Mod Sponsored Community Poll - Your Input is Requested

[esquared]

Wrong.

I thought it was so important and potentially dicey that I went straight to Anand and asked him directly if the use of "savage" should be allowed BEFORE we acted.

You and others want to believe that the use of the word "savage" to decribe savage acts by African Americans doesn't contribute to stealth racism, but the entire Admin corps AND Anand unanimously think otherwise.

So when you state here, as you did, that only "Certain moderators thought it was 'racist' ", as if perhaps some rump group of mods acted on their own in some high-handed fashion, such an implication just does not even begin to stand up to the FACTS.

I hope this permanently clears up any misconception you may and other poster here have been laboring under.

+2

And, for you that may have missed out what's been said here, let me point out again.

This comes straight from the top.

 

[sandorski]

+2

And, for you that may have missed out what's been said here, let me point out again.

This comes straight from the top.

I can't imagine how anyone could not see that as racist.

 

[JSt0rm]

I think any word could end up banned if the community decided to start using it as a racially derogatory term.

 

[DrPizza]

Like I said, I would be ok with moderation of cut and dry things like replying to someone with just 'fuck you' or purposly not linking s source in the OP.

I really don't think if regulation in P&N starts the it will be limited to just that.

I do not mean the following as a "mod callout" but it might be take as that but I think it is a valid concern. If a mod perceived the following as a "mod callout" please give me a chance to delete it. I am only expressing a concern and using ATOT as an example.

The best example of what I don't want to happen in P&N is what happened in ATOT regarding the word "savage". Certain moderators thought it was 'racist' so they started to ban those who used it. It is a concern because the articles linked to threads using 'savage' as a descriptor contained actions which were by definition 'savage'.

So like I said, P&N is shackled with rules that are subjective to the moderators, then it becomes nothing more than another new aggregator as anyone can find almost anything offensive/racist/sexist/bigoted/ect. if they try hard enough.

This was due to the actions of a handful of posters. Initially, there were a couple posters who had in the past posted some rather hateful speech toward blacks - they had demonstrated incredible bigotry here. "Savages" became a code word for a small handful of posters. Subsequently, a handful of the trolls decided to bait moderators by digging up article after article with "savages" in the title - events that NEVER would have been discussed here, had it not been for that word in the title. Thus, part of the time the word was used, it was used in a very racist context. And another part of the time, it was used as a way to cause trouble here by others.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dank69
I think Spidey and even Anarchist can both determine what is signal and what is noise just fine. I think you can, too. A person's opinion about politics doesn't detract their ability to determine if something is on topic or a direct response to someone else's post that is off topic and whether or not the post has any substance.

Sure it does, when opinion is stated as fact, it needs to be called out as such. This was discussed previously with the price of gasoline.

Negative

It's the worst offenders such as you that called opinion as a fact but the worst offenders like you have been made Mods so it is what it is.

 

[cybrsage]

Negative

It's the worst offenders such as you that called opinion as a fact but the worst offenders like you have been made Mods so it is what it is.

I am not a mod.

 

[cybrsage]

It is against the rules to say the Bataan Death March was a savage and brutal thing? I missed the entire scuffle over the word savage, so I am just curious as to when it can and cannot be used. To be honest, I have never associated savage with blacks, except when a black person does something savage, but a white person doing the same thing would be doing a savage act as well.

Anyway, clarify it for me if the mods can, since I do not want to accidently break a rule Anand set...it is his board and his rules are law.

 

[UberNeuman]

It is against the rules to say the Bataan Death March was a savage and brutal thing? I missed the entire scuffle over the word savage, so I am just curious as to when it can and cannot be used. To be honest, I have never associated savage with blacks, except when a black person does something savage, but a white person doing the same thing would be doing a savage act as well.

Anyway, clarify it for me if the mods can, since I do not want to accidently break a rule Anand set...it is his board and his rules are law.

Your starting to remind me of a PJ fellow....

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Negative

It's the worst offenders such as you that called opinion as a fact but the worst offenders like you have been made Mods so it is what it is.

I am not a mod.

That's the point of this entire thread.

You and the other worst offenders such as Doppel, Jondo etc have been given Mod powers over this forum.

You may not be able to log into the underlying software but the result is the same.

 

[cybrsage]

That's the point of this entire thread.

You and the other worst offenders such as Doppel, Jondo etc have been given Mod powers over this forum.

You may not be able to log into the underlying software but the result is the same.

Actually, you are wrong on the first two sentences. You are partially correct about the third.

 

[JEDIYoda]

That's the point of this entire thread.

You and the other worst offenders such as Doppel, Jondo etc have been given Mod powers over this forum.

You may not be able to log into the underlying software but the result is the same.

Why are you crying??
In your case the pot is calling the kettle black.....rofl..hahahaa

 

[RabidMongoose]

I think it's a great thing about moderators taking action on this whole 'savages' issue. There is a lot of racial hatred here (IMO) and it would be good to have rules here address this issue in a broader sense.

Big props to the moderators for taking action in that instance, I had no idea about that incident.

 

[Doppel]

That's the point of this entire thread.

You and the other worst offenders such as Doppel, Jondo etc have been given Mod powers over this forum.

You may not be able to log into the underlying software but the result is the same.

How many times have you been banned? How many times have you had an infraction? How little respect do people have for you here? You have brought everything down upon yourself with thousands of terrible posts on these forums. For a guy with almost 50,000 posts it's amazing how worthless your posts consistently are--surely that's the one thing you are really great at. Can you point to a single thread in recent memory in which you actually gave anybody any helpful advice on anything, for example? No, you can't. All of your posts are bitch and moan like a little baby and then when somebody like me hands you your ass time and again pointing out how you lie, instead of refuting with fact you resort to victimization, case in point when I gave the brief history of how your sig changed and your brainless retort was simply that I'm a turd.

That is why when you make a thread like the Low IQ one everybody immediately mocks you. You sleep in the bed you made.

Your response to this, inevitably, will be short and haphazard because you are literally incapable of putting together multiple cohesive thoughts in anything bordering proper sentence structure. You truly lack the ability to do it. Instead, you get worked up and lash back with half-concocted ideas like "you have been made mods". So, instead of advice, you bitch and moan. And you're not even good at it; you cannot create long crazy rants. Your posts are more like political Tourette syndrome.

 

[dmcowen674]

How many times have you been banned? How many times have you had an infraction? How little respect do people have for you here? You have brought everything down upon yourself with thousands of terrible posts on these forums. For a guy with almost 50,000 posts it's amazing how worthless your posts consistently are--surely that's the one thing you are really great at. Can you point to a single thread in recent memory in which you actually gave anybody any helpful advice on anything, for example? No, you can't. All of your posts are bitch and moan like a little baby and then when somebody like me hands you your ass time and again pointing out how you lie, instead of refuting with fact you resort to victimization, case in point when I gave the brief history of how your sig changed and your brainless retort was simply that I'm a turd.

That is why when you make a thread like the Low IQ one everybody immediately mocks you. You sleep in the bed you made.

Your response to this, inevitably, will be short and haphazard because you are literally incapable of putting together multiple cohesive thoughts in anything bordering proper sentence structure. You truly lack the ability to do it. Instead, you get worked up and lash back with half-concocted ideas like "you have been made mods". So, instead of advice, you bitch and moan. And you're not even good at it; you cannot create long crazy rants. Your posts are more like political Tourette syndrome.

Quoted your shit once again.

 

[Doppel]

Quoted your shit once again.

I said "Your response to this, inevitably, will be short". It's almost like you are parodying yourself.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Quoted your shit once again.

I said "Your response to this, inevitably, will be short". It's almost like you are parodying yourself.

Every single person's life isn't determined by how hard they fall, and how much failure that they suffer, but instead it is determined by the amount of times that a person is willing to get up after falling, the amount of times that a person is able to turn a loss into a victory.

Life is about how we react to the circumstances that present themselves to us, life is determined by the attitude and mental state that we keep when we are forced to endure.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Savage can be used/interpreted multiple ways.

Here it is up to the poster and also their reader to determine the proper context.
Some posters chose to try to sneak the word savage in as a negative context. Anand felt that it should not be allowed use in the negative context and the Moderators followed through on that directive.

It is at the Moderator discretion as to how the word was being used; both within the post and also based on the poster (track records folks). Reference Sentence #2

The use of savage

• as related to war would seem perfectly acceptable.
• as related to some action/feeling would seem perfectly acceptable.
• as related to an animal species and their actions is perfectly acceptable
• to describe a person and/or group of people starts to become suspect.

Is what is being described is it their

• Actions
• Culture
• Attitudes

When it starts to target a person/groups race (directly/indirectly or linked) in what can be considered a negative context, then the line is being drawn here at AT. The negative context may be subjective; which goes back to the first two sentences.

Way back when one was a child, you mother told you to not touch the stove, it was hot. Most listened, some did not. Of those that did not, most did not repeat the experiment.

The same is here at AT w/ respect to certain words. If you do not believe that action will be taken; try it. But do not complain if you are hurt as a result. You will get no sympathy, potentially be ridiculed and also other issues later on may be given a shorter straw because of the attitude displayed toward AT.

Respect the forums, Moderators & community and in return you will get the same.
The same goes for disrespect.

You reap what you sow.


EK
ex-Admin

 

[waggy]

I think it's a great thing about moderators taking action on this whole 'savages' issue. There is a lot of racial hatred here (IMO) and it would be good to have rules here address this issue in a broader sense.

Big props to the moderators for taking action in that instance, I had no idea about that incident.

i agree. but you won't see racist slurs and remarks off the board some are allowed just need to know what race it is ok to do.

but then its not just the board but TV, Movies etc. As a culture and society I don't see it going away when people ok one race to be the but of jokes yet bitch about others.

 

[Patranus]

This was due to the actions of a handful of posters. Initially, there were a couple posters who had in the past posted some rather hateful speech toward blacks - they had demonstrated incredible bigotry here. "Savages" became a code word for a small handful of posters. Subsequently, a handful of the trolls decided to bait moderators by digging up article after article with "savages" in the title - events that NEVER would have been discussed here, had it not been for that word in the title. Thus, part of the time the word was used, it was used in a very racist context. And another part of the time, it was used as a way to cause trouble here by others.

I understand that and I don't mean to keep going back to that specifically but I think it is a good example of possible abuse because of ones personal opinions especially when by definition the word applies to some actions be it by black, white, ect. people.

My issue is that the same attitude can be applied to almost any situation especially in politics and by enforcing rules which are not concrete then you open the door to abuse.

Such issues that can be "offensive" and "bait users and moderates" are things like gay marriage, abortion, gay adoption, or religion. To some, having a position related to these issues is considered 'bigoted"or "offensive". Hell, one user made a thread that inferred the subject of that thread was a bitch because it pertained to a woman.

Politics are very personal and vary for individual to individual and my only point is that it is a slippery slope for certain people to make inferences as to people intentions.

 

[Perknose]

I understand that and I don't mean to keep going back to that specifically but I think it is a good example of possible abuse.

And I strongly disagree. There is a long history, initially enshrined in our constitution, and subsequently by our own Supreme Court in Plessy v Ferguson, then continued into the lifetime of many here by the South's official "Jim Crow" segregation laws, and still thriving to this day amongst a subset of people in this country, of using words to enforce and deny the basic humanity and equality of black people by referring to them as jungle bunnies, spearchuckers, jigaboos, mud people, grown black men addressed by whites only as BOY, and savages.

Think not? Spend just one minute on Stormfront:

...my only point is that it is a slippery slope for certain people to make inferences as to people intentions.

There you go again with that sly "certain people" reference.

What you wish to call a "slippery slope" and "a good example of possible abuse" is the firm ground on which Anand lal Shimpi and every single AnandTech Admin stands, united.

As this poster simply says:

I can't imagine how anyone could not see that as racist.

 

[JEDIYoda]

And I strongly disagree. There is a long history, initially enshrined in our constitution, and subsequently by our own Supreme Court in Plessy v Ferguson, then continued into the lifetime of many here by the South's official "Jim Crow" segregation laws, and still thriving to this day amongst a subset of people in this country, of using words to enforce and deny the basic humanity and equality of black people by referring to them as jungle bunnies, spearchuckers, jigaboos, mud people, grown black men addressed by whites only as BOY, and savages.

Think not? Spend just one minute on Stormfront:

There you go again with that sly "certain people" reference.

What you wish to call a "slippery slope" and "a good example of possible abuse" is the firm ground on which Anand lal Shimpi and every single AnandTech Admin stands, united.

As this poster simply says:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Patranus]

And I strongly disagree. There is a long history, initially enshrined in our constitution, and subsequently by our own Supreme Court in Plessy v Ferguson, then continued into the lifetime of many here by the South's official "Jim Crow" segregation laws, and still thriving to this day amongst a subset of people in this country, of using words to enforce and deny the basic humanity and equality of black people by referring to them as jungle bunnies, spearchuckers, jigaboos, mud people, grown black men addressed by whites only as BOY, and savages.

Think not? Spend just one minute on Stormfront:

There you go again with that sly "certain people" reference.

What you wish to call a "slippery slope" and "a good example of possible abuse" is the firm ground on which Anand lal Shimpi and every single AnandTech Admin stands, united.

As this poster simply says:

So then, I can assume that if/when moderation comes to P&N negative historical inferences will be treated equitably?

Like the thread title inferring Jan Brewer is a 'bitch' because she is a woman?
Or all of the bigoted anti religious talk?

That is all I am saying. Equal enforcement. I have no problem with that.

If you are going to ban someone for posting an image of Obama as a monkey, you have to do the same for those who might post an image of BOOOSH as a monkey.

The problem is that because politics is such a subjective issue, there is no way to not take personal believes out of the equation when determining the legitimacy of a position, argument, or word.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The problem is that because politics is such a subjective issue, there is no way to not take personal believes out of the equation when determining the legitimacy of a position, argument, or word.

I know and have read what you stated and I agree with your premise.
But I am not so sure that you read the whole history of the word -- SAVAGE on these forums. Several mods came and posted in this thread and one even told of going to Anand about the use of that word.

IMO the mods should have discretion just like they had discretion concerning the word "SAVAGE" until it got totally out of line and was actually being used to rally those who would use that word in a derogatory way all the time.
Sure it might have been only a handful of people, but as you know from posting in P&N a handful of people is all it takes....

Now your concern about equal enforcement is sort of not the proper use of words..IMO!

I am sure that if the word "Bitch" became a rallying cry against women on these forums and if people started posting posts all the time using that word, then I am sure they mods would have a huddle maybe even get Anands opinion and go from their.

But equalk enforcement does not IMO mean every little thing that could be taken wrong by somebody!

The word "Savage" became and real problem and was dealt with accordingly!

I don`t see other words as of yet becoming real problems.

But I have issues with people who for sake of argument and getting the biggest bang for their argument lump other groups with the Nazi`s when we both know that nothing hardly compares with the atrocities the Nazi`s perpetrated on mankind......from science or medical experiments to burning people alive and other such barbarism!

 

[Patranus]

But I have issues with people who for sake of argument and getting the biggest bang for their argument lump other groups with the Nazi`s when we both know that nothing hardly compares with the atrocities the Nazi`s perpetrated on mankind......from science or medical experiments to burning people alive and other such barbarism!

So then the use of worlds like 'bigot' to describe someone who is conservative would fall within that frame, correct?

 

[JEDIYoda]

So then the use of worlds like 'bigot' to describe someone who is conservative would fall within that frame, correct?

Youre not addressing the issue of the word, SAVAGE"......all the reasons why it became a problem mean nothing to you?? The mods even explained what they went through before they acted on the word "SAVAGE".

If the same thing set of circumstances were to happen concerning the word BIGOT...sure....

But as it is we are all bigots in some way ---

For instance I am a BIGOT when it comes to mass murderers......I am a Bigot when it comes to Pedophiles......I am a Bigot when it comes to wife beaters......

see my point.......we all have a definition of Bigot -- yet it is possible for a few people or a small amount of people to ruin it for the whole......

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few -- Spock!