Mobile chips 2017: Qualcomm, Mediatek, Exynos and More

[Lodix]

A57 on 14LPE on the 7420 was both faster and more efficient than Kryo on 14LPP.

can you post the perf/power graphs comparing Kryo with the other cores ?

 

[Arachnotronic]

I wonder if the MT score doesn't point to either of these two improvements: it's low for 4 big cores.

I think Apple will implement SMT. Although I suspect Apple's OOE is robust, allowing it to make good use of that wide core, there's probably some efficient performance gains to be had by implementing SMT. The trade off is validation complexity and possibly a small regression in ST performance, but it's a much more efficient way to get more threaded perf than laying down two additional "big" cores (though in 10nm they won't be that "big").

 

[Andrei.]

can you post the perf/power graphs comparing Kryo with the other cores ?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Wow, Kryo really does suck.

 

[Lodix]

Thanks, I hope you can keep giving us this graphs/info in your new job <3

 

[Andrei.]

Thanks, I hope you can keep giving us this graphs/info in your new job <3

This was data still from AT, I can still talk about stuff but don't think I'll post graphs like that.

 

[dark zero]

Wow, Kryo really does suck.

Compared to the Qualcomm A57 looks decent.

Also is missing 28 nm A72 (Qualcomm) and 20 nm A72 (Mediatek). Both might put A57 on shame. And 20nm Mediatek would put Qualcomm Kryo on shame too.

BTW, Kryo 280 is different than stock A73... That's because the stock one will come on the Snapdragon 660.

 

[krumme]

Compared to the Qualcomm A57 looks decent.

Also is missing 28 nm A72 (Qualcomm) and 20 nm A72 (Mediatek). Both might put A57 on shame. And 20nm Mediatek would put Qualcomm Kryo on shame too.

BTW, Kryo 280 is different than stock A73... That's because the stock one will come on the Snapdragon 660.

You were 100% wrong and were corrected. Simple as that.

 

[dark zero]

You were 100% wrong and were corrected. Simple as that.

Still thinking like that? We will get the stock A73 and we will compare against the Kryo 280 of is the same or not. If there are differences... What you will say about that?

 

[Andrei.]

Still thinking like that? We will get the stock A73 and we will compare against the Kryo 280 of is the same or not. If there are differences... What you will say about that?

Are you hard of comprehension? We already have the comparison. There is no difference.

I must say I underestimated ARM's new licensing model. Clearly there is visible benefit as people are blindly falling for it.

 

[Despoiler]

Apple isn't faster because they are solely chip wizards. They have some nice ARM customization to be sure. Especially in the power consumption area. Most of their gains are because they have tight integration with the OS. Android has always been at a speed disadvantage because they've used virtual machines and runtime environments in order to be compatible with the widest array of hardware possible. That is the fundamental trade off between the two.

 

[dark zero]

Apple isn't faster because they are solely chip wizards. They have some nice ARM customization to be sure. Especially in the power consumption area. Most of their gains are because they have tight integration with the OS. Android has always been at a speed disadvantage because they've used virtual machines and runtime environments in order to be compatible with the widest array of hardware possible. That is the fundamental trade off between the two.

The problem is that the way Android goes is that it cause a lot of performance issues that eventually will backfire them hard.. even more if Andromeda goes on that path it will end as Windows RT. The only way Android can survive is to start to implement very high standards to avoid more fragmentation.

And Apple is not only integrating well with the OS, but also the customizations are very good, FAR better than stock ARM for sure. And that is because they eventually wants to use that horsepower to replace the x86 chips they use on the current products. On a slow but steady change.
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BTW....

Seems that Qualcomm is making it's move on may since they will release the Snapdragon 660 and some other products...

http://m.gsmarena.com/qualcomm_sends_out_invites_for_the_snapdragon_660_unveiling-amp-24850.php

BTW.... If ARM A73 and Kryo 280 Performance are equal, the Kirin 960 could easily emulate Windows since it uses the ARM A73.

 

[dark zero]

And here is it...
The Snapdragon 660 and the 630 are out.

http://m.gsmarena.com/qualcomm_announces_snapdragon_660_and_snapdragon_630_socs-news-24923.php

And here are the specs on their CPU and GPU...

Snapdragon 660
- 4X Kryo 260 at 2.2 Ghz and 4X Kryo 260 at 1.8 Ghz
- GPU Adreno 512
- Process Manufacturing: 14 nm

Snapdragon 660
- 4X ARM A53 at 2.3 Ghz and 4X ARM A53 at 1.8 Ghz
- GPU Adreno 508
- Process Manufacturing: 14 nm

In few words
SD 660: Seems decent.. And the GPU has SD 805 levels... Expecting how performs it.

SD 630: Dissapointing... From a full 8X ARM A53 core at 2.2 Ghz now it goes into a regression to 2 clusters of 2.3 and 1.8 only to improve the GPU... In few words is an Helio P25 with better energy efficiency.

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And that is because Mediatek Helio P30/35 are going to copy the Helio X20 CPU design (Tri Cluster) with a better GPU (Mali G71)

Also... The mid tier Mediatek is supposed to go to Mali G51 as their GPU, possibly a tricore one. And CPU wise they might use the ARM A35 as the power saving cores. Or just use the Helio X10 design at 16 nm with better GPU.

In few words they released the gamebreaking chip along a mediocre one.

 

[Thala]

BTW.... If ARM A73 and Kryo 280 Performance are equal, the Kirin 960 could easily emulate Windows since it uses the ARM A73.

First Kryo 280 is for all intents and purposes a Cortex A73 supported by the new licensing model allowing Qualcomm to slap its own label on the cores. Qualcomm has moved its core engineering resources away from mobile into servers and putting their bets on standard ARM cores.
Second there is no Windows emulation at all, Windows on ARM is supported by dynamic translation x86->AArch64 in SW at the application layer. All Windows OS including all Win32 libraries are natively compiled for AArch64.

 

[dark zero]

First Kryo 280 is for all intents and purposes a Cortex A73 supported by the new licensing model allowing Qualcomm to slap its own label on the cores. Qualcomm has moved its core engineering resources away from mobile into servers and putting their bets on standard ARM cores.
Second there is no Windows emulation at all, Windows on ARM is supported by dynamic translation x86->AArch64 in SW at the application layer. All Windows OS including all Win32 libraries are natively compiled for AArch64.

So... Is possible to emulate, I mean run Windows on ARM with any ARM chip only if it is powerful enough?

 

[Nothingness]

So... Is possible to emulate, I mean run Windows on ARM with any ARM chip only if it is powerful enough?

Most likely yes.

 

[dark zero]

Most likely yes.

Let's wait... maybe is compatible with Power VR GPU and Adreno one, but maybe not on Mali...
or maybe yes?


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Anyways, time to add some news, and then some speculation... this time is regarding Mediatek.

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Ok, remember than Qualcomm released the Snapdragon 660 and 630?
Mediatek was planning to deliver the Helio P35 after ditching the Helio P30 since the P35 was ssupposed to be made at 10nm and the P30 at 16nm. Well, now there are rumors that the 10 nm process from TSMC is having a LOT of problems to produce a good ammount of chips, forcing them to release the following chip: The Helio P23.

Features on it

CPU:
- 8x Cortex-A53 @ ?.? Ghz
GPU: Power VR GT7400 Plus ??? Mhz
- Supports LPPDR4X RAM at 1600 Mhz
- Process Manufacturing: 16 nm TSMC

Possible release date: Q4 2017

It will support Cat. 7 LTE, up to 2K displays, and dual cameras.

Source: https://www.gizmochina.com/2017/05/11/analyst-reveals-details-mediateks-helio-p23/

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WARNING: The next text is speculation from me about the plans of Mediatek on the high tier chips for this year, so you can ignore it if you want.
---------------------------

Spoiler

Ok, after seeing that 10nm is a troublesome process and most of the phone makers wants phones with better processors, seems that the TSMC 16 nm AND Samsung 14 nm process will be still used and Mediatek and Qualcomm respectively are going to prepare new products for the mid range.

- Qualcomm now released the Snapdragon 660 and 630.

- Mediatek was supposed to have the Helio P35 ready for the 2H 2017 since the P30 was ditched, but they got the bad news that the 10 nm process was having problems in order to produce a decent ammount of chips.

Also, we see that the Helio P23 will come until the Q4 2017 and is NOT competition against the 660.

So, here is my speculation about the lineup of this year from Mediatek:

- Helio P23 will compete against the Snapdragon 630 due the similar ammount of cores used, only that they have the edge on the GPU that if is the GT 7400 Plus, it will be a massive overkill for Qualcomm.

However if the scenarios turns to be that they will use the Power VR GT 7200 Plus (similar to Spreadtrum) is very possible to compete with lower cost but maybe losing against the SD 630. In few words an Helio X10 with new GPU and at 16nm process.

So, time to put my coins on the possible CPU and GPU specs:

CPU:
- 4x Cortex-A53 @ 2.6 Ghz
- 4x Cortex-A53 @ 1.7 Ghz
GPU: Power VR GT7400 Plus @ 500 Mhz (scenario 1)
Power VR GT7200 Plus @ 900 Mhz (scenario 2)

The problem of the ARM A53 is that they already reached to their limits... and there is not any mid step between ARM A53 and A73... A57 was badly made that is NOT an option... Maybe time for a revision of the A57 to bring something totally fixed from the ground to do the succesor of the A53?

- Helio P30 will be revived from the trash bin and will have this speculated specs (based on Helio P35, except with the change of the GPU if this is confirmed) to compete against the Snapdragon 660:

CPU:
- 2x Cortex-A73 @2.0GHz
- 4x Cortex-A53 @1.8GHz
- 4x Cortex-A35 @1.4GHz

GPU: PowerVR 7XTP-MT4 @600MHz (aka GT 7400 Plus)

If the Helio P30 appears, is possible to be the chip used on the next year Sony Xperia XA and XA Ultra, some Asus Zenfones and some other brands (and no HTC, you seem to be still jerking with Snapdragons 400 and Helio P10, you deserve to go bankrupt and go to the depts of hell)

- Helio P35 will be postponed for next year (Maybe Q1) due 10 nm production problems.
The specs are the same like the image, except GPU since seems that Power VR GT 7400 Plus will come to Helio P series too, maybe it will have the GPU clocked @ 650 Mhz in order to NOT to be too near the Helio X35:

- Helio X35 will be postponed to Q3, but it will be still on track with the same features as officially are on their page.

And well, that's all the news for now. See ya.

 

[dark zero]

And there is a new from Samsung... an interesting one.
--------------------
Samsung is about to launch the Exynos 7872 SoC.

Yeah, the number doesn't seem weird... but the weird part comes when it will come with the following specs:

CPU:
- 2x Cortex-A73 @ ?.? Ghz
- 4x Cortex-A53 @ ?.? Ghz
GPU: Mali T830 - MP2 @ ??? Mhz
- Process Manufacturing: 14 nm Samsung

Source: http://www.gizchina.com/2017/05/14/samsung-plans-launch-exynos-7872-soc-full-network-support-china/

Indeed, so my prayings were heard by Samsung people and seems that next year we might finally see these SoCs on their 2018 A series !!!

So Snapdragon 660 won't have one but 2 rivals: Mediatek Helio P30/35 and these new Exynos.
And well, time to see if Huawei and Xiaomi decides to release new chips to rival them.

 

[Lodix]

The Snapdragon 660 is alredy being shipped to customers and is significantly better than this chip, there is no competition. It was a shame releasing the 2017 A series with the Exynos 7880.

 

[dark zero]

The Snapdragon 660 is alredy being shipped to customers and is significantly better than this chip, there is no competition. It was a shame releasing the 2017 A series with the Exynos 7880.

This might turn into a dissaster if Samsung does not do nothing to avoid it.. heck, even Mediatek seems to release a Power VR based Helio P30... and now the information is confusing regarding to that.

https://www.androidheadlines.com/20...lio-p30-in-the-works-will-fuel-meizu-mx7.html

From going to a Decacore like, ended to be a 2 clusters of ARM A73 and ARM A53 (octo Core) without knowing which GPU uses....

The problem is that Helio P23 which is an Octo Core ARM A53 is already announced with Power VR GPU... so going to Mali is not an option.

But... that doesn't mean that SD 660 could be an even better option compared to SD 835 unless they nerfed hard the GPU?

 

[dark zero]

And here goes nothing...

Snapdragon 660 Geekbench results were leaked.
https://www.gizmochina.com/2017/05/18/snapdragon-660-appears-geekbench-database-stellar

Comparing to a Snapdragon 820
Single Core: 1739
Multi Core: 4155

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/2731443

And then comparing to the Xiaomi Redmi Note 3 Pro
Single Core: 1425
Multi Core: 2660

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/2731462

Something is off... Why I see this chip as a rebranded ARM A72 instead of an ARM A73???

 

[Lodix]

Final scores can improve. The CPU ID is the same as the SD835 which uses Cortex 73 cores. Aslo different implementations can target different approaches. They might have focused on reducing size at the cost of performance ( less cache etc ) for the SD660. It makes no sense for anyone to use A72 over A73 because the latter is smaller/cheaper and has better characteristics.

 

[dark zero]

Final scores can improve. The CPU ID is the same as the SD835 which uses Cortex 73 cores. Aslo different implementations can target different approaches. They might have focused on reducing size at the cost of performance ( less cache etc ) for the SD660. It makes no sense for anyone to use A72 over A73 because the latter is smaller/cheaper and has better characteristics.

But... A72 is more scalable than A73... You can even use A72 on 28 nm design while A73 only from 16nm onwards.

 

[Lodix]

But... A72 is more scalable than A73... You can even use A72 on 28 nm design while A73 only from 16nm onwards.

That's not true,you can use any architecture you want at any given process node.

 

[dark zero]

That's not true,you can use any architecture you want at any given process node.

But the effectiveness will go according to the uarch?

I mean.. How escalable is the performance advantage of A73 to A72 on 16 nm compared to 28nm???