Mom's new laptop (purchased Walmart special Celeron dual-core 4205U Lenovo laptop)

[VirtualLarry]

First of all, no pics of Mom.

She's got an older Lenovo IdeaPad 100S. She watches videos and looks things up online, to pass the time. No, I don't think that she does forums, or types much.

The IdeaPad 100S, has a Bay Trail Atom quad-core, 1.3Ghz (1.8Ghz "burst"). It has a Passmark of around 900.

Walmart has a few laptops, currently, mostly IdeaPads, with CPUs ranging from a Celeron 4205U ($209), to a Pentium Gold 5405U ($259), to an i3-8145U ($289), to an i5-8265U ($369). All have Windows 10, the Celeron and Pentium have 4GB RAM, the i3 and i5 have 8GB RAM, and all have 128GB SSDs, and 1366x768 screens.

I, of course, want "the best" for my Mom, as well as, I want to be able to buy a laptop for her, that's future-proof enough, that she doesn't need to buy another one in 3-4 years. (Unless it wears out physically, or the battery dies/swells up.)

So, the trade-off. Do I "go cheap", with the cheapest option, around 1.5x-2.0x as fast as her current laptop. (Actually, faster, the IdeaPad 100S has 2GB of RAM, 32-bit Windows 10, and only a 32GB eMMC.)

Or do I go for "the gusto" for the $389 one, with a Passmark of like 7000 or so.

Last night, I talked her up to the i3 model, which, I mentioned that Firefox uses AVX/AVX2 opcodes, at least for VP9 decode in software, and she watches YouTube, which uses VP9 when it can, so I thought that would be a good match-up. I think that the i3 has a Passmark of nearly 5000 or more. The Celeron and Pentium lack AVX/AVX2, which I feel is going to get more important in the next few years.

I just bought, for myself, an HP 14" from Walmart, with a Ryzen 3 3200U, which has nearly a 5000 Passmark. I upgraded it from 4GB DDR4 to 16GB DDR4 myself. I like it. (It supports AVX/AVX2.)

The question is, though, am I buying more than she needs, for a laptop? She's basically pretty happy with her 900-score Passmark IdeaPad 100S with a quad-core Atom, and she was like, "Why do I need performance?".

She's more interested in the color of the laptop's casing, than what's in it.

I'm much more of a functionality person, and a price/performance seeker.

Or suggest a laptop for Mom? Something other than a Chromebook (She uses Firefox, and ad-blocking, both of which you can't do on a Chromebook, to my knowledge), and Windows 10 "S Mode" (for the same reason).

Oh, and it must be fairly lightweight, NOT have "eMMC", must have REAL SSD, must have a minimum of 8GB RAM, or have the ability to upgrade it to 8GB or more, and have Windows 10 (Home or Pro, either is fine). No optical drive needed, and probably preferably not with one, because it adds weight.

Prefer 1080P screen, if it doesn't add too much cost, but 1366x768 is fine too, if it's cheap enough. (All of the Walmart laptops listed, are 768P / "HD".)

Oh yeah, NO "vipoutlet" as seller. Because reasons. (They sell on ebay, their site, as well as Walmart.com.)

Budget is around $300 or under, preferably under. Nothing over $500.

I don't think that she would agree to a refurb, I know that there are some decent deals on refurbs, maybe someone might be thinking of recommending a ThinkPad, those are "tanks", but she needs something lightweight, and most refurbs are older models, and not all that lightweight. Think of a 70-year-old woman, picking up a laptop with one hand. She needs to be able to do that, without straining/breaking her wrist. (And she's not a female Lou Ferrigno.)

(Her current laptop is like 2.2-2.3lbs, I think 4lbs, maybe 4.5lbs, would be the limit. My Ryzen 3 3200U 14" HP laptop, is around 3.3lbs, and I consider that fairly lightweight.)

I mean, I could just get her one like my 14" HP, but then I'd have to deal with the heck known as "S Mode", and escaping from it, and I had to remove some "cosmetics", to get at the screws to upgrade the RAM in mine. I personally don't care that it looks slightly crappy because of that, but she might.

Links to some of the laptops in this Hot Deals thread I started too.
https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-128gb-or-larger-ssds-no-chromebooks.2567995/

I guess that the reason that I'm even asking this here, is that I want to "make sure that I get this right" for her, and neither of us has money to waste (contrary to what some of you might think about my purchasing), and that this might be "the last laptop that she ever gets".

She's already pretty familiar with Windows 10, thankfully, so there's no "old OS learning curve" here.

Or should I just get "the cheapest, but half-way decent" laptop, for $209:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Lenovo-i...te-Drive-Windows-10-Grey-81MV00FGUS/952957685

And not agonize over this. That MUST be better than her Atom laptop, right?
https://askgeek.io/en/cpus/vs/Intel_Atom-Z3735F-vs-Intel_Celeron-4205U

Moved from OT.
admin allisolm

 

[sdifox]

So look on slick deals?

Saw this over there

https://slickdeals.net/share/android_app/t/13268956


Techradar just put up an article on cheap laptops as well.

 

[Torn Mind]

Previous gen Ipads are better content consumption devices than whatever sub-300 laptop is out there. Buy a Amazon renewed product, and the return policy is 90 days.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sorry, not interested in an iPad. (Can you even run Firefox on a iPad?)

 

[deadlyapp]

Sorry, not interested in an iPad. (Can you even run Firefox on a iPad?)

Yes, I know you can do chrome so I don't see why there wouldn't be a FF app. Either way your mom doesn't care what browser she uses as long as it all works. An iPad (while I hate the idea for myself) would allow her to consume 95% of her content with no issues at all and is idiot proof (which most moms generally are when it comes to tech).

I'd seriously think about it. Maybe add a keyboard to it.

 

[Torn Mind]

Sorry, not interested in an iPad. (Can you even run Firefox on a iPad?)

Depends on the version, but generally yes.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-your-ipad-iphone-or-ipod

Get whatever budget i3 you can and don't look back.

 

[VirtualLarry]

So, you think that the i3 (with AVX/AVX2, bigger caches, Turbo, HT) is the way to go? That's how I was thinking initially, but then I got to thinking, whether future-proofing, technology-wise, would be wise, if, in five years, the platform (storage, RAM, etc.) improves by "so much", that she would be lagging behind (then), using a laptop produced (today).

Wondering if there would be bigger bang-for-buck, buying the $209 Celeron (today), and then buying whatever $200 laptop is available (in five years). Then again, if the last five years were any indication, buying the i3 would probably be wise, as there haven't been too many huge architectural changes, mostly just AVX and AVX2 and some AES-NI and whatnot.

Edit: Are there any Intel i3 laptops available, that are more-or-less "thin and light" (no DVD drive), that are under $300, AND include a 1080P screen (doesn't have to be IPS, but that's a bonus)? Doesn't have to be the newest fastest i3, but it does have to be "New", not a refurb. Although, if it's a factory refurb, possibly, maybe an HP or Acer or Asus or Lenovo. But i3, 1080P and under $300. Any out there?

https://www.costco.com/HP-14"-Laptop---Intel-Core-i3---1080p.product.100461207.html

 

[Torn Mind]

So, you think that the i3 (with AVX/AVX2, bigger caches, Turbo, HT) is the way to go? That's how I was thinking initially, but then I got to thinking, whether future-proofing, technology-wise, would be wise, if, in five years, the platform (storage, RAM, etc.) improves by "so much", that she would be lagging behind (then), using a laptop produced (today).

Wondering if there would be bigger bang-for-buck, buying the $209 Celeron (today), and then buying whatever $200 laptop is available (in five years). Then again, if the last five years were any indication, buying the i3 would probably be wise, as there haven't been too many huge architectural changes, mostly just AVX and AVX2 and some AES-NI and whatnot.

Edit: Are there any Intel i3 laptops available, that are more-or-less "thin and light" (no DVD drive), that are under $300, AND include a 1080P screen (doesn't have to be IPS, but that's a bonus)? Doesn't have to be the newest fastest i3, but it does have to be "New", not a refurb. Although, if it's a factory refurb, possibly, maybe an HP or Acer or Asus or Lenovo. But i3, 1080P and under $300. Any out there?

https://www.costco.com/HP-14"-Laptop---Intel-Core-i3---1080p.product.100461207.html

I have not been following the current computer trends at all, but generally, the full big cores are always worth the hundred or so dollars more than the "Atom". Faster architecture, higher peak clockspeeds. The IGP is also more cut down on the Atom. The i3's UHD 620 has 24 IGP execution units compared to the Pentium's UHD 610's 12.

Way back in the dark ages, my mom was goaded into buying a netbook with those crappy single-core Atoms by a friend at best buy. In the same store is a full-sized Toshiba with a first-gen i3-330M or something missing some keys. Needless to say, hindsight says that the netbook should have been returned and if we really wanted to, buy that open box i3; it would probably be still in use now. The netbook is now collecting dust as I have gone laptopless(using desktop and android tablet) for maybe 5-7 years and my sister is using an Ivy Bridge i3+SSD on a refurb Thinkpad.
Now, her Atom is better than those Atoms, but it's still the same principle. Graphics and scripts make certain sites rather heavy, and it pays to have more CPU power to handle those things.


Up to a point, say around an i5-2500, there isn't much gain to be had for doing "basic" tasks on a computer and money is better off given to peripherals, like expensive headphones, USB DACs and the like. Buy the i3 now, and blow the money in the future on things like that.

 

[crashtech]

Get a big core refurb and put a vinyl wrap on it so it looks pretty.
I've seen Thinkpad T450's with an i5, 8GB and an SSD go for less than $250.
Atoms are close to e-waste from the day they are new, imo.

 

[BudAshes]

What about the fs/ft forum? I haven't used it in a while but I've always had good luck picking up cheap quality stuff there.

*edit I have an Acer TravelMate TMB113-M-6812 I actually bought on here years ago that has an i3 processor, 8GB or ram and a 240GB SSD you can have for free for your mom. The problem might be the small screen as it is only a 12 inch laptop with a matte screen. It's just sitting in my closet somewhere right now. I'd have to confirm it still works though, but I don't see why it wouldn't. With the money you save you could buy her a nice big monitor she could watch stuff on.

 

[sdifox]

So, you think that the i3 (with AVX/AVX2, bigger caches, Turbo, HT) is the way to go? That's how I was thinking initially, but then I got to thinking, whether future-proofing, technology-wise, would be wise, if, in five years, the platform (storage, RAM, etc.) improves by "so much", that she would be lagging behind (then), using a laptop produced (today).

Wondering if there would be bigger bang-for-buck, buying the $209 Celeron (today), and then buying whatever $200 laptop is available (in five years). Then again, if the last five years were any indication, buying the i3 would probably be wise, as there haven't been too many huge architectural changes, mostly just AVX and AVX2 and some AES-NI and whatnot.

Edit: Are there any Intel i3 laptops available, that are more-or-less "thin and light" (no DVD drive), that are under $300, AND include a 1080P screen (doesn't have to be IPS, but that's a bonus)? Doesn't have to be the newest fastest i3, but it does have to be "New", not a refurb. Although, if it's a factory refurb, possibly, maybe an HP or Acer or Asus or Lenovo. But i3, 1080P and under $300. Any out there?

https://www.costco.com/HP-14"-Laptop---Intel-Core-i3---1080p.product.100461207.html

You are future proofing with 300 bux? Lol buy another 300 dollar laptop in five years.

 

[VirtualLarry]

the full big cores are always worth the hundred or so dollars more than the "Atom".

Atoms are close to e-waste from the day they are new, imo.

I think that you guys missed that all of the laptops (new ones) that I am considering, including the Celeron and Pentium Gold, ARE the "big Core" architecture. It's her current quad-core Atom (Bay Trail) that I'm trying to replace with a big-core laptop. Even the Celeron big-core would be 2.8x ST and 2.2x MT, according to a site I found.

Edit: She feels strongly about getting the cheapest Celeron (big-core) model, which is in some cases almost 3x faster than her current one, and only $209.

 

[Torn Mind]

I think that you guys missed that all of the laptops (new ones) that I am considering, including the Celeron and Pentium Gold, ARE the "big Core" architecture. It's her current quad-core Atom (Bay Trail) that I'm trying to replace with a big-core laptop. Even the Celeron big-core would be 2.8x ST and 2.2x MT, according to a site I found.

i3 is still worth the Turbo Boost and extra iGPU execution units.
i5 is can be worth it since it is apparently quad core. But not over interfacing with the machine (trackpad location, keyboard configuration) in this situation.

Since this is Wally World, you can try them out and return if the product is not to your satisfaction.

 

[serpretetsky]

What criticism does she have of the current laptop?

 

[VirtualLarry]

What criticism does she have of the current laptop?

That's the thing, she doesn't. (*) Which is why I phrased the thread title the way that I did.

I guess, because I upgraded my daily-driver laptop, from a dual-core Bay Trail Atom N2830, to a Ryzen 3 3200U, and saw the performance increase, that I thought that I would want her to have the same sort of positive experience.

I mean, if someone was still using a Pentium 4, in this day and age, wouldn't you try to upgrade them? If they didn't know any different, they might think that there are no performance issues... until they try something speedier!

(*) She's gone through several of these identical models, though. One of them, she left plugged in all of the time, and the battery swelled up. I told her not to do that, and we recycled that one.

Then she spilled something on the keyboard on #2, and it stopped being useful, with a screwed-up keyboard.

So now she's on #3, and I don't have any more to offer her. (That was my personal unit, that I sold her.)

So, in 4-5 years, she's on her third. And while there's no pressing problem with it, currently, I personally wonder how long that it will last. (The IdeaPad 100S, sad as it is, is basically disposable. We only paid $120 ea. for them.)

Not to mention, I'm always wary every Windows 10 major upgrade (*every six months), that it will "fit" on the 32GB eMMC, and that the upgrade will complete successfully. (Or will MS say, "Sorry, your model laptop is no longer supported"?)

 

[serpretetsky]

I try to avoid 300$ budget laptops because I don't feel confident in how reliable they will be. Refurbished/used business laptops have worked well for me. But maybe in the last 7 years budget laptops have gotten much better? I dont know.

Maybe a refurbished desktop might work for her as well? (Better cooling, faster processors, can be tucked under a desk away from spillable liquids, they generally get less accidental damage since they just sit there, no battery to even worry about)

edit: also, I dont think most laptops that are working correctly should have a problem with leaving them in plugged in all the time. The charger should cut off charging at 100%, and that threshold should be well below causing damage to the battery. High temps and physical damage could cause battery swell.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I try to avoid 300$ budget laptops because I don't feel confident in how reliable they will be. Refurbished/used business laptops have worked well for me. But maybe in the last 7 years budget laptops have gotten much better? I dont know.

I hear ya. She's not really on-board with refurb devices. (I don't mind so much, picked up a nice little Acer CloudBook a few years ago for under $100, put Linux Mint on there, runs nice, finally.)

Part of the thing too, is, the whole "thin & light" movement for laptops, only happened in the last few years, and refurb laptops worth their salt, seem to be business-oriented, which means, they have a heavier (often metal, Aluminum or Magnesium) chassis, which is great for durability and longevity, but not so great for lightweight.

She needs something that is lightweight.

Edit: Yes, lower-end laptops have gotten a bit better, they're pretty usable now, but as far as durability goes, not sure about that. They are mostly built to last maybe 3 years, I think, and fall apart. Whereas, most business laptops, seem to be built to last 8-10 years.

Maybe a refurbished desktop might work for her as well? (Better cooling, faster processors, can be tucked under a desk away from spillable liquids, they generally get less accidental damage since they just sit there, no battery to even worry about)

I've hooked her up with a couple of mini-PCs, well, SFF, not USFF, custom-built, with Love from me, but she doesn't even use them.

She MUCH prefers her little Lenovo laptop, she takes it into her bed, and watches programs and stuff on it.

edit: also, I dont think most laptops that are working correctly should have a problem with leaving them in plugged in all the time. The charger should cut off charging at 100%, and that threshold should be well below causing damage to the battery. High temps and physical damage could cause battery swell.

Well, maybe, but she was leaving it charging, at the foot of her bed, and left it covered, etc. Not a very good practice, in some cases, people have had fires from that sort of thing. So possibly, she was lucky.

I've also had batteries swell, mostly cell-phones, and I haven't mis-used them, so, it happens.

 

[Torn Mind]

If she's taking it into her bed to watch movies, then maybe you should just keep an eye out for more 11.6 inch laptops then.

Or again....previous gen IPad.

Hope her neck isn't too stiff. I know how the scalene muscles can make a person miserable.


https://laptopunderbudget.com/best-11-inch-laptops/

 

[VirtualLarry]

If she's taking it into her bed to watch movies, then maybe you should just keep an eye out for more 11.6 inch laptops then.

Or again....previous gen IPad.

Hope her neck isn't too stiff. I know how the scalene muscles can make a person miserable.


https://laptopunderbudget.com/best-11-inch-laptops/

I don't know what the scalene muscle is, but I would prefer probably finding her a 11.6", 13.3", or 14.0" laptop, over a 15.6" one. But I'm working with what I've got, price-wise, and that 14" Lenovo IdeaPad S145 with the Pentium Gold 5405U, 4GB / 128GB SSD, is available in the local WM store. Web price is $259, last time I went in there with a printout, the laptop in question was selling in-store for like $349, but they price-matched it.

Edit: I took a look at that 11-inch laptop roundup, they're all (ultra-low-end) eMMC-using machines, except for a 2015-era REFURB Macbook. Which is, ugh, both refurb, and an Apple Computer product. No thanks.

Edit: Nothing against you, thanks for posting that list. But the problem is the mfg's of laptops, they just don't seem to make higher-end laptops in 11.6" models, and if they do, they're "ultra-lite business models", and cost an arm and a leg (figuratively-speaking, of course).

The point of this move, is to get away from the "Atom / eMMC" laptop crowd, to a big-core (Celeron, if need be), and real SSD laptop territory.

 

[Torn Mind]

I don't know what the scalene muscle is, but I would prefer probably finding her a 11.6", 13.3", or 14.0" laptop, over a 15.6" one. But I'm working with what I've got, price-wise, and that 14" Lenovo IdeaPad S145 with the Pentium Gold 5405U, 4GB / 128GB SSD, is available in the local WM store. Web price is $259, last time I went in there with a printout, the laptop in question was selling in-store for like $349, but they price-matched it.

Edit: I took a look at that 11-inch laptop roundup, they're all crap eMMC-using machines, except for a 2015-era REFURB Macbook. Which is, ugh, both refurb, and an Apple Computer product. No thanks.

Edit: Nothing against you, thanks for posting that list. But the problem is the mfg's of laptops, they just don't seem to make higher-end laptops in 11.6" models, and if they do, they're "ultra-lite business models", and cost an arm and a leg (figuratively-speaking, of course).

The point of this move, is to get away from the "Atom / eMMC" laptop crowd, to a big-core (Celeron, if need be), and real SSD laptop territory.

https://www.epainassist.com/back-pain/upper-back-pain/scalene-muscle-strain


If you want small, cheap, but with build quality, the only path is refurb business laptops/Macbook Airs.

Such as:
https://www.amazon.com/HP-Revolve-8...1,p_n_size_browse-bin:13580785011&s=pc&sr=1-8

I would always order online and use a cashback site like Mr. Rebates or Befrugal to get extra money back for buying products.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hmm, interesting. I don't really use cash-back sites.

Anyways, this whole thread may be semi-moot, it may come down to which laptops are available at all, when I get my money next month. Some of the options (or at least, particular colors) are starting to sell out, and WM is raising the prices on some of them. (No doubt, due to increased demand, probably because of my threads here on AT, or possibly, someone posted them to SD. Hopefully, ATF is making a few bucks on referrals off of my threads.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Previous gen Ipads are better content consumption devices than whatever sub-300 laptop is out there. Buy a Amazon renewed product, and the return policy is 90 days.

Re-considering the possibility. What price range are we talking about here, and how much RAM and storage does one of these things have? (Not really a follower of the Mac/iPad/iPhone scene, I know that Apple Computer likes to charge a LOT for extra built-in storage, and they don't provide micro-SD slots.) So, really, not a fan, but if one can be had for similar prices (under $300 for something decent), I might consider it.

Although, I've read that Firefox is just a skin over Apple's web renderer code, and may not be able to run ad-blockers. So that's an immediate negative.

The other big negative, is that I wouldn't be able to service her iPad, I know nothing about them. Whereas, I know PCs pretty well. (Although some of these modern laptop PCs are surprisingly locked-down, for a PC. Windows 10 "S MODE", I'm looking at you.)

 

[Shamrock]

Acer Ryzen 3 3200U and Vega 3 graphics, 128gb SSD. 1080p IPS display. $309

https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Display...&pf_rd_p=ad397a11-07f5-50a3-8d2e-6840296bf352

 

[Torn Mind]

Re-considering the possibility. What price range are we talking about here, and how much RAM and storage does one of these things have? (Not really a follower of the Mac/iPad/iPhone scene, I know that Apple Computer likes to charge a LOT for extra built-in storage, and they don't provide micro-SD slots.) So, really, not a fan, but if one can be had for similar prices (under $300 for something decent), I might consider it.

Although, I've read that Firefox is just a skin over Apple's web renderer code, and may not be able to run ad-blockers. So that's an immediate negative.

The other big negative, is that I wouldn't be able to service her iPad, I know nothing about them. Whereas, I know PCs pretty well. (Although some of these modern laptop PCs are surprisingly locked-down, for a PC. Windows 10 "S MODE", I'm looking at you.)

I have never personally used an IPad, but I know Kirk Douglas and his wife do.
Brand new, latest gen is $249 at Walmart, with 32GB of storage. Since she hasn't suffered from 32GB so far, I doubt she will with a new device. She can still use the netbook for typing, etc while using the IPad for content consumption.

Deals on the IPad Air 2 can be had if you look hard enough(Craigslist might bring the most mileage).

New Ipads are faster, but the Air 2 has an anti-reflective coating.

Of course, you need to sign up for an account to download apps.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, sorry to disappoint you all, but it looks like we're going to hold off on a new laptop for her, mostly because of limited money. Maybe next month. Also, because Walmart raised their prices on most of the laptops that I was looking at. Thirdly, because Mom is happy with her current (light-weight, good battery life) Lenovo IdeaPad with Atom quad-core. Possibly, when sites and YouTube start pushing VP9 for all of their videos, then she might be forced to upgrade.