Moody's warns it may cut California's debt rating

winnar111

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http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...1/california-cred.html

California, tied with Louisiana for the lowest credit rating among the states, now is in more danger of claiming rock-bottom all for itself.

Moody?s Investors Service today warned that it might downgrade California?s general obligation bond rating, currently A1, because of the state?s "significant budgetary shortfall, impending liquidity crisis, and lack of legislative solutions."

Louisiana also is rated A1. All other states are rated higher on Moody?s scale, typically AA or AAA.

Moody?s shift follows a similar warning on California?s debt rating by its rival, Standard & Poor?s, on Dec. 11. S&P also has California tied with Louisiana for last place on the ratings scale.

California_state_flag Moody?s indicated it?s running out of patience with the state as Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Legislature fail to agree on a plan to plug California?s massive projected budget shortfalls -- $15 billion in 2009 and $25 billion in 2010.

"Although the legislative and executive branch continue to debate fiscal and cash measures, and the legislature is required to come up with solutions by Feb. 3, we do not yet know whether solutions will actually be passed, or whether they will be workable, reasonable, and of a sufficient magnitude to achieve a degree of credit stabilization consistent with the current rating level," Moody?s said in a statement.

In theory, a low credit rating means a state should pay more to borrow than states with higher ratings. But because of its size and the large investor base for its tax-free bonds, California hasn?t always been penalized by the market despite its low credit standing.

Even so, some money managers say they?ve been avoiding California?s $57 billion in outstanding general obligation bonds in part on the assumption that the state?s rating would fall further into the basement.

"We see a reasonable chance for a downgrade" given the budget mess, said George Strickland, manager of the Thornburg California Limited Term Municipal bond fund in Santa Fe, N.M. "We sold the last of our general obligation bonds last week."

As I noted in this earlier post on the muni market, the issue with California isn?t that the state won?t make good on its debts. It?s required to do so by the state Constitution.

But if the rating is cut, and investors demand higher yields on new bonds the state issues, older bonds issued at lower yields could fall in value, giving investors a paper loss.


Tax refunds in the form of IOUs, bond rating in the toilet, millionaires fleeing for safe havens.

It's a shame what liberals have done to the great state of Reagan.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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It's a shame what liberals have done to the great state of Reagan.
Yes, because none of the red states are facing budgetary shortfalls.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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They'll get a bailout.
 

winnar111

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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

Why? That doesn't mesh with your Robin Hood agenda.
 

OrByte

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Jul 21, 2000
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Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

Why? That doesn't mesh with your Robin Hood agenda.

dude, you are so bitter.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Bitter rage posted by: wanker111
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

Why? That doesn't mesh with your Robin Hood agenda.
Because it's important to the health of the National Economy that a State like California that contributes so much to the Treasury through Federal taxes stay afloat unlike an insignificant state like..ohh..N.Carolina.
 

Ryan711

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Jun 23, 2004
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

Or perhaps, maybe, just maybe, they shoudn't spend what they don't have. Despite the econmic crisis, Texas is still doing quite well, and yet, it has about half the GDP of CA.

 

imported_K3N

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Dec 20, 2005
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30 billion went to BofA, yet Cali couldn't get a fraction of that. Hey folks if Cali goes bankrupt, the 92 la riots will look like a victory parade.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
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Originally posted by: Ryan711
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

Or perhaps, maybe, just maybe, they shoudn't spend what they don't have. Despite the econmic crisis, Texas is still doing quite well, and yet, it has about half the GDP of CA.


Obviously you don't understand the Democratic strategy, California will spend their way out of this crisis.
 

GTKeeper

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Apr 14, 2005
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Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?

Explain where my logic is wrong please:

Businesses leave because labor costs are too high and they get taxed too much.
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
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Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?

Explain where my logic is wrong please:

Businesses leave because labor costs are too high and they get taxed too much.

http://sanfrancisco.bizjournal...2007/07/09/story1.html

Millionaires cashing out of Bay Area

he Bay Area's wealth boom is producing an explosion of millionaires -- in Nevada, Wyoming and perhaps Canada.

Wealth managers and other advisers to the well-heeled say "wealth migration" -- taking the money and running -- is behind a surprising drop in the number of Bay Area millionaires.

The number of North American households with at least $1 million in investable assets (not including home equity) rose sharply last year, growing by 10 percent. But in the Bay Area, it fell by 0.37 percent to 111,190, according to the World Wealth Report produced by Merrill Lynch and Capgemini, based in part on demographic data from research firm Claritas.
 

GTKeeper

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Apr 14, 2005
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Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?

Explain where my logic is wrong please:

Businesses leave because labor costs are too high and they get taxed too much.

You must be assuming that all businesses in Cali pay their workers 8 bucks an hour. I haven't seen a massive exodus of the fast food industry from Cali. At the same time, I haven't seen a mass exodus of silicon valley companies either. I guess they like paying the high taxes.

Do you know why California is in trouble? I bet you can't even tell me why. Figure that out and you will have your answer. And it has NOTHING to do with the minimum wage or taxes.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,455
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I'm sure Congress wouldn't mind joining California in bankruptcy and thus is going to bail them out.

California is clearly "too big to fail".
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?

Explain where my logic is wrong please:

Businesses leave because labor costs are too high and they get taxed too much.

You must be assuming that all businesses in Cali pay their workers 8 bucks an hour. I haven't seen a massive exodus of the fast food industry from Cali. At the same time, I haven't seen a mass exodus of silicon valley companies either. I guess they like paying the high taxes.

Do you know why California is in trouble? I bet you can't even tell me why. Figure that out and you will have your answer. And it has NOTHING to do with the minimum wage or taxes.

Are you serious? There are more minimum wage jobs than just fast-food. Warehouses, telephone centers, drivers, etc.

And then when the minimum goes up, people who are currently making MW + $2.00/hr think that they should get a raise as well, as if they have a hard margin over MW.

Minimum wage and taxes drive out business. People incorporate in Nevada, people send their phone operations to India.

Why in the world would I pay someone $8.50/hr when I can pay Savijay $5/day?
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
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Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: GTKeeper
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?

Explain where my logic is wrong please:

Businesses leave because labor costs are too high and they get taxed too much.

You must be assuming that all businesses in Cali pay their workers 8 bucks an hour. I haven't seen a massive exodus of the fast food industry from Cali. At the same time, I haven't seen a mass exodus of silicon valley companies either. I guess they like paying the high taxes.

Do you know why California is in trouble? I bet you can't even tell me why. Figure that out and you will have your answer. And it has NOTHING to do with the minimum wage or taxes.

http://www.ronaldreagan.com/fo...showthread.php?t=16647
http://www.caltax.org/Vames-Bu...gCalifornia8-20-03.pdf
http://www.allbusiness.com/nor...ro-areas/959276-1.html
http://realityalert.electionfo...Taxes-Regulations.html

LOS ANGELES -- The budgetary and political upheaval in California is prompting other states to poach companies based here, and there are early signs the states are succeeding.

States from Arizona to Wyoming have been putting out feelers to companies either considering moving out of the Golden State or expanding their operations in more business-friendly regions. The rival states' moves are triggered not only by longtime complaints from California companies about high taxes, elevated energy prices, pricey real estate and regulatory red tape, but also by the state's gubernatorial recall vote and its need for cash as it faces a $38 billion budgetary gap.

In a recent survey conducted by the California Business Roundtable, about 20% of 400 California businesses said they are planning to move or expand out of state. That's by far the highest figure ever recorded in their survey, the group says.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Ryan711
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

Or perhaps, maybe, just maybe, they shoudn't spend what they don't have. Despite the econmic crisis, Texas is still doing quite well, and yet, it has about half the GDP of CA.
Hey you're right, they shouldn't have but at least it isn't Texas.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,455
9,677
136
Originally posted by: alien42
the Governor of California is Republican, no?

Who is capable of nothing more than turning around and begging the Senate and Assembly to do something right. He might as well be the Queen of England for as much power as he holds over the state's budget.
 

idiotekniQues

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2007
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where were the credit rating agencies in being diligent when it came to rating mortgage backed securities for their fatcat investor kings.