Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan finally release the "details" to their Tax plan

[Apple Of Sodom]

Yeah I've paid 6 figures in taxes. I still put 6 figures in the bank. You realize there's more to America than giving your money to welfare moms. How about you stop worrying about that $30 T-mobile plan from Walmart and start worrying about the bigger issues?

Where you and I might agree would be that taxes wouldn't sound so bad if they were actually being spent wisely and not being wasted. Right now when I pay taxes in the states I don't feel like they go anywhere but to pay for a couple wars and horrible government administrators. I don't see the benefit anywhere unlike where I live now. Where we might disagree though is how to spend it wisely but I'd really hope that you'd agree on a few things such as Education and Healthcare, fundamental needs in life, as a proper use of tax dollars.

I am proud to pay taxes and give. And you are correct...it isn't so much the amount but how it is wasted. It is like giving a kid college money and then having him waste it all on beer and partying at the dorms instead of learning.

This is where I have issues:

1) Quit taxing me (us) when Exxon Mobile made 19 BILLION dollars and received a $150 MILLION refund with $0 paid in taxes. Close loopholes like this.

2) Quit increasing entitlement programs. We need to put our foot down somewhere. Start anywhere. Eliminating subsidies for non-essential things, like cell phones, is small peanuts but a good start.

3) Don't bail out businesses. I hate the idea of privatizing profits and subsidizing losses.

4) Spend money where it matters, on education and necessities... but we need to define what all of that means. A cell phone and doritos are not necessities.

5) Everyone should have skin in the game. The lowest tax rate someone should be allowed to pay should be $100 (or another arbitrarily low number.) No free ride. No tax return when you've paid nothing in.

 

[randomrogue]

I am proud to pay taxes and give. And you are correct...it isn't so much the amount but how it is wasted. It is like giving a kid college money and then having him waste it all on beer and partying at the dorms instead of learning.

This is where I have issues:

1) Quit taxing me (us) when Exxon Mobile made 19 BILLION dollars and received a $150 MILLION refund with $0 paid in taxes. Close loopholes like this.

2) Quit increasing entitlement programs. We need to put our foot down somewhere. Start anywhere. Eliminating subsidies for non-essential things, like cell phones, is small peanuts but a good start.

3) Don't bail out businesses. I hate the idea of privatizing profits and subsidizing losses.

4) Spend money where it matters, on education and necessities... but we need to define what all of that means. A cell phone and doritos are not necessities.

5) Everyone should have skin in the game. The lowest tax rate someone should be allowed to pay should be $100 (or another arbitrarily low number.) No free ride. No tax return when you've paid nothing in.

I agree with all of the above. It actually made voting this election quite difficult since, from my point of view, some of those are R and some of those are D entitlements and programs. Exxon? I blame R. Welfare? I blame D. I voted for neither. A first for me.

I gotta say though that living in a place where your tax dollars are utilized will really open your eyes. Worse yet CA taxes are super high so the tax % difference is not that large yet I get tons for my money. America is doing it really wrong.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

I think that Romney plans on fixing these type of loopholes (Exxon et al not paying taxes.) Maybe it will work, maybe it won't...if he tries and fails then he can just increase taxes, which is what Obama's strategy is to begin with. Romney is at least trying something different.

 

[Juddog]

I think that Romney plans on fixing these type of loopholes (Exxon et al not paying taxes.) Maybe it will work, maybe it won't...if he tries and fails then he can just increase taxes, which is what Obama's strategy is to begin with. Romney is at least trying something different.

He says he will close the loopholes but realistically speaking - how will that be possible?

With the amount of pressure from lobbyists on both sides of the fence, the chances for all loopholes being closed are next to a snowball's chance in hell. It's just an empty promise; no president has ever held that kind of power; America isn't a dictatorship.

 

[randomrogue]

I don't believe anything Romney says so I couldn't vote for him. He'll say anything to anyone and then say the opposite two weeks later.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

He says he will close the loopholes but realistically speaking - how will that be possible?

With the amount of pressure from lobbyists on both sides of the fence, the chances for all loopholes being closed are next to a snowball's chance in hell. It's just an empty promise; no president has ever held that kind of power; America isn't a dictatorship.

I think it's about as realistic as Obama saying he's ending pork barrel.

 

[Juddog]

I think it's about as realistic as Obama saying he's ending pork barrel.

True - I agree 100%. No president has that kind of power, to do something on that scale you'd have to be a dictator or have a super majority in congress and the will within your own party to do it - and neither party would go along with it. Pork barrel spending is the bread and butter of congress to show their constituents that they are doing something for the local crowd to keep them getting elected. Very few dems or repubs would back the president on stopping pork barrel spending, and that would be easier to do than to close all of the tax loopholes.

In the same note, tax loopholes are how politicians gain favor of the corporations that fund them; on the assumption that if Mitt Romney won the election, there just simply isn't the political will on either side for something like this to happen. There are too many loopholes in the system and closing them all at once would muck up decades of tax codes. It's a simplistic and unrealistic solution that would never work in the real world.

 

[jackstar7]

You want to raise my taxes because I have more money. I say we raise taxes...across the board. Raise EVERY tax rate by 5%.

It is factored in as a cost. But it is a cost I cannot control which is very bad. On top of that I see no return on this cost. When costs for something go up I do something about it. I change suppliers, change prices, or negotiate. There is none of that with this cost. Like paying rent, if it gets to high, I can go elsewhere.

You see no return?

Wow.



Edit: Sorry. To elaborate: I believe (and could be wrong) that you're simply looking at things from too micro a scale. And really, the amount of money you've paid in taxes that went to cell phones is probably, in your lifetime, maybe about $0.18. I'd normally say about $0.03, but you seem to be doing well. How about if I covered your share of that and you covered my share of some absurd spending that I completely disagree with?

Because we're a collective and the money goes to things across the spectrum of political belief to try and serve ALL the people. It's kinda the only way our system works.

 

[DrPizza]

The issue isn't the specific number of lies each told in the debate.

The issue is that Romney fundamentally changed major aspects of his previous platform.

He had to. In order to win the Republican nomination, he had to appeal to the far right in his party. In order to win the Presidential election, he has to forget about pandering to them, and instead, pander more to the middle. I think I and several others said this many months ago - it's the only way he could possibly get elected. And, turns out, that to get elected, he has to lie to someone - he either lied to the religious right in his own party, else he's lying to everyone more toward the center. Since he's flip flopped on virtually every issue, it's nearly impossible to know what he's being truthful about any more.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Well, I think he pulled a fast one on Obama. Everyone was waiting for his "grand Etch-a-Sketch" moment and it didn't seem to be happening. Then he pulled it right in the middle of the debate.

Obama should have been ready for it. He wasn't -- and he paid the price.

Of course, all of this says nothing good at all about the ability of the American people to be hoodwinked by the political equivalent of a used car salesman. In a way, if Romney wins, they deserve what they're going to get.

 

[Juddog]

Well, I think he pulled a fast one on Obama. Everyone was waiting for his "grand Etch-a-Sketch" moment and it didn't seem to be happening. Then he pulled it right in the middle of the debate.

Obama should have been ready for it. He wasn't -- and he paid the price.

Of course, all of this says nothing good at all about the ability of the American people to be hoodwinked by the political equivalent of a used car salesman. In a way, if Romney wins, they deserve what they're going to get.

I got this impression from the debate as well. Obama debated against Mitt's known documents, and Mitt was all like "my plan covers that" and "my plan won't do that", but had no documentation of this new plan. Obama was dumbfounded and didn't know how to react, so appeared weak. Hopefully in tonight's debate Obama will be ready to defend against the latest shaking of the etch-a-sketch.

 

[Jaskalas]

He had to. In order to win the Republican nomination, he had to appeal to the far right in his party. In order to win the Presidential election, he has to forget about pandering to them, and instead, pander more to the middle. I think I and several others said this many months ago - it's the only way he could possibly get elected. And, turns out, that to get elected, he has to lie to someone - he either lied to the religious right in his own party, else he's lying to everyone more toward the center. Since he's flip flopped on virtually every issue, it's nearly impossible to know what he's being truthful about any more.

He was the Governor of the Democrat bastion of Massachusetts. Look to his record there for who he really is and what he's likely to do in office.

 

[Doppel]

HAHAHA i loved this

 

[dank69]

I think that Romney plans on fixing these type of loopholes (Exxon et al not paying taxes.) ...

Holy fuck you are retarded if you believe that.

 

[emperus]

He was the Governor of the Democrat bastion of Massachusetts. Look to his record there for who he really is and what he's likely to do in office.

FYI, Romney only ran for one term. He isn't contesting MA and is down by at least 20 points in this state while Scott Brown is down maybe 4 points and even in some polls. That will tell you what type of job he did as Governor in MA. You won't meet too many people here, R or D who liked him.