Money isnt everything (education)

[Zebo]

I was listening to legendary billionaire investor Jim Rogers today on BBC radio and he was saying we spend 3x as much as other countries on education but our children rank 22nd when tested against the rest of the world. What a horrible investment. So what's going on?

 

[JSt0rm]

for profit universities?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I was listening to legendary billionaire investor Jim Rogers today on BBC radio and he was saying we spend 3x as much as other countries on education but our children rank 22nd when tested against the rest of the world. What a horrible investment. So what's going on?

What's going on is that we have millions of children who are urban poor and often minorities, and they drag the test scores down. It may be a result of inherited IQ, culture, or a combination of both. If you look at how white and Asian students are doing, they're doing fine.

It might be possible to find some op-eds that discuss research data related to race, IQ, and educational success here:

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp_a=sp0a298a00&sp_f=iso-8859-1&sp_q=race+iq

 

[DucatiMonster696]

for profit universities?

Hint: For profit universities aren't the reason why kids are scoring so low on tests in grades k-12.

 

[Zebo]

What's going on is that we have millions of children who are urban poor and often minorities, and they drag the test scores down. It may be a result of inherited IQ, culture, or a combination of both. If you look at how white and Asian students are doing, they're doing fine.

It might be possible to find some op-eds that discuss research data related to race, IQ, and educational success here:

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp_a=sp0a298a00&sp_f=iso-8859-1&sp_q=race+iq

That's a bunch of BS. Any child can score A's with proper motivation. Super high IQ only comes into play separating Nobel prize chemists from laboratory analytical chemists for example. I think you were closer with our culture expecting less. Grade inflation and whatnot.

 

[LegendKiller]

I was listening to legendary billionaire investor Jim Rogers today on BBC radio and he was saying we spend 3x as much as other countries on education but our children rank 22nd when tested against the rest of the world. What a horrible investment. So what's going on?

What makes Jim Rogers "legendary"? That he abandoned this country and has promoted the China model for fucking our country's economy through the currency peg?

There are plusses and minuses to our education system. Many European countries offer a caste/class type system which separates their kids at an early age into university or tech paths, forever dooming them to one path or another. Jumping is very rare and most tech are consigned to tech, regardless of future motivation or ability. ONce you do that it's pretty easy to get "good" test scores in high school, you've eliminated the less motivated and "good" students and slotted the less "good" or less motivated students into an easier system.

In America we're flat across the board, sure, it wasted a lot of resources, but it does allow kids to jump between and become better at a later age.

 

[Zebo]

What makes Jim Rogers "legendary"? That he abandoned this country and has promoted the China model for fucking our country's economy through the currency peg?

There are plusses and minuses to our education system. Many European countries offer a caste/class type system which separates their kids at an early age into university or tech paths, forever dooming them to one path or another. Jumping is very rare and most tech are consigned to tech, regardless of future motivation or ability. ONce you do that it's pretty easy to get "good" test scores in high school, you've eliminated the less motivated and "good" students and slotted the less "good" or less motivated students into an easier system.

In America we're flat across the board, sure, it wasted a lot of resources, but it does allow kids to jump between and become better at a later age.

In 10 years his fund did 4200% vs 47% stock market did for one and that should be enough for legendary status. And he's right about heading East too and USA being a has been. You'll see.

 

[charrison]

I was listening to legendary billionaire investor Jim Rogers today on BBC radio and he was saying we spend 3x as much as other countries on education but our children rank 22nd when tested against the rest of the world. What a horrible investment. So what's going on?

political correctness, lack of standards, grade inflation, lack of discipline and general waste, fraud and abuse.

a few examples....

We have a goal in this country for everyone to get a high school diploma. Good goal, however it means we must set the bar so low that everyone can pass.

Class sizes. A good teacher with good kids can be much larger that a bad teacher with bad kids. Yes that means we a better off grouping kids by their ability.


All teachers are paid based on years of experience, not results.

We know there are failing schools, yet we do nothing about it.

Even students know who the bad teachers are, but nothing is done.


it is time for major reform in education.

 

[Ape]

We have been throwing money at this problem for years and it hasn't worked, time for something new.

 

[charrison]

We have been throwing money at this problem for years and it hasn't worked, time for something new.

actually it is more like time for something old...

high expectations and class room discipline.

 

[LegendKiller]

In 10 years his fund did 4200% vs 47% stock market did for one and that should be enough for legendary status. And he's right about heading East too and USA being a has been. You'll see.

We'll see if I see. Personally, I doubt if I'll see. In fact, I am sure you'll see.

I haven't see any evidence he's up that much, but hey, if you want to just grab the info from Wiki without or doing actual research to find out that it was really just a one-shot bet against the Pound Sterling or that it was mostly driven by Soros and Rogers has skated since, then that's your problem not mine.

So much for bitching about education when you can't even bother to educate yourself.

 

[Zebo]

We'll see if I see. Personally, I doubt if I'll see. In fact, I am sure you'll see.

I haven't see any evidence he's up that much, but hey, if you want to just grab the info from Wiki without or doing actual research to find out that it was really just a one-shot bet against the Pound Sterling or that it was mostly driven by Soros and Rogers has skated since, then that's your problem not mine.

So much for bitching about education when you can't even bother to educate yourself.

Sounds like you're the one who needs to be educated. Quantum when Rogers was on board 1970-1980 did 4200%. Then he retired and rode his motorcycle around the world. 12 years after he was gone, in 1992, was when Soros did the Sterling move.

 

[LegendKiller]

Sounds like you're the one who needs to be educated. Quantum when Rogers was on board 1970-1980 did 4200%. Then he retired and rode his motorcycle around the world. 12 years after he was gone, in 1992, was when Soros did the Sterling move.

Indeed, I was wrong there, but the fund was pretty much Soros'. I've read several books which attribute the bulk of the returns to Soros.

Soros is worth $11bn, how much is Rogers worth? He isn't even on the Forbes list. Some say he's worth less than $100mm.

You hook your wagon to an American that doesn't even believe in the country that provided him his chance, I'll stick to the one that is still here trying to make things work.

Once this whole Asian shit calms down, I'll laugh my ass off at Roger's shitty bet. Maybe he'll even eat crow and move back here.

 

[MovingTarget]

actually it is more like time for something old...

high expectations and class room discipline.

There is a saying amongst educators...everyone rises to low expectations. If you expect little, that is EXACTLY what you get in the classroom. We need to set the bar higher so that a high school diploma means something significant again.

On another note, money isn't everything, but it does account for a lot. Lack of proper funding and resources has significant repercussions in the classroom.

 

[Zebo]

There is a saying amongst educators...everyone rises to low expectations. If you expect little, that is EXACTLY what you get in the classroom. We need to set the bar higher so that a high school diploma means something significant again.

On another note, money isn't everything, but it does account for a lot. Lack of proper funding and resources has significant repercussions in the classroom.

This. I do a little free coaching (wrestling) for the local school around here and tell my kids you're not getting any better unless you're failing while putting them though drills. My son is in there too so it's not like I'm there to torture but make them better. Today, some schools don't even give grades for fear of failure. Bar should be set high sand failure should be embraced instead and more importantly overcoming failure is how you get great.

 

[Ape]

actually it is more like time for something old...

high expectations and class room discipline.

Agreed.

 

[wuliheron]

I was listening to legendary billionaire investor Jim Rogers today on BBC radio and he was saying we spend 3x as much as other countries on education but our children rank 22nd when tested against the rest of the world. What a horrible investment. So what's going on?

What's going on is the US has a lot of social problems and has always paid through the nose for them. People bitch about morality, but the highest rates of homicide, STDs, etc. are in the Bible belt. Its called denial:

Denial
–noun
1. an assertion that something said, believed, alleged, etc., is false: Despite his denials, we knew he had taken the purse. The politician issued a denial of his opponent's charges.
2. refusal to believe a doctrine, theory, or the like.
3. disbelief in the existence or reality of a thing.

Blame it on Godlessness, blame it on immorality, blame it on race, blame it on anyone but whatever you don't blame it on yourself and your culture.

 

[Jeff7]

Doing well in school and being smart in general is looked down on in popular culture, and on some pundit shows and news-like networks.

Intelligence = elitist = a bad thing.
Being disrespectful of teachers and flaunting assignments = a badass = someone worthy of respect.

The culture promotes the idea that being well-educated is undesirable, and we get to live it.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Because our schools aren't there to educate, they're there to get all people to receive equal credentials for being a mindless drones subservient to corporatist masters. We succeed admirably in this regard, so the schools are working exactly as intended.

Our society despises intelligence and education. Our society is blind to truth. Our culture is hopelessly broken. Our parents have no control or discipline. Ect, etc, etc.

 

[wuliheron]

Because our schools aren't there to educate, they're there to get all people to receive equal credentials for being a mindless drones subservient to corporatist masters. We succeed admirably in this regard, so the schools are working exactly as intended.

Our society despises intelligence and education. Our society is blind to truth. Our culture is hopelessly broken. Our parents have no control or discipline. Ect, etc, etc.

My father always told me a college degree is just a piece of paper that tells employers you can be trained. There have even been a few cases of illiterate people getting college degrees and having successful careers not to mention all the people who have been caught with bogus degrees. In this country about all that people value is your income and position.

 

[manlymatt83]

I blame the parents. I also blame a lack of privatization of education. But mostly, the parents. And the pussification of America ... everyone needs to be "equal" and people focus more on "PC" than actually educating.

 

[Zebo]

Sounds like you're talking about Benny the B. Dude never had a successful investment career in his life and wrong on everything and he's got most powerful job in America.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

That's a bunch of BS. Any child can score A's with proper motivation. Super high IQ only comes into play separating Nobel prize chemists from laboratory analytical chemists for example. I think you were closer with our culture expecting less. Grade inflation and whatnot.

I don't know what the answer is, but there are a great many studies showing racial and geographic differences in IQ. Take it for what it's worth. I know it's politically incorrect to ever mention it and it's a completely taboo subject, but if it's true it's true, reality is reality, and facts are facts even if we don't like it. If it's true, then I don't like the fact any more than you do.

As distasteful as that might be, perhaps that sort of knowledge could be used for benevolent purposes in some sort of a way.

 

[Zebo]

I don't know what the answer is, but there are a great many studies showing racial and geographic differences in IQ. Take it for what it's worth. I know it's politically incorrect to ever mention it and it's a completely taboo subject, but if it's true it's true, reality is reality, and facts are facts even if we don't like it. If it's true, then I don't like the fact any more than you do.

As distasteful as that might be, perhaps that sort of knowledge could be used for benevolent purposes in some sort of a way.

It's BS because there has been plenty of hard nosed principles that have gone into black under-performing schools and turned them into scholars and doctors. Material is not hard motivation is and culture is.

The only benefit recognizing this false assumption that black kids are stupid is racism or spending even more money for nothing. Either way bad news.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

There are plusses and minuses to our education system. Many European countries offer a caste/class type system which separates their kids at an early age into university or tech paths, forever dooming them to one path or another. Jumping is very rare and most tech are consigned to tech, regardless of future motivation or ability. ONce you do that it's pretty easy to get "good" test scores in high school, you've eliminated the less motivated and "good" students and slotted the less "good" or less motivated students into an easier system.

We need to make our system look more like what you just described. Not everyone should go to college and the dirty little secret that the public doesn't k now about is that in reality only a smaller percentage of all jobs, perhaps 10-15%, require or make real use of college education. Perhaps we'd be better off if college graduate production more closely matched the real world need for college graduates (as opposed to wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on unneeded education and having young people take on mountains of student loan debt).