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Gizmo j

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2013
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@moderators please delete thread


I take back what I said before, I over exaggerated the reactions of the politicians on 9/11, The reason I made this thread was because I had a really stupid argument with my family and I wanted to vent.

Its complicated but my family believes that every problem and atrocity in the world is caused by teenagers influenced by the media and these problems can be prevented by basically indoctrinating them, and I have heard similar shit said by politicians and I generalized them.
 
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MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
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Because it was a huge incredibly horrific event involving people diving to their deaths on TV live, for starters.

And the people trying to save them being crushed under tons of tower.

And pissed the whole country off so much it gave some a free ticket to others to use that in their favor to skew politics.

I have no idea at all were the entertainment community per say had anything to do with it at all.
 
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Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
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I'm 20 years old so I don't really remember a time before 9/11 but for about a year now I have been studying a lot about politics and history.

It seems that every politician and public figure was in mutual agreement that 9/11 was "proof" that we needed to indoctrinate children and censor what the entertainment industry was promoting, they made it sound as if Al Qaeda is a group teenage citizens that were influenced by the entertainment industry when in actuality it was men from A FAR AWAY COUNTRY who attacked the U.S. because we don't live under sharia law.

Al Qaeda believes that every civilization on the planet should be ruled under sharia law and it's not as if the entertainment industry was promoting anything like that....

Most teenagers don't even know what "sharia law" even is so why in the world were people saying we needed to control our youth and sensor the entertainment industry "to prevent this from happened again"?

If you have been studying a lot about politics and history, you should be able to cite who exactly said what you are claiming. I'm not saying there weren't people who advocated for such things, but your post is vague and broad. I don't doubt that the politics of fear was heavily involved in pushing forward legislation post-9/11 and motivating the nation to go to war, but I doubt many were talking about indoctrinating children at the time, even if that's your interpretation of what they were doing.
 
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natto fire

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2000
7,117
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Succinctly, because Americans are morons. 10x the people died in motor vehicle crashes that year compared to the twin tower incident. We will "never forget" the terrorist attacks, but distracted driving's hazards are forgotten in an instance, and even though it is more lethal, it is not as "senseless" so we continue bad habits.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Succinctly, because Americans are morons. 10x the people died in motor vehicle crashes that year compared to the twin tower incident. We will "never forget" the terrorist attacks, but distracted driving's hazards are forgotten in an instance, and even though it is more lethal, it is not as "senseless" so we continue bad habits.

The number of people who died is almost irrelevant as to the reason they died.

/shakes head
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
I don't think the Patriot Act and even the Iraq War began with malevolent intent. Politics is both reactionary and fear based. Americans wanted their government to do something to stop a perceived threat. They did something, and people felt safer because of it.

The problem was a lot of these plans were developed half cocked. Nobody read the fine print or had enough foresight examine potential consequences. Thus things got out of control.

Bureaucrats will always work towards their own ends. Not that of the state or of the people. The three branches of government and the constitution are supposed to check their power. This time they failed to. Which is why you have an NSA and FBI who feel they can do whatever they please. They basically can, and there's little political will to actually change that. I think because the majority of people are actually pretty okay with being spied on if it stops the "terrorists". Ben Franklin's famous line about trading liberty for security may be trite but it's certainly spot on.
 

master_shake_

Diamond Member
May 22, 2012
6,425
292
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In the years after of the September 11 Attacks, and during political debates of the War in Iraq, a section of Rebuilding America's Defenses entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force" became the subject of considerable controversy. The passage suggested that the transformation of American armed forces through "new technologies and operational concepts" was likely to be a long one, "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor."[45] Journalist John Pilger pointed to this passage when he argued that Bush administration had used the events of September 11 as an opportunity to capitalize on long-desired plans.[48]
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,909
34,038
136
I don't think the Patriot Act and even the Iraq War began with malevolent intent. Politics is both reactionary and fear based. Americans wanted their government to do something to stop a perceived threat. They did something, and people felt safer because of it.

The problem was a lot of these plans were developed half cocked. Nobody read the fine print or had enough foresight examine potential consequences. Thus things got out of control.

Bureaucrats will always work towards their own ends. Not that of the state or of the people. The three branches of government and the constitution are supposed to check their power. This time they failed to. Which is why you have an NSA and FBI who feel they can do whatever they please. They basically can, and there's little political will to actually change that. I think because the majority of people are actually pretty okay with being spied on if it stops the "terrorists". Ben Franklin's famous line about trading liberty for security may be trite but it's certainly spot on.
The bureaucrats didn't take this country into a war of choice and didn't create the Patriot Act. Politicians did and they knew exactly what they were doing. Then the voters promptly re-elected them. If the Patriot Act was not the intended will of the elected officials, it would have been amended or rescinded long ago.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,464
596
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I'm still surprised just how easy it is/was to make the most powerful nation on Earth scurry in circles with almost no idea how to deal with what happened. 9/11 really made us look like a bunch of amateurs.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,137
10,608
126
I'm still surprised just how easy it is/was to make the most powerful nation on Earth scurry in circles with almost no idea how to deal with what happened. 9/11 really made us look like a bunch of amateurs.

Made us look like a bunch of cowards. It's all fun and games when you're singing jingoistic songs, but we got a big F when it was time to prove it.
 

Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
23,720
1,502
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I'm still surprised just how easy it is/was to make the most powerful nation on Earth scurry in circles with almost no idea how to deal with what happened. 9/11 really made us look like a bunch of amateurs.

It shouldn't be a surprise, though. Similar galvanizing attacks have happened to seemingly invincible empires since the sack(s) of Rome and even hundreds of years before that to other ancient world powers. Technology and the players change, but the psychology of people and human motivations for war, conquest, retaliation, etc remain the same.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,852
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The number of people who died is almost irrelevant as to the reason they died.

/shakes head

Actually that highlights his point even more as we could comparatively very easily actually accomplish something with regards to a lot of deaths. Fighting "terrorism" is like fighting the war on drugs, it's a completely farcical term and will not end as there will always be terror. The war on terror has actually only bolstered it and it straight up destabilized the entire world through both political and financial means (war on terror had a significant role in the economic crises).

This is pure exploitation. People could spend less money than they are now and make changes that would better their lives and more directly help prevent their deaths. To say nothing of what we could accomplish if we'd spent half of what we have fighting terrorism or drugs. We very likely could easily spend the money elsewhere and see better returns on fighting both things.

I don't think the Patriot Act and even the Iraq War began with malevolent intent. Politics is both reactionary and fear based. Americans wanted their government to do something to stop a perceived threat. They did something, and people felt safer because of it.

The problem was a lot of these plans were developed half cocked. Nobody read the fine print or had enough foresight examine potential consequences. Thus things got out of control.

Bureaucrats will always work towards their own ends. Not that of the state or of the people. The three branches of government and the constitution are supposed to check their power. This time they failed to. Which is why you have an NSA and FBI who feel they can do whatever they please. They basically can, and there's little political will to actually change that. I think because the majority of people are actually pretty okay with being spied on if it stops the "terrorists". Ben Franklin's famous line about trading liberty for security may be trite but it's certainly spot on.

You're misplacing credit for this stuff. It was the intelligence communities that pushed for this and basically managed to convince the politicians of doomsday in order to get a blank check and legal protection for their actions.

Fact is, they've done more to harm the US than anyone. I would even guess you could absolutely say that they've been directly responsible for more American deaths than the terror attacks they claim they're preventing. And that's without even laying blame at their feet for these acts of terrorism in the first place. They've had intelligence about almost every major terror attack and just plain fucked it up. They had information concerning 9/11 and did not act on it. They had information about the Boston bombers and fucked it up. They actually helped setup Al Queda in the first place. They had a role in Saddam Hussein's rise. And there's countless other situations (Bay of Pigs, various dictators they put into power, and who knows what all else they've done on smaller scales).

The bureaucrats didn't take this country into a war of choice and didn't create the Patriot Act. Politicians did and they knew exactly what they were doing. Then the voters promptly re-elected them. If the Patriot Act was not the intended will of the elected officials, it would have been amended or rescinded long ago.

It wasn't even the politicians either really, it was the intelligence community that convinced them of all of these things. They basically took advantage of the situation to finally get the politicians to buy into their fearmongering and let them be free of any real oversight while giving them money for whatever they want to do.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
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www.markbetz.net
I suppose you could argue that there's been a good deal of behavior modification, or conditioning. All governments do that to some extent. But what has been censored?
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
It seems that every politician and public figure was in mutual agreement that 9/11 was "proof" that we needed to indoctrinate children and censor what the entertainment industry was promoting, they made it sound as if Al Qaeda is a group of teenage citizens that were influenced by the entertainment industry when in actuality it was men from A FAR AWAY COUNTRY who attacked the U.S. because we don't live under sharia law.


I don't remember this whole censorship business.... Made to seem like teenagers influenced by entertainment? What?

I remember talking heads saying they hated us for our freedom and other bullshit spin like that. I remember anti-brown people hysterics. I don't remember Brittany Spears being blamed.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,623
13,818
126
www.anyf.ca
Governments love having total control of their people. They can use fear mongering to justify doing it and 9/11 was a perfect opportunity.

We live in a world now where we're not so much censored, but we have to censor ourselves because everybody is listening. The government, corporations, etc.

You never hear of laws being removed, only added. The government is constantly trying to find ways to further restrict us and they use events like 9/11 as an excuse.

Bill C-51 is a good example of this. In a nutshell it's a bill to turn Canada into a full blown police state. Funny thing is, it's not going to stop events like the parliament shooting. It wont stop anything. It's just to give more power for the government to control people.
 

KlokWyze

Diamond Member
Sep 7, 2006
4,451
9
81
www.dogsonacid.com
entertainment and censorship. 9/11's big effects had nothing really to with those things at all. @OP, if that's your biggest question you need to go back and take a look at it's real effects. indoctrination has always been around and always will be. it's a component of the nation-state.

but even the major effects of 9/11 are the same thing that happens for any event like that throughout history. nothing special. just those in power taking advantage of an event to exploit people. it's really really really easy to do. you might be upset now, but age a little and you just roll your eyes at the endless stupidity (if you're smart).

here's a beer. cheers.
 

MrColin

Platinum Member
May 21, 2003
2,403
3
81
Before 9/11, the Cold War was used to drive the culture of fear as were the drug war, and any war or invasion the state engaged in publicly was necessarily propagandized. There was also a time when the US went to war with Spain almost entirely because of "Yellow Journalism."

I remember it was disclosed that this song and several other similarly themed songs were blacklisted by radiostation conglomerate Clear Channel breifly after the 9/11.

Also, George Carlin did a skit about 9/11 before it happened, I heard it on cassette tape, you can probably find it on youtube.
 
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