misconception about gas prices

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Looney
The instability of the middle-east is part of the factor in fluctuating oil prices, but i don't see you blaming Bush for making the middle-east unstable... oh that's right, it's the liberal. If Bush attacks Iran, and Iran mines the water and starts sinking oil tankers, i doubt you'll put the responsiblity on Bush... i'll bet you'll find a way to blame it on the liberals. LOL you're so predictable.

You're right. It is Bush's fault that Iran has been seeking nuclear capabilities since the 90s and before and they are coming to fruition now through the haplessness of the UN. It is Bush's fault that Iran's President is making lunatic statements about Israel needing to be wiped off the map. Yes. It is all clear now...

Lots of nations have nuclear weapons, including the US and Israel. Why can't they? Because they make threats? How many nations has Iran invaded? How many has the US? Who should the world be more afraid of?

Because contrary to your narrow point of view the US has a precedent for not starting wars for no apparent reason (OMG I am sure you will say Iraq had no grounds for military action) and also the US does not have a tendency to make open threats about wiping a civilization off the face of the Earth. Furthermore the US does in fact have a history of helping other countries in time of need, many times at the cost of American lives. I don't think there was every a time in history where there was a civilization that had the military and economic might of the United States and yet has wielded that power with careful and measured strokes. The US, again contrary to whatever agenda you subscribe to, has actually proven that we as a country are quite trustworthy.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: Ronstang
None of the tinfoil hat wearing liberals around here care anything about the truth if it does not support their agenda. I have tried in the past to explain where all the extra profit comes from when the per barrel price of oil is high but no one listens because it is not political. They don't want to understand. They are unhappy in their lives and cannot deal with the fact that there are things in this world outside their control....all the while lacking the ability to improve their own lives with the things they can control. Everything is always someone else's fault in their world and everything is always a conspiracy to keep them down.

The solution is obviously more government regulation. Why should big bu$iness get to make profits just because they provide us with oil?

That's right. Even Bush thought so (and gas was only $1.45 per gallon then)...

In 1999, he criticized Vice President Gore for rising prices and said President Clinton "must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices."

This time, prices have climbed on Bush's watch and his words against President Clinton and Al Gore from 2000 hang out there to be used, in turn, against him: "What I think the president ought to do," Bush said then, "is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say, `We expect you to open your spigots.'"

Yep, damn liberals spouting that we should involve government into big oil. Oh the irony! :laugh:

We can get on the phone with every oil cartel in the business, tell them to keep sending more oil, but that isn't going to make any difference at all if we can't refine it. The US stock of crude is at multi year highs, but that makes no difference at all in the world if you can't turn that black gold into gasoline. Why should the companies here make more refineries? Well of course to help the consumer, but is it going to help them any in the short term, of course not. How about the long term? They can pump out a new refinery in China in 2-3 years, try that here, I would imagine double maybe even triple that time frame.

I already know this. 9 permits have been issued since 1991 for new refineries. The oil companies could have started them up to 15 years ago but have chosen not to.

And as I've pointed out several times, having all the oil in the world doesn't help, but having lots of oil priced extremely high (compared to inventories) does indeed drive up the cost of gasoline....period!!!

Oil is driven by speculation and much of the specualtion is resulting from piss poor meddling in the ME and other oil producing regions.


And besides, I didn't state the above...Bush and Cheney did!

(must be a failed presidency by all means then! :laugh: )

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: Ronstang
None of the tinfoil hat wearing liberals around here care anything about the truth if it does not support their agenda. I have tried in the past to explain where all the extra profit comes from when the per barrel price of oil is high but no one listens because it is not political. They don't want to understand. They are unhappy in their lives and cannot deal with the fact that there are things in this world outside their control....all the while lacking the ability to improve their own lives with the things they can control. Everything is always someone else's fault in their world and everything is always a conspiracy to keep them down.

The solution is obviously more government regulation. Why should big bu$iness get to make profits just because they provide us with oil?

That's right. Even Bush thought so (and gas was only $1.45 per gallon then)...

In 1999, he criticized Vice President Gore for rising prices and said President Clinton "must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices."

This time, prices have climbed on Bush's watch and his words against President Clinton and Al Gore from 2000 hang out there to be used, in turn, against him: "What I think the president ought to do," Bush said then, "is he ought to get on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say, `We expect you to open your spigots.'"

Yep, damn liberals spouting that we should involve government into big oil. Oh the irony! :laugh:

We can get on the phone with every oil cartel in the business, tell them to keep sending more oil, but that isn't going to make any difference at all if we can't refine it. The US stock of crude is at multi year highs, but that makes no difference at all in the world if you can't turn that black gold into gasoline. Why should the companies here make more refineries? Well of course to help the consumer, but is it going to help them any in the short term, of course not. How about the long term? They can pump out a new refinery in China in 2-3 years, try that here, I would imagine double maybe even triple that time frame.

I already know this. 9 permits have been issued since 1991 for new refineries. The oil companies could have started them up to 15 years ago but have chosen not to.

And as I've pointed out several times, having all the oil in the world doesn't help, but having lots of oil priced extremely high (compared to inventories) does indeed drive up the cost of gasoline....period!!!

Oil is driven by speculation and much of the specualtion is resulting from piss poor meddling in the ME and other oil producing regions.

Damn right they have chosen not to, why should they, jumping through local, state and federal hoops, I think not. Oil is certainly driven by speculation and demand. Demand has gone nowhere except up and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. Gas is going nowhere but up, but no one needs a genius to tell us that. Fear and demand drive this market and it will continue to drive this market and yes prices at the pump will go right up with it.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Looney
The instability of the middle-east is part of the factor in fluctuating oil prices, but i don't see you blaming Bush for making the middle-east unstable... oh that's right, it's the liberal. If Bush attacks Iran, and Iran mines the water and starts sinking oil tankers, i doubt you'll put the responsiblity on Bush... i'll bet you'll find a way to blame it on the liberals. LOL you're so predictable.

You're right. It is Bush's fault that Iran has been seeking nuclear capabilities since the 90s and before and they are coming to fruition now through the haplessness of the UN. It is Bush's fault that Iran's President is making lunatic statements about Israel needing to be wiped off the map. Yes. It is all clear now...

Lots of nations have nuclear weapons, including the US and Israel. Why can't they? Because they make threats? How many nations has Iran invaded? How many has the US? Who should the world be more afraid of?

Because contrary to your narrow point of view the US has a precedent for not starting wars for no apparent reason (OMG I am sure you will say Iraq had no grounds for military action)

Why? The entire UN aside from Britain and a handful of smaller nations, didn't want to go to war immediately.

Did Iraq attack another nation after they were humiliatingly defeated in the first Gulf war? Were they involved in 9/11? Being lied to initially by Bush is understandable... he manipulated American fears to invade Iraq. But after all you now know, and you're still defending him? THAT'S inexcusible.

and also the US does not have a tendency to make open threats about wiping a civilization off the face of the Earth.

It's threats. The current Iranian government gets popular with things like that. If Israel really was threatened, Israel would take them out. Really though, how did you expect Iran to react when you start calling them part of an 'Axis of Evil'? Any good leader will rally their people around them.

Furthermore the US does in fact have a history of helping other countries in time of need, many times at the cost of American lives.

Much of it is in their own self-interest. Where was the US during Rwanda? How late was the US in getting involved in the Bosnian conflict? Neither of those countries had oil, that's why. If you're going to be peacekeepers, then you need to keep the peace in issues that doesn't directly benefit you, but for the good of the world.

I don't think there was every a time in history where there was a civilization that had the military and economic might of the United States and yet has wielded that power with careful and measured strokes.

The US is certainly a better superpower than Russia or China would be, no doubt about that. But to think that most of what you've done wasn't for your own self-interest is silly. You really think the best thing for the middle-east was to invade Iraq and destabilize the area? You really think the best interest for the world would be to go to war with Iran?

The US, again contrary to whatever agenda you subscribe to, has actually proven that we as a country are quite trustworthy.

As a nation, you're right... i think most of the world sees the US as a force for good. But the current administration, and thus US policy, isn't seen very highly around the world, and infact untrustworhy. The Bush administration essentially doesn't believe in the UN, and doesn't accept the Geneva Convention. Two things that the rest of the world highly values.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Damn right they have chosen not to, why should they, jumping through local, state and federal hoops, I think not. Oil is certainly driven by speculation and demand. Demand has gone nowhere except up and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. Gas is going nowhere but up, but no one needs a genius to tell us that. Fear and demand drive this market and it will continue to drive this market and yes prices at the pump will go right up with it.

In any other markets, when demand goes up, the competitors and producers attempt to jump in and fill that void so they can cash in... and eventually they bring the prices back down. When there's no competition, and the demand goes up, they don't need to increase the supply, because THEY CONTROL the supply. Instead, they increase the prices.

Classic monopolistic practices that would be illegal in any other industry or market.

 

[Taggart]

did P&N spill over into OT? :Q

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Taggart
did P&N spill over into OT? :Q

Every once and awhile, the levees break in P&N and all hell breaks lose (just like real life)!

 

[FoBoT]

Ben Stein is very smart, smarter than 98% of AT

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Ronstang
None of the tinfoil hat wearing liberals around here care anything about the truth if it does not support their agenda. I have tried in the past to explain where all the extra profit comes from when the per barrel price of oil is high but no one listens because it is not political. They don't want to understand. They are unhappy in their lives and cannot deal with the fact that there are things in this world outside their control....all the while lacking the ability to improve their own lives with the things they can control. Everything is always someone else's fault in their world and everything is always a conspiracy to keep them down.

LOL. You think "liberals" are the only ones in this country complaining about gas prices? If you believe that, I've got a few bridges (to nowhere) to see you! :laugh:

There is a HUGE difference in complaining about gas prices and complaining WHY gas prices are high.....big difference. I don't like the high prices but at least I understand why they are high and am not foolishly placing blame in the wrong place because it fits some misguided political agenda.

So you will be Ok with $4 per gallon this summer, because you understand you are being screwed by big oil.

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Damn right they have chosen not to, why should they, jumping through local, state and federal hoops, I think not. Oil is certainly driven by speculation and demand. Demand has gone nowhere except up and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. Gas is going nowhere but up, but no one needs a genius to tell us that. Fear and demand drive this market and it will continue to drive this market and yes prices at the pump will go right up with it.

In any other markets, when demand goes up, the competitors and producers attempt to jump in and fill that void so they can cash in... and eventually they bring the prices back down. When there's no competition, and the demand goes up, they don't need to increase the supply, because THEY CONTROL the supply. Instead, they increase the prices.

Classic monopolistic practices that would be illegal in any other industry or market.

Well then, there should be a nice simplistic answer to that A+ analysis, bust them up, that is as likely to happen as $1.25 gallon of gasoline this year or anytime for that matter. Too bad we're not paying what all the Europeans are paying at the pump.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Damn right they have chosen not to, why should they, jumping through local, state and federal hoops, I think not. Oil is certainly driven by speculation and demand. Demand has gone nowhere except up and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. Gas is going nowhere but up, but no one needs a genius to tell us that. Fear and demand drive this market and it will continue to drive this market and yes prices at the pump will go right up with it.

In any other markets, when demand goes up, the competitors and producers attempt to jump in and fill that void so they can cash in... and eventually they bring the prices back down. When there's no competition, and the demand goes up, they don't need to increase the supply, because THEY CONTROL the supply. Instead, they increase the prices.

Classic monopolistic practices that would be illegal in any other industry or market.

Well then, there should be a nice simplistic answer to that A+ analysis, bust them up, that is as likely to happen as $1.25 gallon of gasoline this year or anytime for that matter. Too bad we're not paying what all the Europeans are paying at the pump.

So you're advocating that the US raise it's taxes to the same level as the Europeans have on gasoline? You do realize that is what accounts for most of the difference in gasoline prices between the US and Europe (super high gasoline taxes).

 

[jlmadyson]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Damn right they have chosen not to, why should they, jumping through local, state and federal hoops, I think not. Oil is certainly driven by speculation and demand. Demand has gone nowhere except up and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. Gas is going nowhere but up, but no one needs a genius to tell us that. Fear and demand drive this market and it will continue to drive this market and yes prices at the pump will go right up with it.

In any other markets, when demand goes up, the competitors and producers attempt to jump in and fill that void so they can cash in... and eventually they bring the prices back down. When there's no competition, and the demand goes up, they don't need to increase the supply, because THEY CONTROL the supply. Instead, they increase the prices.

Classic monopolistic practices that would be illegal in any other industry or market.

Well then, there should be a nice simplistic answer to that A+ analysis, bust them up, that is as likely to happen as $1.25 gallon of gasoline this year or anytime for that matter. Too bad we're not paying what all the Europeans are paying at the pump.

So you're advocating that the US raise it's taxes to the same level as the Europeans have on gasoline? You do realize that is what accounts for most of the difference in gasoline prices between the US and Europe (super high gasoline taxes).

I'm advocating nothing; he is going on comparing this market to every other one, too bad it's not as simple as that.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Vic
As soon as any person subscribes to the belief system of a particular group, they no longer have the ability to think for themselves anymore or to formulate their own beliefs on their own. So yes, to them, the group perception IS reality. Real becomes subjective views that conform to the policies of the group, and not objective observation.

Apparently you have some issue with associating with a group of people - else you wouldn't be making this statement. You may not be able to keep your individual beliefs, but hate to inform you there are many - if not most - people who can easily identify themselves with a particular group yet be able to think for themselves.

What appears to be your shortcomings should not be applied to the general population.

Ah, a perfect example of my point. I stated a fact backed by objective observation, and in turn I am personally attacked by a subjective view. Nice work. Sorry I ruffled your feathers with reality. :roll:

I have no problem associating with a group (or groups) of people. I did NOT say anything against "identifying" or "associating" with groups. That switch in terms was a straw man on your part. I stated the simple fact that when a person assigns their belief systems to a group then they no longer think for themselves... BY DEFINITION. One cannot conform to a group and be independent at the same time. One cannot accept the group view and create a potentially conflicting personal view at the same time. Or how about you prove otherwise before you continue making personal ad homs against me? Kthxbye.

 

[GeneValgene]

i think people are forgetting the factor china is playing in prices as well...their oil demands are increasing exponentially, as they are developing at a crazy rate

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: GeneValgene
i think people are forgetting the factor china is playing in prices as well...their oil demands are increasing exponentially, as they are developing at a crazy rate

While true, China uses around 20% of what the US loses. Also, oil inventories are at an 8 year high. Oil prices (not gas) are being spurred by speculation, fear, etc. Supply/Demand isn't setting that 70+ price tag right now.

 

[bctbct]

Time to flood the market with the reserves....maybe that will scare the ****** out of speculators and they will put their money where it belongs, in the stock market improving my retirement accounts.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: miri

Originally posted by: altonb1
I find it ironic that the liberals scream about gov't intervention regarding oil prices are the SAME liberals that protest against drilling i n Alaska, the building of new refineries, etc. It's really a joke....

i thought liberals were for higher gas prices since that would encourage more economical vehicles and fuel conservation which would lead to less pollution.

Yeah, when others have to pay it.

 

[GeneValgene]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: GeneValgene
i think people are forgetting the factor china is playing in prices as well...their oil demands are increasing exponentially, as they are developing at a crazy rate

While true, China uses around 20% of what the US loses. Also, oil inventories are at an 8 year high. Oil prices (not gas) are being spurred by speculation, fear, etc. Supply/Demand isn't setting that 70+ price tag right now.

darn speculation! i hate you

 

[MidasKnight]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
None of the tinfoil hat wearing liberals around here care anything about the truth if it does not support their agenda. I have tried in the past to explain where all the extra profit comes from when the per barrel price of oil is high but no one listens because it is not political. They don't want to understand. They are unhappy in their lives and cannot deal with the fact that there are things in this world outside their control....all the while lacking the ability to improve their own lives with the things they can control. Everything is always someone else's fault in their world and everything is always a conspiracy to keep them down.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Fenixgoon]

well let's see... first they have to find oil, then drill down, then extract, ship to refinery, refine multiple times over for specific regions/cities, then ship.. and STILL, STILL - gas costs less than a gallon on milk and they're able to make a profit. as much as "hate" big oil, i have a lot of respect for its ability to commoditize such an inaccessible resource

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Engineer
Again, doesn't matter which party you affiliate with. In the real world, the answers by MOST people are the same (big oil, Bush, etc). You might understand...you might not. Doesn't change the majority of the peoples views and you using this a political propaganda just doesn't cut the mustard here.

What are you talking about? So if most people say something it is all of a sudden true? Sad life you must live if you believe that. I don't see MOST people saying that anyway, must be the circles you travel in. I don't know anyone who is blaming Bush or the oil companies for the high price of gas because my friends happen to be educated on the matter.

Did I say it was true? I've said that speculation has driven the oil market for some time. Unrest in the ME, US meddling in oil producing countries causing unrest, etc. is the reason for cruide prices being "traded" so high. Refinery capacity is the biggest reason for gasoline prices. 9 permits have been issued for new refineries since 1991. Not one have been started and most likely, never will be.

Also, vic, you can believe what you wish. Most people on the street blame big oil and Bush. Take that how you will. I've touted your "speculation" ideas for some time now and you know it. The current crude market is in "irrational exuberance" driven by many factors.

I had heard that on the news that more oil refineries need to be built. The present ones cannot keep up with the demand. Thats what I heard on CNN, sometime ago.

 

[tyler811]

Also is it not both buyer speculation and OPEC together why prices are so high?


When some thing does happen why do the prices at the pump jump up right now? Isnt the gas in the ground already paid for?

 

[SparkyJJO]

very interesting article. And really, I don't care who controls prices or what does, I wish that whatever was making the prices go so high would stop it and give us a better price, closer to the $2 mark instead of $3.

 

[mchammer]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
very interesting article. And really, I don't care who controls prices or what does, I wish that whatever was making the prices go so high would stop it and give us a better price, closer to the $2 mark instead of $3.

Each one of us controls the price. It is a personal choice to use oil, and in fact many people in this country do not even own a car. Oil being available at an affordable price is not a right or a guarantee.

People always want some else to solve the problem while in fact each one of us has the power to change a piece of the world.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Can you think how much better off this planet will be once we finally develop an alternative source of energy for transportation?