Missouri Police Officer guns down unarmed 18 year old

[IronWing]

I think folks tend to make the same mistake in this case that folks made with the George Zimmerman trial. The issue here was justice for Darren Wislon, not justice for Michael Brown. Likewise the the trial of George Zimmerman was not about justice for Martin. Neither Brown nor Martin were on trial or before a grand jury. The exoneration of Wilson and Zimmerman does not indict or convict Brown and Martin. They never had their day in court to offer a defense for their actions. What we know is that in the case of Zimmerman there was reasonable doubt concerning the charges against Zimmerman and in this case there was insufficient evidence to bring charges against Wilson. That's the extent of the judgements.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think folks tend to make the same mistake in this case that folks made with the George Zimmerman trial. The issue here was justice for Darren Wislon, not justice for Michael Brown. Likewise the the trial of George Zimmerman was not about justice for Martin. Neither Brown nor Martin were on trial or before a grand jury. The exoneration of Wilson and Zimmerman does not indict or convict Brown and Martin. They never had their day in court to offer a defense for their actions. What we know is that in the case of Zimmerman there was reasonable doubt concerning the charges against Zimmerman and in this case there was insufficient evidence to bring charges against Wilson. That's the extent of the judgements.

Justice was had, however that does not mean there should have been a trial to pronounce guilt or innocence. After reviewing some of the results of the GJ it seems that there was no basis for charges. That does not render the results of the encounter any less unfortunate nor do I celebrate the death of Brown, but it is what it is and there was no basis in reality for the thuggish (a word I seldom use) behavior of the mob and their bloodlust. No, they and their supporters have fallen far.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Here is an interesting tidbit from the NYT article this morning (at http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/u...p-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0):

Disorder broke out moments after Mr. McCulloch announced that Mr. Wilson would not face charges for the Aug. 9 shooting.

Mr. Brown’s mother, Lesley McSpadden, and stepfather, Louis Head, stood with protesters outside the barricaded Ferguson police station as Mr. McCulloch made the decision public. As Ms. McSpadden cried, Mr. Head turned and yelled, with an expletive injected, “Burn this down!”

One wonders whether Head will be charged with inciting a riot. I doubt it but one never knows . . .

 

[IronWing]

Justice was had, however that does not mean there should have been a trial to pronounce guilt or innocence. After reviewing some of the results of the GJ it seems that there was no basis for charges. That does not render the results of the encounter any less unfortunate nor do I celebrate the death of Brown, but it is what it is and there was no basis in reality for the thuggish (a word I seldom use) behavior of the mob and their bloodlust. No, they and their supporters have fallen far.

Justice was had for Wilson, not for Brown. Nor can there be justice for Brown; we have no means of providing that. This is where I see a huge disconnect in understanding why people take the positions they do wrt these cases. This grand jury proceeding was about Wilson, not about Brown. Folks looking for justice for Brown could never get it from a grand jury, regardless of finding. If we look at Brown's conduct we see nothing warranting a death penalty. If we look at Wilson's conduct we see nothing warranting an indictment. So we are left with a tragedy.

 

[HomerJS]

"There is not a black America and a white America and latino America and asian America - there's the United States of America." - Barack Obama

Huh, I guess words alone weren't sufficient enough to get the job done. Show us you were serious Mr. President and rein in Sharpton.

Bit of a canard since Sharpton was not in any lead role of the protests.

I'll play dueling canards GOP reign in Limbaugh and the Dems reign in Sharpton.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Bit of a canard since Sharpton was not in any lead role of the protests.

I'll play dueling canards GOP reign in Limbaugh and the Dems reign in Sharpton.

If you notice generals and politicians rarely lead the charge. They incite others to do their dirty work for them.

 

[Jaskalas]

You've apparently forgotten this

Yeah, we imagined something more like that based on reports.
Does it matter? He wasn't shot dead from the car, which probably would have been justified regardless...

It happened on the street, by account of witnesses saying Brown attempted to attack Wilson. End of story. No amount of changing the topic will overcome that justification.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If we look at Brown's conduct we see nothing warranting a death penalty.

Death penalty? I see it more like a judge on the Florida's 5th DCA put it concerning someone killed by another in self defense.

That the attacker sustained a mortal wound is a matter that should have been considered by the deceased before he committed himself to the task he undertook.

 

[Greenman]

Justice was had for Wilson, not for Brown. Nor can there be justice for Brown; we have no means of providing that. This is where I see a huge disconnect in understanding why people take the positions they do wrt these cases. This grand jury proceeding was about Wilson, not about Brown. Folks looking for justice for Brown could never get it from a grand jury, regardless of finding. If we look at Brown's conduct we see nothing warranting a death penalty. If we look at Wilson's conduct we see nothing warranting an indictment. So we are left with a tragedy.

What is justice for Brown? The man apparently believed he could do whatever he felt like doing, he was wrong, and it cost him his life. Now a whole bunch of people are going to use that tragedy as an excuse to pillage a town.
What about justice for store owners that lose everything? Or justice for the people injured by rioters? Why does Brown deserve justice when all the people victimized in his name don't?

This whole story is about retribution, vengeance, and violence for a cause that never existed.

 

[boomerang]

Bit of a canard since Sharpton was not in any lead role of the protests.

I'll play dueling canards GOP reign in Limbaugh and the Dems reign in Sharpton.

You have a habit of imposing conditions on your blessings. How about this, when Limbaugh becomes a "key advisor" to Obama we can revisit your thought processes.

 

[bshole]

Here is an interesting tidbit from the NYT article this morning (at http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/u...p-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0):



One wonders whether Head will be charged with inciting a riot. I doubt it but one never knows . . .

I would love to see that. We have a raging inferno, why not throw a tankful of gas on it...... The prosecutor would have real reason to fear for his own safety and well-being if he made such a bone-headed move.

 

[Painman]

No need to point the finger of blame. We are all to blame. We collectively let this fester and happen.

 

[alzan]

What is justice for Brown? The man apparently believed he could do whatever he felt like doing, he was wrong, and it cost him his life. Now a whole bunch of people are going to use that tragedy as an excuse to pillage a town.
What about justice for store owners that lose everything? Or justice for the people injured by rioters? Why does Brown deserve justice when all the people victimized in his name don't?

This whole story is about retribution, vengeance, and violence for a cause that never existed.

A "whole bunch of people"? What's your definition of "bunch"?

It is very unfortunate for the storeowners, they are among the innocent victims along with Michael Brown. Why didn't the police protect those businesses?

Or the story might be about the environment that has brought on the current day attitudes on all sides of the issues.

The "cause" you speak of is changing that environment

 

[HomerJS]

What is justice for Brown? The man apparently believed he could do whatever he felt like doing, he was wrong, and it cost him his life. Now a whole bunch of people are going to use that tragedy as an excuse to pillage a town.
What about justice for store owners that lose everything? Or justice for the people injured by rioters? Why does Brown deserve justice when all the people victimized in his name don't?

This whole story is about retribution, vengeance, and violence for a cause that never existed.

Think there would have been far less damage if the announcement had been 9a instead of @sundown?

 

[Retro Rob]

A "whole bunch of people"? What's your definition of "bunch"?

It is very unfortunate for the storeowners, they are among the innocent victims along with Michael Brown. Why didn't the police protect those businesses?

Or the story might be about the environment that has brought on the current day attitudes on all sides of the issues.

The "cause" you speak of is changing that environment

Hate to say it, but this isn't about justice -- this is about how deeply racist the black community has become.

Shucks, how many unsovled "black on black" killings are there with known killers being hidden from police?

They don't care about justice...just a pack of fools with nothing to do, wanting to terrorize others.

It's beyond embarassing.

 

[OutHouse]

I was careful not to pronounce judgement ahead of the GJ findings. I had opinions as to what was likely, however I hadn't a sufficient basis for drawing a conclusion, but that has changed. Wilson was not the attacker, but instead the victim and people like Sharpton do not care and never did about any of that. A black person was killed and that means the white cop should be hanged and the truth be damned and there's no way Sharpton and his thugs will let this rest. I've run out of patience for the excuses and justifications of this behavior in Ferguson and it's a damn good thing that I'm not king or there would be justice for everyone.

:thumbsup:

 

[TechBoyJK]

A "whole bunch of people"? What's your definition of "bunch"?

It is very unfortunate for the storeowners, they are among the innocent victims along with Michael Brown. Why didn't the police protect those businesses?

Or the story might be about the environment that has brought on the current day attitudes on all sides of the issues.

The "cause" you speak of is changing that environment

I really don't see Brown as a victim of anything more than his own stupidity and unchecked aggressiveness.

It should be common sense. If you jump off a 100 story building, you're going to die. If you attack a cop, you're going to die. It's common sense that Brown appears to have been ignorant of. Bad parenting? Most likely. His parents are aggressively looking for other people to blame.

 

[realibrad]

Hate to say it, but this isn't about justice -- this is about how deeply racist the black community has become.

Shucks, how many unsovled "black on black" killings are there with known killers being hidden from police?

They don't care about justice...just a pack of fools with nothing to do, wanting to terrorize others.

It's beyond embarassing.

As someone from CA, I hope this does not turn into 92 LA riots.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I really don't see Brown as a victim of anything more than his own stupidity and unchecked aggressiveness.

It should be common sense. If you jump off a 100 story building, you're going to die. If you attack a cop, you're going to die. It's common sense that Brown appears to have been ignorant of. Bad parenting? Most likely. His parents are aggressively looking for other people to blame.

Can't help but agree with this. :thumbsup: Don't want to get shot and killed? Don't attack a cop.

 

[cubby1223]

Oh look, the malicious tax evader speaks.

I've lost patience with people like him. I understand there has been pervasive discrimination but Sharpton and those in Ferguson who delighted in their destruction of the community are indeed savages. It is one thing to be empathetic with systemic problems but those who make excuses for this behavior merely make the situation worse. Obama said that he's felt how people looked at him with discomfort because he wasn't white, but when people look at blacks now they will see Ferguson burning and Sharpton calling for revenge. That's not going to help legitimate concerns nor anything else for that matter. This needs to stop. Now.

It doesn't matter because you are not Sharpton's target audience. Pissing you off is part of his hustle.

There's a scathing article on him that was recently posted to salon.com of all places, and one of the best quotes from the author is:

"No one can build a movement for justice on lies, grandiose distortions, vilification of innocent parties, intimidation of those who may have legitimate differences of opinion, and dehumanization of your political adversaries."

But, people like Sharpton have been pulling this crap for decades, making their living on this, he is politically connected up the wazoo, he's too old to change, and people who follow up, support him, do not want him to change.

 

[Svnla]

https://www.facebook.com/cnn/photos/pcb.10153091426536509/10153091417776509/?type=1


"gentle giant" "about to start college" my ass!!!

Don't want to get shot? DO. NOT. Attack. The. Police. Or anyone else, especially more and more people have CCW licenses. Perfect example from the T. Martin case.

When keep it real goes wrong, DEAD wrong.

 

[alzan]

Hate to say it, but this isn't about justice -- this is about how deeply racist the black community has become.

Shucks, how many unsovled "black on black" killings are there with known killers being hidden from police?

They don't care about justice...just a pack of fools with nothing to do, wanting to terrorize others.

It's beyond embarassing.

Once again it's all about the environment that foments the behaviors on all sides.

There are "packs of fools" on all sides of the issue.

 

[Atreus21]

It doesn't matter because you are not Sharpton's target audience. Pissing you off is part of his hustle.

There's a scathing article on him that was recently posted to salon.com of all places, and one of the best quotes from the author is:

"No one can build a movement for justice on lies, grandiose distortions, vilification of innocent parties, intimidation of those who may have legitimate differences of opinion, and dehumanization of your political adversaries."

But, people like Sharpton have been pulling this crap for decades, making their living on this, he is politically connected up the wazoo, he's too old to change, and people who follow up, support him, do not want him to change.

Has Sharpton ever been on the right side of a civil rights dispute?

 

[nyker96]

I think folks tend to make the same mistake in this case that folks made with the George Zimmerman trial. The issue here was justice for Darren Wislon, not justice for Michael Brown. Likewise the the trial of George Zimmerman was not about justice for Martin. Neither Brown nor Martin were on trial or before a grand jury. The exoneration of Wilson and Zimmerman does not indict or convict Brown and Martin. They never had their day in court to offer a defense for their actions. What we know is that in the case of Zimmerman there was reasonable doubt concerning the charges against Zimmerman and in this case there was insufficient evidence to bring charges against Wilson. That's the extent of the judgments.

I agree w/ this gentleman, I think in both Zimmerman, Wilson, cases, there's just NOT enough evidence to indict/convict. However, the general violence that followed signifies a wide spread discontentment w/ the treatments of the communities by the police. This is probably the larger issues. Statistically speaking, blacks tends to get more arrests, longer jail time for the same crimes. This is the overall issue they need to address. The exact details of both cases isn't as important, since everything happened so quickly, there's no definitive info to indict the shooter in either case so, the truth is probably unknowable to even the grand jury and the person who is dead can't really defend themselves in court and give their version of the story.

Overall, the freeing of both zimmerman and wilson says nothing about other person been guilty, because that's not what the trials about. And also I would say the lack of evidence to convict isn't the same as completely free of wrong doing. There's a huge difference there.

 

[Ichinisan]

A "whole bunch of people"? What's your definition of "bunch"?

It is very unfortunate for the storeowners, they are among the innocent victims along with Michael Brown. Why didn't the police protect those businesses?

Or the story might be about the environment that has brought on the current day attitudes on all sides of the issues.

The "cause" you speak of is changing that environment

Where did you get the idea that Michael Brown was an "innocent victim?" Do you not realize that physical evidence contradicts that assertion?