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more f'ing BS from unions

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Hacp said:
Um by the time GM went bankrupt didn't half their costs go to pensions and health care for the retired workers?
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The US auto industry failed be cause R&D failed to adapt, they should have had hybrids a long time ago, and all the companies that did were able to weather the storm.
 
TheSiege said:
I am union and would never go back. People that complain about unions usually have no idea what they are about. True certain "PEOPLE" and certain "managers" or "Business Agents" are lazy, but its stupid to judge a group of people based on the actions and words of one. I get health care paid for, I get retirement, I get a decent wage compared to my non-union counterparts. And I would go toe to toe with anyone who says non-union does higher quality work. I am an electrcian, I am currently on a job with both union and non union electricians. Union JATC programs provide high standards and I KNOW this. True some people are lazy, union and non union. But unions provide things that non unions don't. And I am willing to bet that percentage wise, unions higher a helluva lot less illegals then non union.
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People that complain about unions non stop should join one to see what it is fully like to be a part of one. Union people do some really good work around here. Thaqt is why they always go back to union labor around here, they don't cut corners and get the job done safely and on time.
 
Hacp said:
Um by the time GM went bankrupt didn't half their costs go to pensions and health care for the retired workers?
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I did not see Ford file for bankruptcy. I am sure they had to deal with the UAW as well. GMC's costs were so outrageous because they were used to ripping off the American public for so long and when their market share went down, they were lost with CRAPPY cars that had CRAPPY reliability for years.
 
Adrenaline said:
No single company should ever agree to a contract where they are losing money and not making a profit. That is a STUPID business decision.
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with all the picket lines...etc, they had a choice? thats why they end up outsourcing. lol Its not like they just suddenly hire off the streets and have everything a ok. what is it? 12 votes at least to go union? i cant remember. Our company would bankrupt quick but we are small.
And as for GM...we had bor warner. Unions refused a paycut and walked, so a year later they moved to Mexico...jobs said bye bye. that was before the Gm went brankrupt but thats just a small example of an auto manufacturing job...one of many that eventually outsourced.
 
I believe it is a 50%+ vote to go union at a workplace. I would not say that as a small company you would go bankrupt for sure, you would need to see the financials.

Why can't high paying management and managers take paycuts? Why is the union always attacked first?
 
Adrenaline said:
People that complain about unions non stop should join one to see what it is fully like to be a part of one. Union people do some really good work around here. Thaqt is why they always go back to union labor around here, they don't cut corners and get the job done safely and on time.
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I was in a union and all my coworkers were lazy sacks of shit.


But did it matter? Nope, they got SENIORITY.
 
Ns1 said:
I was in a union and all my coworkers were lazy sacks of shit.


But did it matter? Nope, they got SENIORITY.
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I can see that with some people in unions. The union I am in 98%+ are actually worth a darn which is nice.
 
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bctbct said:
Sounds like bad management. Blame the Union though...
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Of course its bad management. You tell a union worker to clean and move the computer, the union member tells you its not in his job description 😱.
 
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Adrenaline said:
Why can't high paying management and managers take paycuts? Why is the union always attacked first?
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Gee, I dunno, Maybe because the salary and benefits of the rank and file workers make up a huge percentage of a company's operating budget, whereas the salaries of senior management is negligible?

Nah, that can't be it :awe:
 
USPS is obsolete. Other companies can do their job easier for less money. The internet can handle the rest.

Just WTF comes in the mail besides junk mail anyway?
 
Adrenaline said:
Yet the USPS is full of fail. Sigh. Fvcking greedy management.

See, I can do this also.
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Um, yeah, USPS is ran by the government. Who's goal isn't to turn a profit, but to provide a public service. Greed has nothing to do with the train wreck that is the USPS.

Why pretty much every government job out there has a union is beyond me. The government isn't out there to screw their workers out of money, they are there to screw tax-payers out of their money.

I can understand a union for construction or corporate work, just, not for government work.
 
Adrenaline said:
I did not see Ford file for bankruptcy. I am sure they had to deal with the UAW as well. GMC's costs were so outrageous because they were used to ripping off the American public for so long and when their market share went down, they were lost with CRAPPY cars that had CRAPPY reliability for years.
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Built by crappy union workers? 😛
 
amdhunter said:
USPS is obsolete. Other companies can do their job easier for less money. The internet can handle the rest.

Just WTF comes in the mail besides junk mail anyway?
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meh, I prefer to send/receive usps more than ups or fedex. Generally cheaper in my experience for small packages and a hell of a lot more convenient.
 
While I dislike unions, their argument is a valid one.

Cutting Saturdays has potential to be a disaster for the USPS - especially if it further diminishes demand. Generally, cutting the quality of service in a dwindling market is not the best way to save a failing entity.
 
Cogman said:
While this is true, it shows how pathetic USPS really is when you consider that UPS and FedEx are comparative to USPS and turn multi-billion dollar profits each year.
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UPS and Fedex have no legal mandate to provide universal service at a fixed rate regardless of cost. The USPS does. Every time the USPS suggests closing money losing rural post offices, the local congress critters come unhinged. The USPS suggested stopping mail flights to service a handful of folks living in the back of beyond in the mountains of Montana. Congress said "nope" you have to continue to squander thousands of dollars per week to fly junk mail to those folks. These rugged individualists get grossly subsidized mail service. Meanwhile the lines at the urban post offices that actually make money for the USPS are ridiculously long. None of this has anything to do with a union.
 
theevilsharpie said:
Gee, I dunno, Maybe because the salary and benefits of the rank and file workers make up a huge percentage of a company's operating budget, whereas the salaries of senior management is negligible?

Nah, that can't be it :awe:
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CEOs and others make millions a year in compensation and you complain about someone who is making $25+ an hour. Companies go after hourly people because it is the main thing they can attempt to control the price on. Don't forget the fact that the union mans job at GMC was right at less than 10% of the total cost of building a car yet they were blamed for the prices of the cars. Management to the CEO in salary along with raw materials make up the other 90%, but you don't want to touch that right? I am not seeing the huge % you were talking about.
 
Adrenaline said:
CEOs and others make millions a year in compensation and you complain about someone who is making $25+ an hour. Companies go after hourly people because it is the main thing they can attempt to control the price on. Don't forget the fact that the union mans job at GMC was right at less than 10% of the total cost of building a car yet they were blamed for the prices of the cars. Management to the CEO in salary along with raw materials make up the other 90%, but you don't want to touch that right? I am not seeing the huge % you were talking about.
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I think its time for an exercise in MATHEMATICS :awe:

Let's take your example of someone making $25. Assuming that this person works full-time, he or she is making $52,000 per year, which I'll round to $50,000 to make the math easy.

According to Wikipedia, GM currently has 244,500 employees. Let's assume that 200,000 employees are union workers making $50,000 per year.

$50,000 x 200,000 = $10,000,000,000

On top of a employee's gross pay, the company has to pay for things such as health insurance, vacation/sick pay, worker's comp, etc, as well as overhead from services such as HR that support the workforce. For the typical office job, this overhead cost is about 30% of the typical employee's gross pay. I'm going to assume that a union factory worker is higher, but I'll go with 30%.

$10,000,000,000 x 0.3($10,000,000,000) = $13,000,000,000

There may be a handful of people at GM making a few million a year, but GM's rank and file labor force is costing it $10+ billion a year. I wonder where they'll look to cut expenses :hmm:
 
While controlling costs is always important, making operating decisions based solely on the bottom line is just plain stupid. Accountants, at best, provide an accurate picture that can be understood by operating managers of a specific point in the past. At worst, they provide work for accountants who create paperwork of no use to anyone. They are merely one tool of many to be used to manage an operation. Perhaps if managers were held accountable for their performance, the USPS would do a better job. I might mention that when I was a kid, USPS delivered twice a day.
 
Adrenaline said:
Crappy R&D along with crappy engineering and behind the times thinking management.
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because all R&D money is tied up paying benefits and pension to union workers.
can't they see that they're biting the hand that feeds them?

what good are your benefits if in a year, you won't have a job anymore?
morons.
 
Adrenaline said:
Yet the USPS is full of fail. Sigh. Fvcking greedy management.

See, I can do this also.
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The USPS isn't a for profit industry. Can you show me the management that rakes in the cash? This might be a bigger problem at your privatized carriers like UPS and FedEx, but I'm certain people with fat bonuses aren't working at the USPS, and even if there are some, it cannot be compared to the finance/banking industry.

Many inefficiences occur in unionized labor. Everyone knows this. The desire to outsource/subcontract comes from the fact that there are specialized labor forces out there that can do the job for a far more competitive rate. While there may be some benefits to unions, it's quite obvious its a huge bureaucratic mess. Sometimes this mess is minimized and unionized labor can compete, but at other times it's probably not that great. I'm willing to bet in the USPS' case it's bogging the whole institution down.
 
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