Missouri Police Officer guns down unarmed 18 year old

[The Merg]

Considering the above facts, it's quite easy to see how people would be afraid of or apprehensive of the police in Ferguson. They hand out more tickets than candy on Halloween and if your just getting by, like much of the country, a single BS ticket can turn into a HUGE ordeal and cost a metric fuckton of money.



IMO the absolute worst practice they do is calling your name 30 minutes before your official "notice to appear" time and if your aren't there 30 minutes early but ARE ON TIME you still have to pay the failure to appear AND "warrant" fee. Who the fuck charges you for issuing a warrant for your arrest and then charges you while they have you locked up for a friggen traffic ticket, most likely causing you to lose your job and the revenue source needed to pay the bullshit off???



They have created a true debtors prison in Ferguson and I argue that it is completely unconstitutional.

No argument there.

- Merg

 

[ivwshane]

How's this nonsense. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and increased the numbers. Are you saying those are still not high enough? So out of 40,000,000 police contacts, how many do you think the police use inappropriate force?

- Merg

I missed that, I apologize. However, we have no idea what the real numbers are and that was my point.

 

[Darwin333]

except hot tar on your skin has an immediate physical reaction and you are reacting to pain.

the same cannot be said for someone pulling (or trying to pull) a gun.

The explanation almost always given for fight or flight is a caveman sleeping and is woken by a sabertooth or mountain lion, the brain (despite no physical pain yet) perceives the danger and reacts before the logical part of your brain can get a full comprehension of the situation.

Like another poster mentioned, watch an episode of America's funniest home videos for people reacting without any logical thought or physical pain when they are scared.

 

[Darwin333]

So you're saying that if the police use force that they are not documenting it?

I would say that is not true. The easiest thing that will get a cop in trouble is truthfulness. If a cop is caught lying to IA or in a report and even on the stand, in today's culture (due to the publicity that bad cops get, which is good by the way) their career is done. Being put on the Brady List means no more promotions or transfers to specialty units and in many cases means termination. I've even seen cops that were found in violation over 20 years ago of issues that are now viewed today as being a truthfulness issue so they have been recently told they will never be promoted again.

The reason I bring that up is because if a cop uses force and then does not document it, they create a truthfulness issue for themselves if someone then makes a complaint. The way to protect themselves is to document the force (no matter how big or small - in fact even pulling out a Taser and threatening to use it is considered use of force in many places). So just an officer detailing that they used an arm-bar maneuver to put someone on the ground to effect an arrest would be documented as use of force.

As for the number of deadly shootings, the Bureau of Justice Statistics has stated that there are about 400 deaths a year by law enforcement. So in 99.999% of encounters with the police, the person is not killed.

- Merg

Then why is police lying on the stand so widespread that there is even a name for it, "testilying".

 

[The Merg]

Then why is police lying on the stand so widespread that there is even a name for it, "testilying".

Because of Alan Dershowitz. Seriously. He truly made it part of the common language. (And I like him. He is a terrific speaker on all things regarding civil rights issues.)

- Merg

 

[Darwin333]

Back in my day, you received *credits* for each day you were in jail. So as an example, if your fine was $150, and you sat in jail for 3 days, when you went to court the judge would say "time served, your free to go". I have met many who were allowed to sit in jail ONLY on weekends, to work their fine off. You heard correct, if their fine was ten days in jail, they could report Friday night, and be released Sunday night for 5 weekends. This allowed them to keep their jobs.
Alas, that was a different era.

They allow that in my parish too. I have a guy working for me that is currently a "weekend warrior" in the parish jail. I'm not sure what he's in for, just that he can't work weekends.

But to pick up a person because of an unpaid traffic ticket they couldn't afford to pay, make them sit in jail for weeks waiting for court because they can't afford bail and then charge them $60 a day that they sat in jail (instead of as you note applying "time served" to their fine) is simply absurd. Those poor bastards will never get out of debt to people that can and DO throw your ass in jail if you can't pay up. It's a fucking racket that I personally consider a debtors prison which is flat out unconstitutional.

But hey, the police have nice shiny AR-15's and stuff that they point at peaceful protesters, without charges being filed to my knowledge (shove the he lost his job crap straight up your ass sideways, let me point an AR-15 at a cop and just lose my job and we can talk), so at least we know the money is going to good use. /sarcasm

 

[Darwin333]

Haha, I had an arrest warrant issued for failure to show up to court for a inspection sticker being out of date. I had just noticed the sticker on my wife's car eing out date and was pulled over in the parking lot of econolube to get it updated. Cop still was an asshat and gave me a ticket. Cop said though if I had it completed here and showed the clerk I could get the ticket dismissed. So I got the sticker right there, took the receipt the next day to the courthouse and showed the clerk the receipt. She would dismiss the ticket with a $180 court fee. Yes a $180 court fee. Which was what I thought insane as hell. So I said screw that, I'll ask the judge. Maybe he'll knock it off, or maybe he won't. Even if he said no, it was not going to be worse.

So when the clerk hands me back the ticket/summons, she writes on the front of the ticket in big letters, July 19th. She says to me not to miss it that date.

Well that really fucked me up because the court date was July 9th and not the 19th. I think the clerk did that on purpose, and I got a warrant created for my arrest for failure to appear. I showed up on the 19th and found out how I got screwed. I ended up having to pay another $650 for the warrant to get dismissed. All over a 30 day expired safety inspection sticker for a vehicle that has less than 30K miles on it. Yah it's bullshit for what places can impose for penalties.

The fines are getting completely absurd. The $180 alone for getting the ticket dismissed could easily be more than a months worth of someones disposable income. Then once they really have you over a barrel for missing your court date (a warrant issued for your arrest) they really put the screws to you. Could someone explain to me how it costs the court $650 to remove an arrest warrant from the system?

Last time I had to go to court for a ticket my first two court dates the judge didn't show up, first time was a "family emergency" and the second time was "illness". I wasted hours of my day both days, luckily I have a flexible work schedule so I didn't miss an entire days work but most of the people working for me would have missed the entire day, and that's perfectly fine. If I am 10 minutes late I get an arrest warrant issued and have to pay upwards of $1K more.

Yet we wonder why the US has 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds prisoners... Its not that we are a bunch of criminal bastards in the US relative to the rest of the world, its the justice system squeezes the people its sworn to protect for more and more money. No better way of getting people to pay up for bullshit than threatening to (or actually) throwing them in jail. One of these days the people will have had enough of this kind of shit and that day won't be a pretty or good day.

 

[werepossum]

Considering the above facts, it's quite easy to see how people would be afraid of or apprehensive of the police in Ferguson. They hand out more tickets than candy on Halloween and if your just getting by, like much of the country, a single BS ticket can turn into a HUGE ordeal and cost a metric fuckton of money.

IMO the absolute worst practice they do is calling your name 30 minutes before your official "notice to appear" time and if your aren't there 30 minutes early but ARE ON TIME you still have to pay the failure to appear AND "warrant" fee. Who the fuck charges you for issuing a warrant for your arrest and then charges you while they have you locked up for a friggen traffic ticket, most likely causing you to lose your job and the revenue source needed to pay the bullshit off???

They have created a true debtors prison in Ferguson and I argue that it is completely unconstitutional.

That is pretty messed up.

They allow that in my parish too. I have a guy working for me that is currently a "weekend warrior" in the parish jail. I'm not sure what he's in for, just that he can't work weekends.

But to pick up a person because of an unpaid traffic ticket they couldn't afford to pay, make them sit in jail for weeks waiting for court because they can't afford bail and then charge them $60 a day that they sat in jail (instead of as you note applying "time served" to their fine) is simply absurd. Those poor bastards will never get out of debt to people that can and DO throw your ass in jail if you can't pay up. It's a fucking racket that I personally consider a debtors prison which is flat out unconstitutional.

But hey, the police have nice shiny AR-15's and stuff that they point at peaceful protesters, without charges being filed to my knowledge (shove the he lost his job crap straight up your ass sideways, let me point an AR-15 at a cop and just lose my job and we can talk), so at least we know the money is going to good use. /sarcasm

I had an expired tag ticket. I had just put my truck engine back together, took it out for a test drive, and got popped. Perhaps because I was covered with grease and sweat, the nice officer told me that if I went to court and showed that I had renewed the tag, the judge would dismiss the ticket. And he did, all I had to pay was court costs. Which were exactly the same as the ticket, to the penny.

Certainly was a smart way to spend a vacation day.

 

[cabri]

So you are just going to continue spouting this nonsense even though I posted why your numbers are wrong?

for curiosity,
How many interactions have you had in your lifetime with the police?
How many were for some infraction?
Of those, how many became violent?
Of those, how many generated/resulted in deadly force to someone?

 

[DrPizza]

I'd also like a link to your claim of 400 deaths by law enforcement. My guess is that the number is from self reported deaths and not accurate at all as there is no mandatory reporting of such incidents.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/police-killings-data/14060357/

I only check this thread every couple of days to see if there's an update.

self-reported deaths????? WTF?!

"Hi, I'd like to report that I'm dead."

I'm going to take a wild guess that the actual number of self-reported deaths is approximately... zero.

 

[xBiffx]

I only check this thread every couple of days to see if there's an update.

self-reported deaths????? WTF?!

"Hi, I'd like to report that I'm dead."

I'm going to take a wild guess that the actual number of self-reported deaths is approximately... zero.

LOL. Can't wait for someone to argue with you.

 

[ivwshane]

I only check this thread every couple of days to see if there's an update.

self-reported deaths????? WTF?!

"Hi, I'd like to report that I'm dead."

I'm going to take a wild guess that the actual number of self-reported deaths is approximately... zero.

Perhaps you should just stay out of the thread if you aren't going to bother to follow it completely.

What's more telling is that you only bothered to quote part of my post, had you bothered to read the rest of it you would have understood what the fuck I was talking about.

Go troll somewhere else moron!

 

[werepossum]

I only check this thread every couple of days to see if there's an update.

self-reported deaths????? WTF?!

"Hi, I'd like to report that I'm dead."

I'm going to take a wild guess that the actual number of self-reported deaths is approximately... zero.

LMAO

 

[ivwshane]

LMAO

Yeah it is funny how someone doesn't understand the difference between "death" and "deaths".

 

[werepossum]

Yeah it is funny how someone doesn't understand the difference between "death" and "deaths".

Um, "deaths" is the plural of "death". Thus "self-reported deaths" literally denotes multiple individuals reporting their own individual deaths, as one cannot "self-report" something for someone else nor (by most definitions) die more than once.

I do understand what you were trying to say, but the term "self-reported deaths" is funny as heck.

 

[Riparian]

I only check this thread every couple of days to see if there's an update.

self-reported deaths????? WTF?!

"Hi, I'd like to report that I'm dead."

I'm going to take a wild guess that the actual number of self-reported deaths is approximately... zero.

While your post is quite amusing, his use of the term is correct because it's referring to the reporting of deaths by the officers. In fact, the USA Today quote right below your quoted text uses the same phrasing.

 

[xBiffx]

Um, "deaths" is the plural of "death". Thus "self-reported deaths" literally denotes multiple individuals reporting their own individual deaths, as one cannot "self-report" something for someone else nor (by most definitions) die more than once.

I do understand what you were trying to say, but the term "self-reported deaths" is funny as heck.

ROFL. Called it.

LOL. Can't wait for someone to argue with you.

Holy shit I need to take that guy off ignore just for the laughs. On second thought...

 

[cubby1223]

This is the news event that keeps on giving 😀
http://news.yahoo.com/eric-holder-ferguson-leakers-shut-video-195049186.html

Holder apparently is none-to-thrilled with the recent leaks from the grand jury trial. Calls it an attempt to sway public opinion. I don't know if the leaks are truth or if they are fiction, I only know that those are the two options, and are most certainly for the purpose of swaying public opinion. Let's look at the options:

(1) Leaks are false - whomever is leaking info, in the long run this is a self-defeating, causing greater problems, greater mistrust, to a department that is under close investigation and public scrutiny. Unless the leaks are coming from people who purposefully want to cause more problems and more conflict.

(2) Leaks are true - if I were someone who knew a false narrative had entered public opinion causing protest, riots, destruction, and generally damaging to the interactions between civilians and officers, I'd for sure want to sway public opinion to the truth.

What was that at the end of the video? A stern warning to leakers to shut up?

On the other hand, Obama's Justice Department has been consistent throughout his Presidency.

Whatever. At least we can trust those in charge to never put out false information to the public.

Yes! More gasoline on the fire! Because this whole incident has long since moved beyond the need for facts. It's entertainment. It's a sideshow. A quest for truth it is not. Oh, nobody wants to shape public opinion for personal gain, right?

😀

 

[cabri]

If the leaks are not beneficial to Holder railroading intentions, then they must be stopped.

 

[xBiffx]

Holder is handling the "leak" situation like he handles a gas leak. Lights a match, if it burns he is close. If it burns and explodes everywhere then he's found the leak.

 

[HumblePie]

I only check this thread every couple of days to see if there's an update.

self-reported deaths????? WTF?!

"Hi, I'd like to report that I'm dead."

I'm going to take a wild guess that the actual number of self-reported deaths is approximately... zero.

I actually understood what he was trying to say even though he said it in a way that could be easily misinterpreted. He meant to say police self reporting deaths that they cause.

 

[ivwshane]

I actually understood what he was trying to say even though he said it in a way that could be easily misinterpreted. He meant to say police self reporting deaths that they cause.

It's easier for the dimwitted to attack the poster than to actually address the point. It's what keeps their bubble intact😉

 

[cabri]

It's easier for the dimwitted to attack the poster than to actually address the point. It's what keeps their bubble intact😉

Please explain why there are so many here on P&N, on both sides of the fence that prefer to attack the poster when they challenge an opinion.

I am sure that someone who has been attacked by you would be able to find multiple posts as an example.:whiste:

 

[ivwshane]

Please explain why there are so many here on P&N, on both sides of the fence that prefer to attack the poster when they challenge an opinion.

I am sure that someone who has been attacked by you would be able to find multiple posts as an example.:whiste:

I give what I get😉 and if the post isn't outright crazy I do try and address the posters question or statements, did you not see the post I made with several links disputing the claim the person I was responding to made?

 

[TechBoyJK]

Protesters gave the police 'terms of engagement' for announcing whether or not there will be an indictment.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/06/us/ferguson-rules-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2