Modded X850 vs 6800GS

[imported_Jester]

Forgive me if this has been answered many times already, but I'm upgrading from an archaic Geforce TI4200 and I'm on a budget and around $200 seems to be my breaking point for a video card. So, I've been swamped with reading up on what there is to offer and reading the guides, but from people who have been also looking at this, I'm wondering which is the better way to go - Something like a Connect X800GTO unlocked up to an X850 or a GeForce 6800GS.

I saw in most instances (except for ATI geared games like Half-Life), GeForce 6800GS is a better value than an X800XL, but I wanted to know how it stacked up against an unlocked X850.

I know there's a chance the Connect won't unlock to an X850, and I also know it has slower memory compared to the Sapphire, but that's a totally different issue. I'm just looking for a general idea of what people think with the 6800GS vs the X850.

Thanks

 

[CKXP]

are you planning to stay with AGP or go PCI-E?

 

[secretanchitman]

welcome to the forums!

anyhoo, the 6800GS (agp in a week or 2) will be the best bang for the buck, so wait until then for the reviews and benchmarks to come in. or you can take a look at the PCI-E review of the 6800GS and compare it to a x850 pro/xt/xtpe or just a plan ol' x800gto. i forget the site name...

IMO, i think the 6800GS is a bit better than a regular x800gto. but im sure once you unlock the gto to x850pro/xt/xtpe speeds, it'll kill the GS.

 

[CKXP]

Originally posted by: secretanchitman
welcome to the forums!

anyhoo, the 6800GS (agp in a week or 2) will be the best bang for the buck, so wait until then for the reviews and benchmarks to come in. or you can take a look at the PCI-E review of the 6800GS and compare it to a x850 pro/xt/xtpe or just a plan ol' x800gto. i forget the site name...

IMO, i think the 6800GS is a bit better than a regular x800gto. but im sure once you unlock the gto to x850pro/xt/xtpe speeds, it'll kill the GS.

true, but looks like to me he's talking AGP (Geforce TI4200), and with a $200 budget, i would say a 6800nu, and try unlocking the pipes, but if he's going PCI-E, then everything you said

 

[johnnqq]

they're pretty much even. gto unlocked (x850xt) wins half life, 6800gs wins doom 3, quake 4, and bf2. i'm buying a 6800gs myself.

 

[Goi]

Is there a review that pits all the various R4x0 cards against one another, perhaps with the NV4x cards too? There are just too many of them(esp the R4x0) to remember, I can't remember which one is 8/12/16 pipelines and which ones are faster than which.

 

[imported_Jester]

Originally posted by: CKXP
are you planning to stay with AGP or go PCI-E?

Good catch. I'm going to grab a new motherboard with PCI-E. If I was sticking with the AGP, then the number of pipes wouldn't matter, right? And are they making either in AGP nowadays?

Originally posted by: johnnqq
they're pretty much even. gto unlocked (x850xt) wins half life, 6800gs wins doom 3, quake 4, and bf2. i'm buying a 6800gs myself.

The only benchmarks I've seen (point me to any others if you know of a site) to compare on Doom 3 and Quake 4 were for a 6800gs vs a vanilla x800gto. They weren't far off course either, to lead me to believe that the unlocked x850 might overtake the 8600gs even on the Nvidia tweaked games (Agreeing with secretanchitman - and thanks, long time reader, first time poster)

 

[CKXP]

Originally posted by: Jester

Originally posted by: CKXP
are you planning to stay with AGP or go PCI-E?

Good catch. I'm going to grab a new motherboard with PCI-E. If I was sticking with the AGP, then the number of pipes wouldn't matter, right? And are they making either in AGP nowadays?

Originally posted by: johnnqq
they're pretty much even. gto unlocked (x850xt) wins half life, 6800gs wins doom 3, quake 4, and bf2. i'm buying a 6800gs myself.

The only benchmarks I've seen (point me to any others if you know of a site) to compare on Doom 3 and Quake 4 were for a 6800gs vs a vanilla x800gto. They weren't far off course either, to lead me to believe that the unlocked x850 might overtake the 8600gs even on the Nvidia tweaked games (Agreeing with secretanchitman - and thanks, long time reader, first time poster)

yes, in most cases more pipes the better, a unlocked 6800nu(16 pipes) AGP will outperform it's PCI-E counterpart (12 pipes), but since you're going to PCI-E and with your budget, then secretanchitman's post is right on the money.

 

[Avalon]

For PCI-E, I'd get a Connect3d X800GTO and unlock it. It would be rare if it didn't unlock for you.

 

[Elfear]

Well, since an X850XT is faster than a 6800Ultra, logic dictates that a 6800GS will trail even further. Seems like an unlocked X800GTO is a very good bang for the buck if you can find one that unlocks.

 

[TigerClaw27]

I'm in nearly the same situation, considering upgrading my Ti4200 AGP. Only difference is I dont have the option of replacing my mobo, cause my system is a Shuttle. Can anyone advise on which way i should go, with the same budget of about $200 bux? Something that is a good OCer and maybe can have some pipes unlocked?

Thanks,
TC

 

[A554SS1N]

Originally posted by: secretanchitman

anyhoo, the 6800GS (agp in a week or 2) will be the best bang for the buck, so wait until then for the reviews and benchmarks to come in.

My mate was after an AGP card around £130 - I can't find many 6800's left, only 6800le's at high prices - will this chip be native AGP or bridged chip? If cheaper 128mb versions around £150 become available he might be tempted to get it.

Oh, and have you got any links to the sources of this news!!

 

[TigerClaw27]

From what i've been reading it will be in the $200 - 250 USD range, with 256Mb (256bit interface). I believe that is 115 - 145 GBP.

 

[A554SS1N]

Originally posted by: TigerClaw27
From what i've been reading it will be in the $200 - 250 USD range, with 256Mb (256bit interface). I believe that is 115 - 145 GBP.

In an ideal world it would be :/ Going on other pricing I've seen, $200 will probably translate to about £155-175 due to ridiculously high prices in Britain not matching exchange rates. (PCI-E 6800GS's are £160+)

 

[Rapishorrid]

http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/sho...714606&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

It's a 16 page debate over the Sapphire GTO2 (unlocked) vs. 6800gs. Sapphire GTO2 is relatively the same as the Connect3d in performance, but even so the Connect3d gets brought up quickly as a contender.

Very interesting topic, as I am in the same contemplation as you!

I guess there really is no definite answer, but I am leaning towards getting the 6800GS and OCing it up to or past 6800U speeds. I think the long term benefits are there with SM3 and better HDR as well as having a longer lasting card. (lately there have been reports of unlocked GTO's and GTO2's that die and experience abnormal atrifacting)

Still up for debate though.

 

[TigerClaw27]

According to the 6800GS PCIe reviews, the core (NV42 110nm) is already clocked at 425Mhz, which is already faster then the 6800U PCIe (NV45 130nm) which is clocked at 400Mhz. Memory on the other hand is suppose to be 1000Mhz, which is a bit slower then the ultras 1100Mhz, so there is definate potential for overclocking. Interestingly the following article claims they received an XFX running at 485Mhz core, and 1100Mhz mem, by default. ( http://theinquirer.net/?article=27777 )

But I think the real question is, what chip the AGP version will be based on? NV40 has native AGP, while NV41,NV42 would need a bridge. My guess is that the smaller die size of the NV42 makes it a no-brainer, and a bridge will probably be used. Unless there is some extra NV40 stock initally?? or perhaps an NV core that hasnt been disclosed?

TC

 

[Munky]

The GS may be clocked at 425, but the ultra still has 16 pipes while the GS only has 12. So the ultra is still faster, but since most GS can overclock to 500 mhz, then it should be about as fast as the ultra at 400 mhz. Either way, an unlocked and OC'd GTO is faster still, since it has 16 pipes and can be OC'd to 520mhz or higher.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: TigerClaw27
According to the 6800GS PCIe reviews, the core (NV42 110nm) is already clocked at 425Mhz, which is already faster then the 6800U PCIe (NV45 130nm) which is clocked at 400Mhz. Memory on the other hand is suppose to be 1000Mhz, which is a bit slower then the ultras 1100Mhz, so there is definate potential for overclocking. Interestingly the following article claims they received an XFX running at 485Mhz core, and 1100Mhz mem, by default. ( http://theinquirer.net/?article=27777 )

But I think the real question is, what chip the AGP version will be based on? NV40 has native AGP, while NV41,NV42 would need a bridge. My guess is that the smaller die size of the NV42 makes it a no-brainer, and a bridge will probably be used. Unless there is some extra NV40 stock initally?? or perhaps an NV core that hasnt been disclosed?

TC

I think you might be forgetting that the GS has only 12 pipelines compared to the Ultra's 16. I just noticed you comparing the 425MHz GS core to the 400MHz Ultra core on the saying it is already faster, because it has much less fillrate due to less pipelines.

 

[Relion]

They are even ... but ... if you can buy a SLI mobo and later throw in an extra GS ... gg

 

[imported_Jester]

Originally posted by: Relion
They are even ... but ... if you can buy a SLI mobo and later throw in an extra GS ... gg

Nah, if I wanted to invest that sort of money, I'd just wait out to buy one 7800GTX then, which if memory serves, still out performs two SLI-ed 6800GS.

The motherboard I'm going to go with will probably be non-SLI. I'm not sure that's going to hang around long, especially if companies like ASUS start throwing the two chips on one PCIe card, and even if it does, I'd rather just get one card juiced up.

 

[Rapishorrid]

Meh..just go for a GS.

I was really hyped about getting a GTO and unlocking and stuff but than I figured in the long run a GS is the way to go.

SM3 can be argued as unimportant, and I think to an extent it is. It's really exagerated (usually) that without it your games will be like crap and stuff. I don't think its quite that drastic in the differences. From what I've seen from 6800GT's vs. X800GTO (unlocked) on games like F.E.A.R. and BF2 (IIRC use SM3?) the difference is not really that big. If any. There is also the factor of HDR. The GS as far as I can see has some better HDR technology running under its hood. But again when this is transfered to ingame, the difference is barely even noticeable.

And suddenly I realize that what I just said completely says that the X800GTO is the way to go. Crap.

and once again I am in debate....

 

[TigerClaw27]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

I think you might be forgetting that the GS has only 12 pipelines compared to the Ultra's 16. I just noticed you comparing the 425MHz GS core to the 400MHz Ultra core on the saying it is already faster, because it has much less fillrate due to less pipelines.

Yup, I meant faster core clock, leaving less OC potential, however the reduced process 110nm (vs NV40 130nm) allows for overclocking even higher. For PCIe, I think an unlocked GTO or GTO2 is a much better choice, if someone is willing to do it. On the other hand, at stock, the GS is better (especially the XFX one running at 485Mhz core / 1100Mhz memory by default).

Now where things become fuzzy is for those still owning an AGP mobo, and not wanting to upgrade their mobo, just to upgrade the video card. I havent found much info about the GTO AGP version, but everything I have looked at suggests it cant be unlocked, and there is no GTO2 AGP version. Am I correct? If the 6800GS AGP version is based on NV40, hopefully their process for producing the chips is already pretty refined, and this may allow us to unlock the pipes, and OC it, basically making it as fast as an Ultra, possibly even OCing to Ultra speeds. And if the 6800GS AGP version will be NV42 with a bridge, then it would still overclock better, and run faster then the an overclocked but not unlocked GTO AGP.

TC

 

[hans030390]

They're both good cards, so i'd consider if you want shader model 3 (6800gs) or not (x850)...I don't know the prices on them, so you'd have to consider that too.

 

[imported_Jester]

Well, I can find the moddable X800GTO for around $175, and the only 6800GS's I see are for over $200. Sounds like they're pretty even give or take a few options, so without any clear reason to pick one over the other, I'll probably opt for the $175 X800GTO since it's cheaper.

Plus, I've never used an ATI card in my time as a computer use (let's see...Matrox Millenium -> Voodoo2 -> GeForce 2 Ultra - Back when CREATIVE made video cards! -> Geforce2 -> Geforce Ti4200), so I thought I oughta give them a shake. I can't really criticize them if I've never used 'em, so might as well give it a go this time around.

 

[johnnqq]

besides performance, the only real advantage the 6800gs has is sm3...