I'm honored you can draw connections between me and a man as intelligent as Barack Obama. :laugh:
What is it about rational debate you dislike so much?
I'm honored you can draw connections between me and a man as intelligent as Barack Obama. :laugh:
What is it about rational debate you dislike so much?
cubeless
Diamond Member
- Sep 17, 2001
- 4,295
- 1
- 81
i just have to fall back on how infrequently this happens, and more mayhem and death happens every weekend night when drunks leave bars... if they ran every drunk driving crash that kills someone anywhere in the us on the news each night maybe people would get excited about that, too... make everyone leaving a bar blow and get a stamp on their card before they leave...
shit is occasionally going to happen no matter what you do... you can't legislate happiness...
I feel like incidents like these are reasonably preventable. No one's mad at cops cracking down on drunk driving I see no reason why we shouldn't try to get guns in the hands of the good guys and keep them out of the hands of those who are unfit to handle them.
Maybe it's a pipe dream but I think its worth trying.
Ok.. so you would require a license for gun owners. What about a license to have children? Surely mentally handicapped people shouldn't be allowed to have children either should they? They can do a lot more damage as a parent than they can for a one in a million chance shooting a gun range right? Should we have mental evaluations before people can have children?
What about them driving cars? Surely if you are unable to handle a gun, you can't be trusted in an SUV? I wonder how many people with mental handicaps, perhaps not even severe cause car accidents that kill people? Should we have mental evaluations for drivers licenses?
Surely if you don't agree with these obvious things you are not level headed and are just a gun-hating crazy person?
Would you support the pulling over of EVERY driver who leaves a bar to have them do a breath test before they are allowed to drive home? I mean, if it saves one life its worth it right? Maybe some sort of test or license to drink alcohol.. if you have a tendency toward alcoholism or a history of DWI's in your family they could just revoke the license and you couldn't drink?
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
- Mar 30, 2004
- 9,859
- 1
- 81
This could be partly solved by using those breath-testing units that some DUI convicts have to get to get their licence back.
I'm not sure if it's ever been considered (putting them on all vehicles) but I imagine it would be cost-prohibitive.
I support the efforts to combat driving while under the influence. Unfortunately there are too many cars and too many people to check every one of them every time someone is out and about. We're talking about an evaluation per gun owner once every five years. If you only want to check people for DUI every five years....
For something that is much less prevalent and controlled like a firearm I believe it is much more feasible to institute a system like I have proposed.
No.. but do we do a mental evaluation of drivers? Surely a lot more people die of auto accidents than gun shots. Why not have the same government funded doctors doing the gun licenses do evaluations on drivers as well? Here's a stat I found on car accidents in the United States:
So car accidents cause a death every 13 minutes in the United States, but my suggestion that we do a mental evaluation of licensed drives is 'irrational' - But your suggestion that we do them to gun owners because 1 person gets shot in a range is reasonable? What am I missing here?
Mainly because you're being so irrational and illogical. You've dodged and deflected every single legitimate point brought up in this thread.
I know I'm not going to change anybody's mind especially yours nor is that my intention. But pointing out holes is fun from a debate and logic perspective.
So I bring you something from my own home town...today.
http://www.wlky.com/news/19125611/detail.html
My main point is you cannot stop people from killing each other by whatever means they choose - my "knife at a bed bath and beyond" scenario.
I counter your point about mentally ill people having weapons bent on a suicide or murder/suicide with a simple - doesn't the fact that they want to commit a murder/suicide make them mentally ill by definition? Points for other posters that showed "mentally ill" covers WAY to much ground as most all people will suffer some sort of mental illness in their life.
Is your proposition that people be checked for mental fitness every time they get in their car or every time they renew their drivers license? If it's the latter than I could agree to that.
The seller of the weapon is responsible for it's transfer of ownership. I sell you a gun I am responsible for it's use unless you sign a release. So absolutely there are laws that govern the sale.
You can always tell people that don't know what they are talking about, because they don't know the weapons nor do they know the law.
Not true..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...w_in_the_United_States
The restrictions are different, but many rules still apply including felons, underage people, etc.
The legitimate points are that we have privacy laws and that it is only a couple people were killed. I didn't dodge these.
Statements like 'Well why don't they ban computers and cars!!" don't apply to what I'm saying because I don't advocate banning guns.
And your counterpoint about mental illness, well, I can agree with it somewhat. If someone wants to kill someone they are indeed mentally ill and unfit to bear a weapon but I'm for a system that protects good gun owners from the stigma that bad gun owners cause.
I don't need to be a gun expert to argue for regulation of guns. Just like you don't need to be a woman to take a stance on abortion.
Why not every 5 years like you suggest for gun ownership. Ok.. so we have mental checks for drivers, and gun owners. Whats next? I think we can knock out all the world's problems here before this thread hits page 4.. all we need is some more licenses and some more doctors.
The difference being that you already have to be licensed to drive. What's wrong with ensuring that you are suffering from a degenerative neural condition or are mentally retarded?
No! I agree.. lets license just about every risky activity and pretty much eliminate all bad things. Maybe we could license having children? I think bad parents probably kill way more children than guns at gun ranges.. So maybe before people would be allowed to have children we could evaluate them as well?
Actually I've changed my mind. I want to repeal any sort of regulation on anything that exists.
Economic consequences can affect more than just the stores. In order for us to have a full database, testing, validation, and evaluations for a license system, money has to come from somewhere. The only place that money can come from is taxpayers. Even a small reduction in a taxpayers income means they have to give up something, and this means a trade-off, we must give up something else to get this license system.
For example, I believe there are somewhere around 75 million women in the united states that should be getting mamograms, lets just say that because of a tax increase, .001% of those women choose not to go (a very very tiny percentage). This would be 7,500 women, and I believe that Breast cancer occurs in about 3% of women, which means that we would be looking at something like 220 cases of breast cancer that could have been caught earlier being missed.
Please note, my numbers are complete fabrications to illustrate a point. Whenever you choose to do something, there is something else you must give up, if you choose to go to church, you give up sleeping in, if you choose to eat a cheeseburger, you give up a hotdog. Very few people will choose to give up something important as a mamogram, but it will happen, and we need to weigh the pros against the cons. In cases such as taxes, the cons are invisible, we don't know how many people choose to make a bad decision because they were getting taxed a few extra dollars. We know it is a very small number, but what happens if that small number is bigger than the number of people we helped?
Edit: you are arguing with Fear no Evil, please do not let his behavior color your view of the rational people who are staunchly pro-gun.
She was mentally ill. If guns were banned, she would have found another way to kill herself. She could have drove her son and herself of a bridge. She could have push her son of a cliff and then killed herself. She could have gotten a knife and stabbed him; and then walked in front of a train.
So many ways. How many mentally il people have killed themselves within the past week but yet the media doesn't even mention them? However, since there's a gun involved in this, we have all the anti-gun nuts waving this as an excuse to take away the right of the average, law abiding, American.
Washington and Jefferson gives their middle finger to all these wackos who are wants to take away rights..
So many ways. How many mentally il people have killed themselves within the past week but yet the media doesn't even mention them? However, since there's a gun involved in this, we have all the anti-gun nuts waving this as an excuse to take away the right of the average, law abiding, American.
Washington and Jefferson gives their middle finger to all these wackos who are wants to take away rights..
YOU were the one that said we needed MORE regulation because it could possibly save lives. I'm asking how far you are willing to take that. There are many more things which cost the lives of MANY more people than guns do that are not regulated. Yet, you choose to argue for gun regulation. That strikes me as something someone would do who clearly has an anti-gun agenda and not an agenda of just 'saving people' as you claim.
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