The reason Satan fell is the same reason most individuals will spend eternity in the lake of fire, PRIDE.
Which is the same reason you post here, right?
What is free will anyway? Why is an adult who was abused as a child so much more likely to abuse children themselves, as opposed to someone raised in a completely loving and supportive enviroment? Your Bible thump didn't seem to take into account all the elements that go into molding a person's self, that create the platform and resources of experience from which we make supposedly free decisions.
"If you know what life is worth, you will look for yours on earth"
Which is the same reason you post here, right?
What is free will anyway? Why is an adult who was abused as a child so much more likely to abuse children themselves, as opposed to someone raised in a completely loving and supportive enviroment? Your Bible thump didn't seem to take into account all the elements that go into molding a person's self, that create the platform and resources of experience from which we make supposedly free decisions.
"If you know what life is worth, you will look for yours on earth"
Just a quick response to your edits
I don't get it either. There is a reason why He gave those that seek Him a book known as the Bible.
1)You could basically substitute anything for christians in your first sentence.
2)A born again Christian can't be sent to Hell.
3)I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement. God tells the Christian to be kind to those that hate you, because in so doing you will pour hot coals on their head. Also you could look up Job 4:8 and Galatians 6:7
It's funny that you should say that, because I could make the same argument about evolutionists, in that they say everything that is listed in that article as proof of evolution. The fact of the matter is that I read through that article a few months ago when I was heavily involved in a Creation Evolution debate hear in the ATOT forums and was able to dispute every one of their "rebuts". The fact of the matter is pretty clear, if an evolutionist wants to know just how foolish evolution is they have to hear it from the evolutionists themselves. In other words study what the various evolutionists have to say on the various subjects, look at how their views have changed over time, and pay close attention to the presumptions and assumptions they are concluding when they speak.
Over and Out
Dave
I don't get it either. There is a reason why He gave those that seek Him a book known as the Bible.
1)You could basically substitute anything for christians in your first sentence.
2)A born again Christian can't be sent to Hell.
3)I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement. God tells the Christian to be kind to those that hate you, because in so doing you will pour hot coals on their head. Also you could look up Job 4:8 and Galatians 6:7
It's funny that you should say that, because I could make the same argument about evolutionists, in that they say everything that is listed in that article as proof of evolution. The fact of the matter is that I read through that article a few months ago when I was heavily involved in a Creation Evolution debate hear in the ATOT forums and was able to dispute every one of their "rebuts". The fact of the matter is pretty clear, if an evolutionist wants to know just how foolish evolution is they have to hear it from the evolutionists themselves. In other words study what the various evolutionists have to say on the various subjects, look at how their views have changed over time, and pay close attention to the presumptions and assumptions they are concluding when they speak.
Over and Out
Dave
First point - great rationale for loving those who hate you. Altruistism really pays out for a Christian, doesn't it?
Second point - I would ask you to say the same thing for Christians, for Jews, Muslims, etc. No religion is perfect. To say that Christianity has all the answers, is "the one true religion", is extraordinarily ignorant.
Although you should be well aware of this engine, being mocked does not boost ones pride.
Free will is the freedom to choose. Why do people raised in completely loving and supportive environments turn to a life of crime? And since you made a point, maybe you could back it up with a study or two that supports your claim?
Charles Darwin did not prove that one kind of animal could create another kind of animal. Charles Darwin recognized the existence of micro evolution, which was admittedly, to anyone with eyes, fairly obvious.
Originally posted by: JC
A 'Get Out of Going to Hell' card?
No, a laughably desperate attempt to get laughably gullible people to join the "flock".
Right.. "Natural selection is usually the most important mechanism of evolution. We now know that its effect on individuals depends on their phenotypes which in turn are determined mostly by their genotypes. The environment ultimately selects individuals with the best suited genotypes to survive to adulthood and to reproduce. Those who have more surviving offspring pass on more of their genes to the next generation. " (source)
That can't be qualified solely as micro evolution.... if this process can change the anatomy of a creature, surely it can change bilogy, etc
I just said it cause it's in the Bible and for that matter it's true, but also very hard to live up to. The initial desire is to respond in kind, but the reality is that you will do more good with kindness than with hate.
You've taken that statement out of context. I was suggesting to the poster to look at those rebuts in light of what other evolutionists have said and in light of the scientific facts and make conclusions based on that and not on the fact that the people he/she has previously debated with on the subject are greatly ignorant of the evidence that exists.
And now to respond to your statement, I would just like to say that if God does exist he either has or has not tried to make contact with man. If he has not made contact with man than all is lost and there really is no point in trying to understand him or how he thinks because it's obvious from his/her lack of contact that he/she does not want to be disturbed or understood.
If on the other hand God has made contact with man it greatly narrows the possibilities. And ultimately the most logical way for God to speak to man is through words being as that is how man communicates (although God as far as I believe already knew that because he created man). And the best way to ensure that those precious words are not lost is to write them down in a book. Again, the possibilities of which religious book could be from God narrow. A bit of sourcing and the logical answer is clear, either the Bible is the word of God, or God does not exist. I will state that the Word of God has all the answers, and to believe that a book written by an all knowing God to a creature created by Him for the purpose of developing a relationship with Him, and living a life pleasing to Him does not have all the answers necessary for its purpose is extraordinarily ignorant.
Being mocked certainly fuels righteous pride. Believing yourself to have some conveniently godlike capacity to objectively discern what is or is not valid "evidence" doesn't strike me as being very humble either.
Why do people raised in completely loving and supportive environments turn to a life of crime?
You tell me, they make the choice in a vaccum? One has only to know oneself to see that the absence of love and compassion in a person's upbringing will usually be reflected in their treatment of others.
Anyway, it doesn't work. Maybe there is no free will, or maybe some people just come into being inherently superior to others. Who knows....it's anything but clear cut what exactly makes up the self.
Why do people raised in completely loving and supportive environments turn to a life of crime?
You tell me, they make the choice in a vaccum? One has only to know oneself to see that the absence of love and compassion in a person's upbringing will usually be reflected in their treatment of others.
Anyway, it doesn't work. Maybe there is no free will, or maybe some people just come into being inherently superior to others. Who knows....it's anything but clear cut what exactly makes up the self.
What exactly is your point? Is this statement supposed to constitute as proof that one kind of animal can suddenly change into another kind of animal?
It's not all that hard to live up to, if you take Jesus's approach "forgive them, for they know not what they do". It's far different than forgiving them in this life so they may face retribution in the next.
A minor point, but still one that irks me every now and then.
My logical response is to ask why such an all-knowing god would create such an esoteric, geographically and socially isolated theology.
I can tell the difference between anger and pride. What are you talking about, everyone who wants to can discern between what constitutes as valid evidence and what doesn't. Deep thought is usually ignorant of its surroundings or bodily funtioning, the weeping chess player does not exist.
Decisions, decisions, where's your proof?
My logical response to you is, it is not so.
I'm not sure I follow the second part of your statement, but as to your first let me just say that I think the last time that thought went through my head was a few months ago, which is why I said it's hard to live up to. In and of itself it's not hard, but when your busy working you get that one track mind thing going and you don't always think before you act, and thusly, unfortunately, you usually react in kind. And of course it's not only Christians that try to respond to anger with kindness, athiests do it to, the only difference is that the athiests aren't required of God to do it as disciples, being of course, that they are not disciples of Christ, nor for the most part are they trying to be.
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