Minimum Wage/EITC

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

Way to dodge the question.

The U.S. gave up manufacturing for a service based Mickey D's economy where do you expect these people to go???

How did I dodge the question? I answered it in my first sentence.

Clearly these people aren't flocking to minimum wage jobs considering minimum wage jobs only make of 2% of the work force and only half of that is over 25.

That's bull.

Only 2% of the Country staffing all the fast food places in the U.S., come on :roll:

Even a lot of the people staffing a fast food place makes above minimum wage, only the morons that can't even salt the fries correctly stay at minimum wage, wake up Dave.

Those "Morons" are Americans and thanks to Republicans hating any American that's not like them, I have a great chance for their vote.

Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Aisengard]

Well, at least we know that Conservatives are out of touch.

Raising the minimum wage raises the baseline for pay. When the baseline increases, nearly all hourly rates increase. And yes, that affects large businesses more than small businesses. Unless you think that small businesses can afford to have hundreds upon hundreds of redundant worker bees. That's reserved for corporations.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: UberNeuman
If raising the min wage translates to nothing, then why oppose it?

Again, it doesn't translate to nothing. It increases inflation slightly, raises unemployment slightly overall, and makes it harder for small businesses to compete with large corporations. These effects are even larger in more rural areas where cost of living is much lower.

I'm still not seeing why we should be raising minimum wage as opposed to just raising the EITC.

Being a small business owner ....

I would say that it makes it harder for large business to compete against small business.

In small business we evaluate each applicant on the value to our business and are able to adjust and pay accordingly. Large business has an entry level wage and regardless of qualifications that is what an applicant gets.

Large business of course has more lobbyists and gets its way in the Congress.

Another reason to elect me.

Power to the people not the giant Corporations.

I look forward to your vote and could use you on my staff.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

Way to dodge the question.

The U.S. gave up manufacturing for a service based Mickey D's economy where do you expect these people to go???

How did I dodge the question? I answered it in my first sentence.

Clearly these people aren't flocking to minimum wage jobs considering minimum wage jobs only make of 2% of the work force and only half of that is over 25.

That's bull.

Only 2% of the Country staffing all the fast food places in the U.S., come on :roll:

Even a lot of the people staffing a fast food place makes above minimum wage, only the morons that can't even salt the fries correctly stay at minimum wage, wake up Dave.

Those "Morons" are Americans and thanks to Republicans hating any American that's not like them, I have a great chance for their vote.

Thanks :thumbsup:

I couldn't have said it better myself. You will definitely get the moron vote.

No where did I say that the morons that stay at minimum wage are not Americans, and I do not hate them. Giving them a raise for doing absolutely nothing does not help them in the long run. Sure, it might feel good to give them a raise my raising the minimum wage, but it just reinforces the point that the government will take care of them and that there is no need to improve yourself. All that does is enable them to stay down at that level, why do you want to keep people down?

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: UberNeuman
If raising the min wage translates to nothing, then why oppose it?

Again, it doesn't translate to nothing. It increases inflation slightly, raises unemployment slightly overall, and makes it harder for small businesses to compete with large corporations. These effects are even larger in more rural areas where cost of living is much lower.

I'm still not seeing why we should be raising minimum wage as opposed to just raising the EITC.

Being a small business owner ....

I would say that it makes it harder for large business to compete against small business.

In small business we evaluate each applicant on the value to our business and are able to adjust and pay accordingly. Large business has an entry level wage and regardless of qualifications that is what an applicant gets.

Large business of course has more lobbyists and gets its way in the Congress.

Another reason to elect me.

Power to the people not the giant Corporations.

I look forward to your vote and could use you on my staff.

Hey Dave, your secretary of the interior called... said you need to move your comic books off the kitchen table.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

Way to dodge the question.

The U.S. gave up manufacturing for a service based Mickey D's economy where do you expect these people to go???

How did I dodge the question? I answered it in my first sentence.

Clearly these people aren't flocking to minimum wage jobs considering minimum wage jobs only make of 2% of the work force and only half of that is over 25.

That's bull.

Only 2% of the Country staffing all the fast food places in the U.S., come on :roll:

Even a lot of the people staffing a fast food place makes above minimum wage, only the morons that can't even salt the fries correctly stay at minimum wage, wake up Dave.

Those "Morons" are Americans and thanks to Republicans hating any American that's not like them, I have a great chance for their vote.

Thanks :thumbsup:

I couldn't have said it better myself. You will definitely get the moron vote.

No where did I say that the morons that stay at minimum wage are not Americans, and I do not hate them. Giving them a raise for doing absolutely nothing does not help them in the long run. Sure, it might feel good to give them a raise my raising the minimum wage, but it just reinforces the point that the government will take care of them and that there is no need to improve yourself. All that does is enable them to stay down at that level, why do you want to keep people down?

No, that would be welfare in general. I think that someone willing to work for minimum wage should be at least given a proportional income increase over time as other benchmark costs increase. If there are so few on minimum wage now, as the naysayers keep braying, then it really won't affect much of the workforce, right? And for those who are actually trying to feed their families, or pay for school, etc .. it would give them a better chance at staying afloat. I have been there, and still have some friends making the minimum or close to it. It's the type of situation where you can barely afford food, barely afford to put gas in the tank (if you even have a car), no savings, no health insurance. Two weeks of full time pay gets you $400ish and then you run into the taxman. One emergency, and you're forced to put one of your bills off, and of course all your creditors love to soak you in late payments and high interest. Bank acount go negative $3? That'll be a $30 nsf fee, please. Get a ticket because your inspection is out and you can't afford the $50 state inspection? That'll be $250 or you go to jail, sir.

Our economy is set up right now to destory poor people, or to demoralize them into either becoming homeless bums or just give up and get on some kind of welfare.

I'm no socialist, and I believe in no big-government magic fixes, but it seems that we should at least put some kind of structure in place to support the poorest among us that are actually gainfully employed and trying to make something of themselves.

The downsides that have been mentioned have either been drastic exaggerations or overgeneralizations. Primarily because this affects only 2% of the people (according to some), though I believe that it is more likely 10% or more of the US employees that are making either the minimum or within $1-$2 of it.

 

[lyssword]

LoL people here think its supply and demand, that if employers are not paying their employees enough money they will just become unemployed. Sorry but sometimes thats not an option unless you want to become a bum, you will always want some kind of job, low paying or not.. My $.02

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: charrison

Yes, but raising minimum wage also causes a rise in prices. So the end result is nothing but having passed feel good legislation.

The rise in prices is negligible; the benefit to the economy is more, since they spend it all.

As opposed to money in the pockets at the top, which goes mostly just to acquire more ownership, rather than helping the economy.

(If they do use some for growth, there's a good chance it's overseas).

If raising minimum wage a$1/ hour is a good idea, why not raise it to $100/hour. Then there would no longer be any working poor. The end result will be the same, the raised cost of doing business will filter back to the consumer in price increases.

If taking two pills for something is good, why not take 200? If losing 10 pounds is good, why not 150? If giving people enough to buy food is good, why not buy them mansions?

Your argument is too childish to answer.

WIth virtually any public policy, there's 'too little', 'about right', and 'too much'. That's the debate. Was the 'about right' tax rate for the top incomes Eisenower's 90% or 35% now?

But responding to JFK's cutting it from 90% to 70% with an argument 'why not cut it to 1% then' is not worth a response, it has nothing to do with the 'about right' level.

 

[nocash]

I live in an area that minimum wage is the starting pay in most jobs here. For those of you whining that nobody pays that then a boost wasnt meant to help your area. But it most certainly will help this area. There has been job growth here, but mostly scumbag companys wanting to pay minimum and know they would have plenty of takers. Now if we would raise it just in this state that would push those jobs to neighboring states. There is alot more to this country then just the big cities, and outside of those areas people are struggling along at minimum wage

 

[myocardia]

I agree with the Speaker of the House-elect. $7.25-7.50/hour is about right, although I still think it would be almost impossible to survive on $7.50/hour, in most U.S. cities.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: nocash
I live in an area that minimum wage is the starting pay in most jobs here.

For those of you whining that nobody pays that then a boost wasnt meant to help your area.

But it most certainly will help this area.

There has been job growth here, but mostly scumbag companys wanting to pay minimum and know they would have plenty of takers.

Now if we would raise it just in this state that would push those jobs to neighboring states.

There is alot more to this country then just the big cities, and outside of those areas people are struggling along at minimum wage

Welcome to P&N

Thank you for your first hand information.

It's no wonder your area voted Blue instead of Red.

People have been directly affected by the Republican Corporate Agenda and they voted showing how it has negatively affected them.

Good luck to the people in your area, I look forward to their vote.

 

[GoPackGo]

If there were no minimum wage, then companies would push as low as they can go.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
If there were no minimum wage, then companies would push as low as they can go.

OMFGBBQ :shocked:

Thank you, I cannot believe you said that.

I look forward to your vote and support :thumbsup:

 

[GoPackGo]

I have always felt that mimium wage increases should change based on inflation/cost of living. It should be automatic and not wait for an act of Congress.

Of course, states can always go higher...never lower..as well as local communities.

 

[DealMonkey]

The federal minimum wage ($5.15) hasn't been raised since 1997. Clearly once every 10 years we should at least adjust for inflation. Adjusted for inflation, that $5.15/hr translates to $4.04. Pathetic.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: UberNeuman
If raising the min wage translates to nothing, then why oppose it?

Again, it doesn't translate to nothing. It increases inflation slightly, raises unemployment slightly overall, and makes it harder for small businesses to compete with large corporations. These effects are even larger in more rural areas where cost of living is much lower.

I'm still not seeing why we should be raising minimum wage as opposed to just raising the EITC.

Being a small business owner ....

I would say that it makes it harder for large business to compete against small business.

In small business we evaluate each applicant on the value to our business and are able to adjust and pay accordingly. Large business has an entry level wage and regardless of qualifications that is what an applicant gets.

Large business of course has more lobbyists and gets its way in the Congress.

I;d think just the opposite. A big business can filter or hide the costs easier than a small business can when it comes time to sell their product.

Just like taxation, I think small business is hurt more by this than big business.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Well, at least we know that Conservatives are out of touch.

Raising the minimum wage raises the baseline for pay. When the baseline increases, nearly all hourly rates increase. And yes, that affects large businesses more than small businesses. Unless you think that small businesses can afford to have hundreds upon hundreds of redundant worker bees. That's reserved for corporations.

Think about what you just wrote and tell us who is out of touch.

You even admit when you raise the min wage the effect is everybodyies wage is increased. That is inflation, when inflation hits, you are set back to square one. So what did you gain by increasing the wage? Nothing because the costs of living just increased with it.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
If there were no minimum wage, then companies would push as low as they can go.

They already try to push it as low as they can go. So why does only ~2% of the work force work for the abosulte lowest they are allowed to go?

Obviously you attempt to claim if there was no min wage, we would all be working for 2 bucks if false.

 

[Genx87]

btw my take on it is if raising the min wage is the key to solving the poverty problems, why havent we told the entire 3rd world to mandate 100 dollar and hour min wages? You'd have people in Africa making 800 bucks a day, over 200K a year. That is rich in my book!

Because you need productivity to go along with that 100 bucks an hour. Inflation will also wither that 100 bucks an hour back to the pennies it is worth today.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Genx87
btw my take on it is if raising the min wage is the key to solving the poverty problems, why havent we told the entire 3rd world to mandate 100 dollar and hour min wages? You'd have people in Africa making 800 bucks a day, over 200K a year. That is rich in my book!

Because you need productivity to go along with that 100 bucks an hour. Inflation will also wither that 100 bucks an hour back to the pennies it is worth today.

Try working for minimum wage and then get back to us.

Thank you

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I have always felt that mimium wage increases should change based on inflation/cost of living.

It should be automatic and not wait for an act of Congress.

Of course, states can always go higher...never lower..as well as local communities.

Well I'll be.

You can be human.

I'm truly shocked.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
If there were no minimum wage, then companies would push as low as they can go.

They already try to push it as low as they can go. So why does only ~2% of the work force work for the abosulte lowest they are allowed to go?

Obviously you attempt to claim if there was no min wage, we would all be working for 2 bucks if false.

You are contradicting the statements made.

Admittedly by everyone here, minimum wage affects a small fraction of the US population (some put it at 2%, I view it as closer to 10% that work for or near min. wage).

So, why would you deliberately put words in his mouth about 'we would all be working for 2 bucks'. He never said that, not even close. He said, quite clearly and simply, that companies would push as low as they can go. This is undeniable, and they already do wherever they can, it's simple logic. Legality is only one factor. There are many forces to bear. Minimum wage affects most people very little, but those that it directly affects it affects massively.

This is typical of someone losing an argument. They throw out some ridiculous statement supposedly said by (but never in reality) the opposing side, and then they pounce on the lie with zeal. GG.

The truth is that there are decent points on both sides of this issue, and it is not such a cut and dry topic.

Gen, don't try to short-circuit rational debate by such petty childish antics, your opinion will have much greater weight without the deliberately false interpretations of what others have to say. Disagree with clear and understandable logic, and then will have something to talk about.

 

[Aisengard]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Well, at least we know that Conservatives are out of touch.

Raising the minimum wage raises the baseline for pay. When the baseline increases, nearly all hourly rates increase. And yes, that affects large businesses more than small businesses. Unless you think that small businesses can afford to have hundreds upon hundreds of redundant worker bees. That's reserved for corporations.

Think about what you just wrote and tell us who is out of touch.

You even admit when you raise the min wage the effect is everybodyies wage is increased. That is inflation, when inflation hits, you are set back to square one. So what did you gain by increasing the wage? Nothing because the costs of living just increased with it.

Derrrrr nope! The point of inflation is based on the value of the dollar. Only hourly-wage earners at the lowest scale would be affected. So would the value of the dollar go down? Not really. That only happens when everyone gets increases in salary. This is just pushing up the bottom to a more reasonable level.

I mean, that's the conservative mantra, right? Push up the bottom, as opposed to pulling down the top. Right?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Aisengard

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Well, at least we know that Conservatives are out of touch.

Raising the minimum wage raises the baseline for pay. When the baseline increases, nearly all hourly rates increase. And yes, that affects large businesses more than small businesses. Unless you think that small businesses can afford to have hundreds upon hundreds of redundant worker bees. That's reserved for corporations.

Think about what you just wrote and tell us who is out of touch.

You even admit when you raise the min wage the effect is everybodyies wage is increased. That is inflation, when inflation hits, you are set back to square one. So what did you gain by increasing the wage? Nothing because the costs of living just increased with it.

Derrrrr nope! The point of inflation is based on the value of the dollar. Only hourly-wage earners at the lowest scale would be affected. So would the value of the dollar go down? Not really. That only happens when everyone gets increases in salary. This is just pushing up the bottom to a more reasonable level.

I mean, that's the conservative mantra, right? Push up the bottom, as opposed to pulling down the top. Right?

Uh you said this

When the baseline increases, [nearly all hourly rates increase. And yes, that affects large businesses more than small businesses

This indicates you are talking about more than the 2% of people working for min wage. When wages rise across the board so does inflationary pressures. When inflation takes hold we move back to square one.

Artificially raising the min wage is not pulling people up.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
If there were no minimum wage, then companies would push as low as they can go.

They already try to push it as low as they can go. So why does only ~2% of the work force work for the abosulte lowest they are allowed to go?

Obviously you attempt to claim if there was no min wage, we would all be working for 2 bucks if false.

You are contradicting the statements made.

Admittedly by everyone here, minimum wage affects a small fraction of the US population (some put it at 2%, I view it as closer to 10% that work for or near min. wage).

So, why would you deliberately put words in his mouth about 'we would all be working for 2 bucks'. He never said that, not even close. He said, quite clearly and simply, that companies would push as low as they can go. This is undeniable, and they already do wherever they can, it's simple logic. Legality is only one factor. There are many forces to bear. Minimum wage affects most people very little, but those that it directly affects it affects massively.

This is typical of someone losing an argument. They throw out some ridiculous statement supposedly said by (but never in reality) the opposing side, and then they pounce on the lie with zeal. GG.

Before claiming any kind of victory in your argument lets see what his response is. You have failed to indicate what you think he means outside of driving wages to the lowest. Something you and I admit they already do. My 2 bucks an hour comment was done for effect obviously, not because it was an indication of what he thinks. I do however believe he truely thinks if we got rid of the min wage all of our wages would magically decrease overnight. Something I think is completely false due to market conditions.