Modern "4ms" AMVA monitors for gaming?

[BSim500]

I've been out of the loop as far as monitor tech goes for a few years, but from what I recall compared to TN & IPS, the MVA technology had the best contrast but the worst response times? I remember playing around with one a few years back and although the response time was poor, the 3000:1 native contrast looked gorgeous in darker movies like the Matrix, and games like Thief, Deus Ex, etc, vs typical 900-1000:1 of TN/IPS. I recently noticed "AMVA" based monitors like the BenQ GW2760HS and iiyama ProLite XB2783HSU-B1, which seem to be getting quite high review scores on almost every site they're being sold ("blacks are pitch black", "hardly any light bleed"), and are being marketed with "4ms response time", "true 8 bit" (no FRC), "Color Shift-free Technology", "Flicker free", etc. From what I understand, these AMVA panels have improved response time & "color shifting" over the earlier VA's?

How do these modern AMVA panels square up against TN/IPS these days for general gaming at 24-27" 1080p/60Hz? I know IPS is generally recommended for better color accuracy, etc, but that 3000:1 contrast sure looked good from what I can recall. Anyone using an AMVA panel here, and if so, what's the "4ms" response feel like subjectively? Are response times now close enough to IPS/TN in actual practice for 60Hz gaming that the 3x higher contrast ratio outweighs any negatives (like maybe slightly worse off centre color shifting vs IPS)?

 

[Gryz]

I can not answer any of your questions, sorry.

I think that many gamers that are concerned with pixel-response-times and ghosting are using 144Hz monitors, with or without G-Sync. Up to today, there are hardly any VA monitors that can do 144Hz. And certainly no G-Sync monitors that use VA panels. The exception is the Eizo FG2421. It's a 23.5" VA screen that can take 120 fps input, and display it on the screen at 240Hz. With every alternating frame being black. This reduces motion-blur when things move on the screen.

But there might be good news.
Acer will bring out a VA-monitor, especially targeted at gamers.
It's called "Acer Predator Z35".
Google it.

It's a 21:9 wide-screen monitor. Curved.
It is 2560x1080 resolution. (You'll find people asking, wondering and even stating that it is a 1440p monitor. It is not).
It has a 144Hz VA panel. 3000:1 contrast supposedly.
It uses G-Sync.
No mention of anti-blur reduction (ULMB).
It will have built-in speakers. (Wasted, imho).
It will probably be pricy.
It's expected end of August, or in September.

So yes, we will get at least one more VA-monitor targeted at gamers.
Let's hope more will follow.

 

[Madpacket]

I just bought the Asus MG279Q and am very happy with it but a good AMVA panel with as fast response time would be a nice option. I don't see anything on the horizon other than what Gryz mentioned.

One thing people forget about VA or AMVA is the problem of direct viewing issues. They suffer from weird colour shifting if staring straight at the monitor. I found this very jarring on the VA panel I used to own and I'm unsure if this problem has been fixed on newer panels. Just something to keep in mind.

All currently avaialble monitor technologies have a series of tradeoffs.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm

 

[postmortemIA]

AU optronics is only big player remaining that makes VA panels ... Hence that's why BenQ and Acer usually carry these. I don't see that some make break through is going to happen with this technology. But at least we have some nice and unique panels. For example nobody else makes 32" 1440p panels.

 

[BSim500]

OK, thanks for the feedback guys. I've read little about them on tech sites overall and don't know anyone who actually owns one, yet the review scores on Amazon, Newegg, etc, seem pretty high. Just wondered if there was something I was missing.

 

[soccerballtux]

AU optronics is only big player remaining that makes VA panels ... Hence that's why BenQ and Acer usually carry these. I don't see that some make break through is going to happen with this technology. But at least we have some nice and unique panels. For example nobody else makes 32" 1440p panels.

would have skipped this gen if it weren't for these 32" 1440ps. I'll be able to get a low end 4k capable card and game like I'm high end.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

If you're interested in 4ms pixel response with a panel better than TN then you should consider some of the newer IPS panels which are capable of 4ms g2g, my new BenQ 4k IPS has a 4ms pixel response time which is fantastic for gaming, I've not noticed any ghosting during casual play.

 

[Gryz]

If you're interested in 4ms pixel response with a panel better than TN ...... some IPS panels

"Better" is a subjective word.

Did you read the OP's post ? Or did you just read "he wants better colors" ?

"Better colors" is also a subjective word.
The monitors you are referring to have AUO AHVA panels. The OP is inquiring about AMVA panels. Different things.

Just like the OP, I like to play dark games. Like the OP mentioned, the old Thief games, Deus Ex. And now games like The Witcher 3, Dishonored, Dying Light, Skyrim, The Old City: Leviathan, Outlast, etc. Dark games. Or games with lots of dark scenes (in dungeons, at night, etc). I also play mainly during the evenings and nights. When it's dark. The room with my computer has low ambient lighting. And when I play immersive games, I turn off the light, and play in the dark.

I've had an Acer XB270HU on my desk. Indeed, nice colors. But not always. Not when you play dark games, with low ambient lighting. There is glow. Lots of glow ! Some call it backlight-bleeding, some call it IPS-glow. I think it was probably a combination of the two. In the dark, the corners of my screen were just yellow. Many (most?) of the XB270HUs have this problem. Check out the XB270HU thread on overclock.net. The XB270HU review on TFTCentral mentions it, but very briefly.

I was hugely disappointed. I sent my Acer back. I got another one a month later. Hoping the first one was just an unlucky sample. Exactly the same problem. I gave up on the XB270HU. And that's supposed to be the best IPS monitor for gamers.

Acer releases a new FreeSync monitor with a similar panel (AHVA by AUO). TFTCentral reviewed it this week.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xr341ck.htm

On a black image there is a characteristic white glow when viewed from an angle, commonly referred to as "IPS-glow". This is common on most modern IPS-type panels and can be distracting to some users. If you view dark content from a normal head-on viewing position, you can actually see this glow as your eyes look towards the edges of the screen. Because of the sheer horizontal size of this 34" panel, the glow towards the edges is more obvious than on small screens, where there isn't such a long distance from your central position to the edges. Some people may find this problematic if they are working with a lot of dark content or solid colour patterns. In normal day to day uses, office work, movies and games you couldn't really notice this unless you were viewing darker content.

It seems Simon of TFTCentral is now aware that these new IPS monitors, even though they are great for most users, are not good for *all* users. Because of their inability to display darks properly.

Asus will release a competitor of the Acer XB270HU.
Same panel, also 144Hz Gsync IPS. Check out this picture:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1558309/...pg279q-144hz-ips-and-g-sync/200#post_23998972

Exactly the same problem. What you see is supposed to be a black screen. It's not black. You might think the yellow and white glows in that picture are an artifact of a bad camera. It's not. That's what it looks like. A little exaggerated maybe, but if you play in the dark, it's actually just as bad (or worse) as what you see there.

It's not backlight-bleeding because of a badly constructed monitor. It's something with the panel itself. IPS-glow. And the more I read about IPS, the more I read that it is common to IPS panels.

I am sure you don't find this a problem. I'm sure a majority of people don't find this a problem. Maybe even a majority of gamers. But for me it's a big problem. A reason to never buy an IPS-monitor. (Unless this weakness is completely fixed). The OP specifically mentions contrast and AMVA. I suspect IPS-panels are not for him either.

 

[soccerballtux]

that's pretty normal from an angle, what's it look like head on?

 

[BSim500]

The monitors you are referring to have AUO AHVA panels. The OP is inquiring about AMVA panels. Different things.

I've had an Acer XB270HU on my desk. Indeed, nice colors. But not always. Not when you play dark games, with low ambient lighting. There is glow. Lots of glow ! Some call it backlight-bleeding, some call it IPS-glow. I think it was probably a combination of the two. In the dark, the corners of my screen were just yellow

Yeah that was one reason I asked about AMVA (ie, the "yellow black glow" of IPS, which initially comes across as "backlight bleed" but isn't quite the same thing). One thing that struck me though was the real uniform darkness of the AMVA panels, especially in the corners. And when viewed from a strong angle, the "color of black" is more a dark blue-purple than bright yellow. Examples:-

Dell U2715H (IPS) Front:-
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/dell_u2715h/P1080102.JPG

BenQ GW2760HS (AMVA) Front:-
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/benq_gw2760s/P1020239.JPG

Dell U2715H (IPS) Side:-
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/dell_u2715h/P1080106.JPG

BenQ GW2760HS (AMVA) Side:-
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/benq_gw2760s/P1020263.JPG

Edit: Just found a 32" AMVA thread from last year here on Anand. Someone's posted a daytime photo of their own:-

They look twice as good in a dark room, but the bottom line question is VA vs IPS response time for "average" 60Hz gaming. I thought about OLED, but then if I wait for that, I'll be waiting forever...

Thanks for all your input guys. I guess I was really wanting someone to say "Yeah I've got one and gaming is fine", but I think I really need to try and test one in person, as "acceptable ghosting" is an entirely subjective threshold...

 

[Gryz]

The Eizo FG2421 is a real gaming monitor. That one has a VA panel. Panel made by Sharp. And ghosting is supposed to be pretty minimal. More info you can find here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm
So it's definitely possible to make a VA panel with little ghosting.
Unfortunately very few manufacturers are make VA-monitors for gamers. The only one I know of is the upcoming Acer Predator Z35.

 

[DrRamtop]

Thanks for all your input guys. I guess I was really wanting someone to say "Yeah I've got one and gaming is fine", but I think I really need to try and test one in person, as "acceptable ghosting" is an entirely subjective threshold...

Yes, it's always going to be highly subjective. Some people can't stand anything but a fast TN, others are ok with a non-overdrive IPS or VA.

I have a 4ms VA screen (BenQ BL3200PT) and find it absolutely fine for gaming. The one and only time I have any issues with it is in Elite Dangerous, where VA's slow dark-dark transitions cause some smearing when flying through asteroid fields. But I don't personally find it a big deal, and the plus side is the 32" VA panels are really impressive otherwise. Black depth, contrast, backlight uniformity, etc, are all absolutely spot on. And AUO has done a good job reducing black crush to the point where you'd have to be very picky to have an issue with it.

Last month on a whim I bought Asus' new 144Hz IPS Freesync screen, the MG279Q. I found it to be a catastrophically bad screen and sent it back after less than a week. Response time was a bit better than the BenQ, but its image quality was so much poorer (sometimes shockingly so) that I just couldn't live with it. Even 144Hz capability and Freesync wasn't enough to make it preferable to the BenQ.

 

[soccerballtux]

Yes, it's always going to be highly subjective. Some people can't stand anything but a fast TN, others are ok with a non-overdrive IPS or VA.

I have a 4ms VA screen (BenQ BL3200PT) and find it absolutely fine for gaming. The one and only time I have any issues with it is in Elite Dangerous, where VA's slow dark-dark transitions cause some smearing when flying through asteroid fields. But I don't personally find it a big deal, and the plus side is the 32" VA panels are really impressive otherwise. Black depth, contrast, backlight uniformity, etc, are all absolutely spot on. And AUO has done a good job reducing black crush to the point where you'd have to be very picky to have an issue with it.

Last month on a whim I bought Asus' new 144Hz IPS Freesync screen, the MG279Q. I found it to be a catastrophically bad screen and sent it back after less than a week. Response time was a bit better than the BenQ, but its image quality was so much poorer (sometimes shockingly so) that I just couldn't live with it. Even 144Hz capability and Freesync wasn't enough to make it preferable to the BenQ.

ah yes, I think we might have the same panel. I love mine. awesome purchase

 

[JoeRambo]

BenQ BL3200PT is great work monitor, i have only good words for it. Got them for work, when Russian's post attracted my attention due to quality/price.

Amazing panel, even if 60hz only. Blacks, viewing angles are considerably better than ROG Swift i have at home. Swift is of course much faster, 120hz is big boon even in windows, but that is compensated by 32"'s perfect pixel size.

 

[4K_shmoorK]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the Samsung S34E790C Ultrawide? It's a VA panel (one I currently own) and has no backlight bleed, viewing angle issues, and the colors are great. The reviews concur.

I believe in one review the response time was measured at 7.1 ms, not sure if this is an issue for you. No ghosting or lag that I've noticed.

And yes the contrast is AMAZING.

 

[postmortemIA]

Maybe because it costs $1500?

 

[4K_shmoorK]

Maybe because it costs $1500?

$1100 and sure to go down with the new G-Sync/Freesync Ultrawides coming out

 

[soccerballtux]

$1100 and sure to go down with the new G-Sync/Freesync Ultrawides coming out

you're a 4k shmuk aren't you!!!

edit: realized this is 'four kay shmoor kay'

 

[QuantumPion]

While the LG and AOC IPS's have poor contrast, the Samsung PLS variety actually have very good contrast and no IPS glow. I have an X-Star DP2710 which has good response time (something like 10 ms), amazing colors, and about as good contrast as you can hope for outside of MVA's. I had the same experience as Gryz with regards to the recent TN and IPS G-sync models. Even with these recent g-sync models out, I still think the cheapo korean off-brand PLS's are the best monitors for general gaming (for everything except professional/competitive FPS).

 

[meson2000]

Do you know of reviews of recent Samsung PLS monitors? I have a Samsung 2560x1440 27" PLS monitor and it does have a lot of IPS glow when I am using it in the dark and looking at dark content like Elite Dangerous. My monitor is from 2012. Maybe it is better now.

 

[meson2000]

I have been thinking of switching to a VA monitor for better blacks. I want 1440p and would like freesync/gsync but don't know if I will ever find that in a VA monitor at 1440p. I have been considering the Samsung S34790C widescreen above since the price is below $1000 now.

 

[soccerballtux]

I have been thinking of switching to a VA monitor for better blacks. I want 1440p and would like freesync/gsync but don't know if I will ever find that in a VA monitor at 1440p. I have been considering the Samsung S34790C widescreen above since the price is below $1000 now.

I too like the blacks of VA panels. My Soyo Topaz S was a M-PVA for $200 (killer deal) and my sign monitor is 32" for $450. I like the blacks

 

[meson2000]

My problem is I can't decide if I want the great contrast and black levels of a VA monitor, or if Gsync/Freesync is more important to a better experience. I have a 1440p Samsung PLS monitor from 2012 (their first PLS monitor) and while I love it for its color and viewing angles, there is a ton of IPS glow when I use it in the dark or am playing a game with a lot of dark content. It takes away from the experience. I have been really leaning towards that Samsung S34E790C ultrawide VA monitor listed above because the price has dropped below $1000. (and newegg will throw in a $100 giftcard on top of that) but I am having a hard time justifying buying a new monitor in mid 2015 that doesn't include either Freesync or Gsync. The only VA monitor announced that has adaptive sync is a 1080p ultrawide and I would never go back to 1080p after using 1440p.

 

[Advection]

I've been out of the loop as far as monitor tech goes for a few years, but from what I recall compared to TN & IPS, the MVA technology had the best contrast but the worst response times? I remember playing around with one a few years back and although the response time was poor, the 3000:1 native contrast looked gorgeous in darker movies like the Matrix, and games like Thief, Deus Ex, etc, vs typical 900-1000:1 of TN/IPS. I recently noticed "AMVA" based monitors like the BenQ GW2760HS and iiyama ProLite XB2783HSU-B1, which seem to be getting quite high review scores on almost every site they're being sold ("blacks are pitch black", "hardly any light bleed"), and are being marketed with "4ms response time", "true 8 bit" (no FRC), "Color Shift-free Technology", "Flicker free", etc. From what I understand, these AMVA panels have improved response time & "color shifting" over the earlier VA's?

How do these modern AMVA panels square up against TN/IPS these days for general gaming at 24-27" 1080p/60Hz? I know IPS is generally recommended for better color accuracy, etc, but that 3000:1 contrast sure looked good from what I can recall. Anyone using an AMVA panel here, and if so, what's the "4ms" response feel like subjectively? Are response times now close enough to IPS/TN in actual practice for 60Hz gaming that the 3x higher contrast ratio outweighs any negatives (like maybe slightly worse off centre color shifting vs IPS)?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe a late answer but just my 2 cents... I own a BenQ GW2760HS (AMVA panel) I've had it for around 6 months and in general I'm pretty happy with it. Great colors and contrast... virtually no corner bleeding... And the reduced blue light tech is good to be honest... I get noticeably less eye-sore after many hours on the screen. Input lag is very low... not noticeable at all... pixel response time however... is average. You will get some ghosting in fast moving video/game scenes... It's not terribly bad but it's noticeable. Most viewing angles look good but there is a slight contrast shift starting from the middle of the screen and gradient-ing (is that a word? lol) to the left and right sides. It's not really noticeable for an average person but I do graphics work and it can be annoying at times. It all comes down to trade-offs... do you want better quality or faster response time... ? Personal preference really...

 

[linkgoron]

As this was bumped, there are a few new monitors in the 24/27 VA 144hz freesync area:
There's the new lenovo 27f (there are also gsync versions). I haven't seen reviews yet.
https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Y27f-27-Inch-FHD-LED-Lit/dp/B01FXDVZ2K

There are also the new Samsung 144hz freesync 24" and 27" SVAs which are "expected to be released in October":
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/36.htm#samsung_c24fg70