not publically pledge to explain to GWB&co that the US constitution is more than a scrap of paper and specifically prohibits much of the crap GWB&co is doing.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
To OrByte,

I still remember the time I felt Ascroft was the absolute pits. But compared to Gonzales, Ascroft was much better. It sure does not make Ascroft any better but it does go to show
that GWB&co. probably has at least 10 people in line waiting to replace Gonzales who might even make Gonzales look good by comparison.

And there is where the advice and consent of the senate comes in---and they should not confirm anyone who does not publically pledge to explain to GWB&co that the US constitution is more than a scrap of paper and specifically prohibits much of the crap GWB&co is doing.


Aschroft was villified for his religious beliefs but you never saw him use his position to force them on anyone.

As for the advice and consent of the Senate, not required by LAW. Besides, why trust that bunch of clowns? Would you trust them if they were still Republican led? Hell I have learned not to trust either of the three organizations up there we can vote for
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Shivetya
http://www.suntimes.com/news/laney/302727,CST-EDT-LANEY19.article

Well I think the democrats will not want to dig too deep on these attorneys, it could spoil their party.

Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Well I think the democrats will not want to dig too deep on these attorneys, it could spoil their party.
The author of the article at your link is already a week behind the timeline. She missed a few points I and others have posted several times:
  1. Gonzales and others lied to Congress under oath about the facts in this matter.
  2. The Bushies abused a provision they sneaked into the Patriot Act that allowed them to fire honest prosecutors who didn't adhere to the Whitehouse's political agenda to ignore criminal actions aimed at their political allies like Randy "Duke" Cunningham and pursue actions agains their political enemies, regardless of the actual merits of the case and to bypass Congressional oversight when appointing their toadies as replacements for those they fired.
  3. The e-mails between DOJ and the Whitehouse are hard evidence of Bush and Rove's direct involvement in the firings, despite their denials.
Her entire column is a rehash of all the Bushwhacko denials, dodges and misdirection that have already been discredited. Repeating them in an opinion column doesn't make them anymore true. :roll:

Wow, it's very clear Shivy is paid for what he posts.

No one in their right mind would possibly drum up the nonsense he does from the garbage sources he comes up with.

I pulled the first link from Google News. I always read the first three, yet post the first.

When you can be bothered to refute the information and not the source then perhaps I will take you seriously. You never seem to debate what is offered but instead either attack the poster or their source.

Whats wrong? Can't debate the merits of it so attack the messenger? Typical left wing loser.


Besides, Carter beat Bush to the punch. Seems he fired a US Attorney at the request of the Democrat Congressman being investigated.

The rule of LAW is clear, Bush and Co, can fire these guys AT WILL. The democrats just need a controversy because they aren't doing jack since taking power.

Neither side wants to fix America, they just want to beat up the other side. If either side would bother to remember why they are elected we might actually have a real government.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Shivetya
http://www.suntimes.com/news/laney/302727,CST-EDT-LANEY19.article

Well I think the democrats will not want to dig too deep on these attorneys, it could spoil their party.

Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Well I think the democrats will not want to dig too deep on these attorneys, it could spoil their party.
The author of the article at your link is already a week behind the timeline. She missed a few points I and others have posted several times:
  1. Gonzales and others lied to Congress under oath about the facts in this matter.
  2. The Bushies abused a provision they sneaked into the Patriot Act that allowed them to fire honest prosecutors who didn't adhere to the Whitehouse's political agenda to ignore criminal actions aimed at their political allies like Randy "Duke" Cunningham and pursue actions agains their political enemies, regardless of the actual merits of the case and to bypass Congressional oversight when appointing their toadies as replacements for those they fired.
  3. The e-mails between DOJ and the Whitehouse are hard evidence of Bush and Rove's direct involvement in the firings, despite their denials.
Her entire column is a rehash of all the Bushwhacko denials, dodges and misdirection that have already been discredited. Repeating them in an opinion column doesn't make them anymore true. :roll:

Wow, it's very clear Shivy is paid for what he posts.

No one in their right mind would possibly drum up the nonsense he does from the garbage sources he comes up with.

I pulled the first link from Google News. I always read the first three, yet post the first.

When you can be bothered to refute the information and not the source then perhaps I will take you seriously. You never seem to debate what is offered but instead either attack the poster or their source.

Whats wrong? Can't debate the merits of it so attack the messenger?

Typical left wing loser.

Besides, Carter beat Bush to the punch. Seems he fired a US Attorney at the request of the Democrat Congressman being investigated.

The rule of LAW is clear, Bush and Co, can fire these guys AT WILL. The democrats just need a controversy because they aren't doing jack since taking power.

Neither side wants to fix America, they just want to beat up the other side. If either side would bother to remember why they are elected we might actually have a real government.

Like your heroes have "fixed" America for the last seven years? :cookie:
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Fern
Again, what the heck is all this fuss really about?
It's about Gonzales and others lying to Congress under oath about the facts.

Didn't have time to respond yesterday.....

But Harvey, improper firning of AG's and perjury strike me as two different offenses. E.g., even if found not to have improperly (let's assume for disc purposes) he could still be prosecuted for perjury. And vice versa.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Fern
Finally found this thread.

Sundays paper had a story about the NM AG fired. (My paper is a NYT paper, no freind of the Admin either.)

I was surprised to see that:

(1) This AG was a Repub; and

(2) There was undisputed voter fraud, and this AG had basically done nothing, or had no progress after several years in prosecuting it.

As much fuss as many had been making it seemed that the Gonzales was firing Dems?

Since he's a Repub all this stuff about firing at the beginning of the Admin is mostly irelevant. When a Dem takes over form a Repuib or vice-versa we expect firing en mass so that the new Pres puts in AG's of his party etc.

Again, what the heck is all this fuss really about?

Fern

Because regardless of what party they came from, you can't pick and choose who to fire based mostly on what cases they choose to pursue. This is the Dept. of Justice we're talking about here and justice will NOT be served by forcing the DA's to kowtow and only work on the cases the administration wants prosecuted.

"Pick & choose" seems too ill defined for my particular tastse. Doesn't adequately decribe the sitution sufficiently to move analsys/debate forward....

Again, from the content of intial threads/discussion (even discussion on tv news) seemed Gonzales fired Dem AG's. All the discussion of "he shoulda done it at the begining of the admin like everybody else" implied to me he fired Dems.

But this case (Iglesias) he's a Repub, what of the others?

Complaining about a Repub firing a Repub strikes me as odd, The Dem party has demanding that Bush fire all kinds of other Repubs.

I see nothing wrong with firing him (them) if they're not doing their job properly. I wish the one in my (state) district would be fired for not prosecuting cases, or prosecuting them poorly. But that's another thread.

Merely because people were unhappy with him for not pursuing obvious (according to the NYT article) voter fraud b4 an election , does not prove nefarious political motivations. Could be seen as common sense. Why let it continue through several election cycles?

If it was "politically motivated" (examples: NOT prosecuting a "guilty" Repub, or pursuing false charges against Dems to harrass) someone s/b get into trouble.

In the Iglesias case, there seems no doubt there was verifed voter fraud, I have not heard it argued otherwise, anywhere. That doesn't mean there couldn't have been nefarious polital motivations, but does seem to require that intent be proven. Intent is difficult to prove, will require an investigation. That has not occured yet.

To prematurely claim, and have said claim enforced, that any AG who is fired in connection with any politically connected case is (prima facia) corruption sets a bad policy IMHO. I don't want to see such "politically" connected cases become sacred cows. That AG's must not be answerable to anyone in regards to these cases, etc.

When in power, both parties tend to wish special rights for themselves, and special restrictions upon the other. Then when the "shoe is on the other foot" scream bloody murder. It's a very poor way to make policy.

I prefer we don't make poor policy here as a result of the current political infighting. I think it very poor policy to convey divine rights upon AGs, and elevate them beyong reproach of any sort. Whether, politically conected cases or not.

Fern