Missing the NHL?

[Fingolfin269]

Really, though, are you guys actually defending the NHL as a product, or are you just giving me shit? I don't mind the latter, but I can't believe you guys are defending a league that is about to cancel a season on you. You're the fans, do you really plan to go back and spend money on this bullshit league that has a work stoppage every 5-7 years?

Let's just put it this way, if we use your model and get rid of the Preds, then I'm no longer a fan of the NHL. I don't think I'm the target market for your argument.

 

[sdifox]

Let's just put it this way, if we use your model and get rid of the Preds, then I'm no longer a fan of the NHL. I don't think I'm the target market for your argument.

If you look at English Premier League, the bad teams get dropped down to lower tier. This should fix NHL but the owners won't go for it.

Random Googled article

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/europe/2011-05-22-epl-relegation_N.htm

 

[Fingolfin269]

If you look at English Premier League, the bad teams get dropped down to lower tier. This should fix NHL but the owners won't go for it.

Random Googled article

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/europe/2011-05-22-epl-relegation_N.htm

Isn't that all based on performance?

Nevermind, just googled that one myself.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_...er_league_to_championship_in_english_football

So in this case teams like the Preds and Coyotes would be fine.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Really, though, are you guys actually defending the NHL as a product, or are you just giving me shit? I don't mind the latter, but I can't believe you guys are defending a league that is about to cancel a season on you. You're the fans, do you really plan to go back and spend money on this bullshit league that has a work stoppage every 5-7 years?

One other thing, it's not really like a car where you can say screw this brand and go to something else. In the case of deciding to say goodbye to the NHL I will have to figure out somethig else to fill that void with something similar. I'm not an NBA fan and never will be. I'm a college bball fan but mainly during tournament time. That's the hard thing about deciding to just give up on a sport (and why most people say they will but never actually do in the long run). There's just nothing to replace it with.

 

[sjwaste]

Let's just put it this way, if we use your model and get rid of the Preds, then I'm no longer a fan of the NHL. I don't think I'm the target market for your argument.

OK, keep the Preds as you guys do show up to the games, are you still a fan of the NHL? The larger markets aren't going to share revenue, so you're locked into Shea Weber, Pekka Rinne, and a supporting cast indicative of a bottom third payroll. The league is broken, not because of teams like Nashville, who do actually try to build decent teams and do draw a good number of fans, but for teams like:

• Phoenix (literally a ward of the NHL)
• Devils (15k fans a night, lots of empty seats, despite being well run from a hockey perspective)
• Islanders (because NY needs 3 teams?)
• Columbus (RJ Umberger is now the franchise player)
• Florida (has Versteeg at 4.4 and Campbell at 7 to hit the cap floor)

And that's giving teams like Carolina and Tampa a pass because they actually do draw some fans and are well-run hockey teams.

There are too many teams in places that can't draw fans, and it's even worse when you look at the Isles and Columbus, where you wonder if management is actively trying to make bad decisions.

Meanwhile, they quite literally cannot sell enough tickets in Winnipeg - and that's not a one year thing, since the new season holders committed to a longer term. Toronto and Montreal are huge draws, and the Toronto area can definitely support another team. Quebec City is building a new arena because they know one of those above teams will have to move there or close up shop. Seattle is a potential draw, even with Vancouver nearby.

As a fan of the game, I can't just sit there and watch this trainwreck. The owners wanted their relo and expansion fees, and now that they have them, they want the NHLPA to support the bad business decisions instead of supporting the franchises they were in favor of creating. It's time to start moving some teams, since the NHLPA isn't going to let you contract any, nor does the NHL want to eat the buyout dollars. Which is a real shame, because there is a lot of marginal talent in the NHL. Losing 4 teams would go a long way in dumping the Andreas Nodls of the league.

One other thing, it's not really like a car where you can say screw this brand and go to something else. In the case of deciding to say goodbye to the NHL I will have to figure out somethig else to fill that void with something similar. I'm not an NBA fan and never will be. I'm a college bball fan but mainly during tournament time. That's the hard thing about deciding to just give up on a sport (and why most people say they will but never actually do in the long run). There's just nothing to replace it with.

I totally get that, but I'm frustrated a lot with the quality of the product. Wouldn't you like hockey a lot better if your team didn't have to play Columbus 8 times a season? I know I would love to drop the Islanders games from the Flyers schedule. And on top of that, they've decided to say fuck us and they're not playing.

 

[Balt]

At least they're not on SportsChannel anymore. Not sure how it's harder to watch now that its not on ESPN. It's still on basic cable and sometimes broadcast tv. Of course it will be difficult is you don't have cable. You don't get ESPN either. Cable cutters can pay to stream games.

IIRC the current tv deal lasts through 2020 so it's a non-factor in the lockout.

When I still had cable, the Versus Network (I believe it's called something else now?) was part of some tier that I would have had to pay extra for. That's why I was less likely to see them than when the games had been on ESPN.

And yeah without cable I don't expect to be able to follow much other than a few football games every week. Can't stand paying $80/month where there are only 3-4 channels I actually care to occasionally watch, though.

 

[iRONic]

I'm not a big fan of Grantland 'cuz I think Simmons is a poser but;

What I miss most about hockey are the different ways things look, and the different ways things sound. There is nothing in sports like walking out into an arena in which everything is dark except for the gleaming sheet of ice below. Nothing sounds quite like the hiss of the blades, and the different sounds of the different tiny detonations — a puck onto a stick, a puck onto the glass, a puck onto the boards, a body into the boards — that make up the action. They are all sharp and varied, like the argumentative calls of exotic crows. What I miss most about hockey are the many ways it is so different from everything else. Everything is so damned vivid. This is, of course, only part of the reason that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman needs to be rendered naked, smeared with honey and jam, and dragged behind a Zamboni across an endless field of anthills.

 

[AMDZen]

Sorry but I'm on the owners side on this. They offered a good deal, 50/50 and no rollbacks. Its the best deal the players could have reasonably expected. I don't know if its just Fehr or if he is truly echoing what the players want, but fuck him and fuck the players.

I think the issue is that hockey is large and in charge in so many places. Players can go to Europe, SEL and KHL and make about the same or more (namely for the Russians) where they don't give a shit if the whole season is lost. How else do you explain them not even coming to the table with a counter? Or scheduling another meeting to sit down with the league.

Fuck the players

 

[actuarial]

If you look at English Premier League, the bad teams get dropped down to lower tier. This should fix NHL but the owners won't go for it.

Random Googled article

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/europe/2011-05-22-epl-relegation_N.htm

You think the league would be better off financially if Montreal and Edmonton weren't part of it next year?

You think relegating the Leafs for 10-11 would have improved the league financially?

 

[sdifox]

You think the league would be better off financially if Montreal and Edmonton weren't part of it next year?

You think relegating the Leafs for 10-11 would have improved the league financially?

It would improve the game. As it stands right now, Maple Leaf Entertainment has no reason to improve their team's performance.

 

[iRONic]

Ahahaha!

The retards complaining about out of control salaries but keep handing them out want a do-over on the CBA they locked the players out last time to get.

Priceless...

 

[AMDZen]

It would improve the game. As it stands right now, Maple Leaf Entertainment has no reason to improve their team's performance.

Good. I'm sure you disagree but I personally like how the Leafs suck ass

 

[sdifox]

Good. I'm sure you disagree but I personally like how the Leafs suck ass

Really? You like to see a team not play their best?

I want a league where all teams try their best, win or lose.

 

[AMDZen]

Really? You like to see a team not play their best?

I want a league where all teams try their best, win or lose.

I just hate Brian Burke and his arrogance. I honestly believe he is doing his best to put a winning club on the ice, and just failing miserably. You seem to think its a conspiracy to make your team bad on purpose? Really? Or you just believe they want to rake it in and don't care about winning? Then why would they be doing so much to try and win. Brian Burke was highly sought after and he is paid handsomely.

They want to be a winning organization but just can't. Its kind of like, I dunno, they just belong there. Like Dan Snyder with the Redskins. He will write any check and do all it takes to "win" and just always fail. Its just ... tradition, I guess.

 

[sdifox]

I just hate Brian Burke and his arrogance. I honestly believe he is doing his best to put a winning club on the ice, and just failing miserably. You seem to think its a conspiracy to make your team bad on purpose? Really? Or you just believe they want to rake it in and don't care about winning? Then why would they be doing so much to try and win. Brian Burke was highly sought after and he is paid handsomely.

They want to be a winning organization but just can't. Its kind of like, I dunno, they just belong there. Like Dan Snyder with the Redskins. He will write any check and do all it takes to "win" and just always fail. Its just ... tradition, I guess.

no, not really. MLE hasn't cared about hockey in a long time. With the payroll Toronto has, it should never be out of playoff. I am not even asking for them to win the cup, I just want to see the team put in an honest effort and I have not seen that in a long time.

Nothing in what they have done indicate they want to be a winning team.

 

[AMDZen]

no, not really. MLE hasn't cared about hockey in a long time. With the payroll Toronto has, it should never be out of playoff. I am not even asking for them to win the cup, I just want to see the team put in an honest effort and I have not seen that in a long time.

Nothing in what they have done indicate they want to be a winning team.

I assume MLE is the owner? Bottom line is, BB is trying his best. Trading Tyler Seguin, Jared Knight and Dougie Hamilton for Phil Kessel. Luke Schenn for JVR. He has been as active as any GM in acquiring the talent he thinks will culminate in a winning team.

Those are the kind of deals he thinks are good. That is your problem. He is failing on high impact trades. At least IMO. Obviously the Schenn JVR trade has yet to work itself out but the Kessell trade was retarded. Yea he can score, he's also softer then Downie quadruple ply

How is that not an indication of him trying to build a winning team when making trades like that? We'll just agree to disagree. Brian Burke is failing at the job he was given, that is the issue. If he hadn't made that Kessel trade, I think you guys might be looking at the playoffs soon.

 

[sdifox]

I assume MLE is the owner? Bottom line is, BB is trying his best. Trading Tyler Seguin, Jared Knight and Dougie Hamilton for Phil Kessel. Luke Schenn for JVR. He has been as active as any GM in acquiring the talent he thinks will culminate in a winning team.

Those are the kind of deals he thinks are good. That is your problem. He is failing on high impact trades. At least IMO. Obviously the Schenn JVR trade has yet to work itself out but the Kessell trade was retarded. Yea he can score, he's also softer then Downie quadruple ply

MLE= Maple Leaf Entertainment, owner of Toronto Maple Leafs.

Again, spending money does not a good team make. Most players TML trade away shine in the other teams. It's almost like a national team where they don't spend enough ice together and gel. But they are not a national team.

 

[AMDZen]

Again, spending money does not a good team make. Most players TML trade away shine in the other teams. It's almost like a national team where they don't spend enough ice together and gel. But they are not a national team.

What in my comment says anything about spending money? I didn't say a damn thing about money, its the TRADES that BB has made. The trades man, the trades were bad

 

[iRONic]

I assume MLE is the owner? Bottom line is, BB is trying his best. Trading Tyler Seguin, Jared Knight and Dougie Hamilton for Phil Kessel.

-MLSE
-The Kessel transaction was for draft picks that turned into those players,

 

[sdifox]

-MLSE
-The Kessel transaction was for draft picks that turned into those players,

They don't do sports

 

[AMDZen]

-MLSE
-The Kessel transaction was for draft picks that turned into those players,

I know that. Two 1st round picks and a second was crazy. When the first 1st round pick was the second overall. Granted, they didn't know it would be that "good" or "bad" depending on the perspective, but it was a terrible trade IMO, no matter how you slice it

 

[sdifox]

What in my comment says anything about spending money? I didn't say a damn thing about money, its the TRADES that BB has made. The trades man, the trades were bad

Fair enough. Kessel trade was retarded.

 

[iRONic]

They don't do sports well

FTFY

 

[sdifox]

FTFY

no, it's a business. They could care less about the results as long as morons keep paying for the extortion they call ticket price. This is the primary reason why there is no way there is going to be another NHL franchise anywhere near Toronto. MLSE would not allow it and NHL is not about to piss off its cash cow.

 

[iRONic]

I know that. Two 1st round picks and a second was crazy. When the first 1st round pick was the second overall. Granted, they didn't know it would be that "good" or "bad" depending on the perspective, but it was a terrible trade IMO, no matter how you slice it

I think it was an excellent trade. Heh heh...

But really, nobody could foresee that first round pick becoming a lottery selection. Well, maybe Kreskin.