Minimum Wage/EITC

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Sounds like rich corporate crybaby-talk to me

No matter who's statistics you accept, there are still millions of people on minimum wage, and there are two further things to think about.

Most minimum wage jobs are at corporate establishments that could certainly afford to cut back on some 100 million dollar corporate wages to treat their employees a bit better.

Also, by having workers that make more money, they're more likely to SPEND more money, the whole concept of capitalism

Yes, but raising minimum wage also causes a rise in prices. So the end result is nothing but having passed feel good legislation.

If raising minimum wage a$1/ hour is a good idea, why not raise it to $100/hour. Then there would no longer be any working poor. The end result will be the same, the raised cost of doing business will filter back to the consumer in price increases.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: 1prophet
What is the impact of increasing the minimum wage and its effect on making illegal workers more desirable by employers?

If they're already paying people under the table below min wage, why would it matter what min wage is?

It would make it cheaper for more to do it.....

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Craig234
The unemployment rate tends to decrease when minimum wages increase occur.

I'm assuming you're referring to the Card and Krueger study. They are very good economists but equally good economists found major faults in their study. So the jury is still out on that one.

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Sounds like rich corporate crybaby-talk to me

No matter who's statistics you accept, there are still millions of people on minimum wage, and there are two further things to think about.

Most minimum wage jobs are at corporate establishments that could certainly afford to cut back on some 100 million dollar corporate wages to treat their employees a bit better.

Also, by having workers that make more money, they're more likely to SPEND more money, the whole concept of capitalism

Also, previous minimum-wage hikes have not been disastrous to the economy or to the people trying to support themselves and their families. Better than just having them sit at home collecting welfare.

Do you have some evidence showing most minimum wage jobs are at large corporations? I'm curious to find that out.

I'm not seeing why the EITC can't be used as a better anti-poverty tool. It's been shown to increase worker participation. Also, if the people want to fight poverty, then why shouldn't they pay for it? Why force businesses to?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: 1prophet
What is the impact of increasing the minimum wage and its effect on making illegal workers more desirable by employers?

If they're already paying people under the table below min wage, why would it matter what min wage is?

His point is that it might encourage more employers to start hiring illegals and paying them less than min wage under the table.

 

[senseamp]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: 1prophet
What is the impact of increasing the minimum wage and its effect on making illegal workers more desirable by employers?

If they're already paying people under the table below min wage, why would it matter what min wage is?

His point is that it might encourage more employers to start hiring illegals and paying them less than min wage under the table.

There are remedies for lawbreakers. You smack a few down to make an example, and the rest will get in line.

 

[Wheezer]

if you are over the age of 25 and still making minimum wage, you have got FAR bigger problems than just working for minimum.

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: 1prophet
What is the impact of increasing the minimum wage and its effect on making illegal workers more desirable by employers?

If they're already paying people under the table below min wage, why would it matter what min wage is?

His point is that it might encourage more employers to start hiring illegals and paying them less than min wage under the table.

So, your argument is that we shouldn't raise the min wage because more employers would be tempted to break the law?

Here's a counterexample: we shouldn't allow women to wear skirts, because more rapists would be tempted to break the law.

 

[ScottMac]

Raising the minimum wage helps the government budget.

They get more in (temporary) tax collections.

The income tax goes back to the employee after they file, but the FICA / Medicare and other minor deductions stay in the coffers, plus the employer's match.

In some cases, I can see it reducing the take-home pay if the extra ($20-40 a week X number of jobs) pushes the person up in the tax brackets.

There's a possible ripple effect too, since people that were earning at that level want to continue making more than the "basic" employee at minimum.

All in all, the government comes out ahead of everyone else, individual or business.

.02

Scott

 

[Stunt]

Compensation should be determined by the market not the government. The argument for a minimum wage is always tied to cost of living, yet nobody has a clue what the cost of living is...there's just too much variation not just state to state but town to town, even community to community.

If people are not willing to work for a certain wage, there will be a high turnover rate as companies will not give wokers incentive to stay with that company. This requires additional costs for hiring, training and the like. If a company hires responsible people with displayed skills they will receive much more than minimum wage.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Compensation should be determined by the market not the government. The argument for a minimum wage is always tied to cost of living, yet nobody has a clue what the cost of living is...there's just too much variation not just state to state but town to town, even community to community.

If people are not willing to work for a certain wage, there will be a high turnover rate as companies will not give wokers incentive to stay with that company. This requires additional costs for hiring, training and the like.

If a company hires responsible people with displayed skills they will receive much more than minimum wage.

That's Bullsh!t now in this day and age of Corporate bought Government and you know it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Compensation should be determined by the market not the government. The argument for a minimum wage is always tied to cost of living, yet nobody has a clue what the cost of living is...there's just too much variation not just state to state but town to town, even community to community.

If people are not willing to work for a certain wage, there will be a high turnover rate as companies will not give wokers incentive to stay with that company. This requires additional costs for hiring, training and the like.

If a company hires responsible people with displayed skills they will receive much more than minimum wage.

That's Bullsh!t now in this day and age of Corporate bought Government and you know it.

It usually doesn't make business sense to pay the least possible amount; that's usually where you find the least competent and useless people. That's not even considering the costs I mentioned above.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

Way to dodge the question.

The U.S. gave up manufacturing for a service based Mickey D's economy where do you expect these people to go???

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

Way to dodge the question.

The U.S. gave up manufacturing for a service based Mickey D's economy where do you expect these people to go???

How did I dodge the question? I answered it in my first sentence.

Clearly these people aren't flocking to minimum wage jobs considering minimum wage jobs only make of 2% of the work force and only half of that is over 25.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

Way to dodge the question.

The U.S. gave up manufacturing for a service based Mickey D's economy where do you expect these people to go???

How did I dodge the question? I answered it in my first sentence.

Clearly these people aren't flocking to minimum wage jobs considering minimum wage jobs only make of 2% of the work force and only half of that is over 25.

That's bull.

Only 2% of the Country staffing all the fast food places in the U.S., come on :roll:

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

Way to dodge the question.

The U.S. gave up manufacturing for a service based Mickey D's economy where do you expect these people to go???

Just for clarity...a list of service jobs:
Healthcare/Hospitals
Insurance
Government
Tourism
Banking
Retail
Education
Franchising
Restaurants
Entertainment, including the Record industry, Music industry, Radio, Television and Movies.
News media
Leisure industry / hotels
Consulting
Transport
Utilities
Infrastructure
Wholesaling

I guess Lawyers, Doctors, Teachers, Financial Institutions are all "McJobs" Dave? :roll:

earth looks pretty blue Dave

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
if you are over the age of 25 and still making minimum wage, you have got FAR bigger problems than just working for minimum.

Why do so many on here completely avoid this? You are one hundred percent correct. I broke minimum wage when I was 15 working at McDonalds, why a capable adult would be working at minimum wage baffles me. But as you can see, many people on this board ignore personal accountability and think that the government has a solution to everything.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno
Why do so many on the left call for a minimum wage increase?

Would you stay at a job without a raise for ten years?

I sure wouldn't and I would venture to guess most people on the federal minimum wage wouldn't either. Labor and wages are not static, they change with time. Just because someone starts out on minimum wage doesn't mean that's where they will be in 10 years. Also, if you look the EITC is indexed with inflation so technically you would be getting a 'raise' every year.

Way to dodge the question.

The U.S. gave up manufacturing for a service based Mickey D's economy where do you expect these people to go???

How did I dodge the question? I answered it in my first sentence.

Clearly these people aren't flocking to minimum wage jobs considering minimum wage jobs only make of 2% of the work force and only half of that is over 25.

That's bull.

Only 2% of the Country staffing all the fast food places in the U.S., come on :roll:

Even a lot of the people staffing a fast food place makes above minimum wage, only the morons that can't even salt the fries correctly stay at minimum wage, wake up Dave.

 

[1prophet]

Little poem for those that think the service sector is the answer to the economic problems this country faces

Did they Ever
Teach You THIS
In School? . . .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I cannot ever understand how people fail to see
That our country's lasting wealth comes from INDUSTRY.

Industry means the farmer, the miner and manufactured goods
Real wealth comes from soil and factories and forests full of woods.

You take those raw materials - add labor, money, skill
And, out comes a new PRODUCT - a businessman can bill.

In that product is an element that wasn't there before.
Its proper name is "PROFIT" - and that's the bottom score.

Worker, boss and government in this brand-NEW wealth can share
And that's how lasting wealth is born - there is no secret there!

SERVICE JOBS DEPEND ON THESE and ONLY wealth like this
If you destroy this vital link the system goes amiss.

Not in ANY service job is REAL money to be found
All you see is same old money going 'round and 'round.

But, Government keeps spending on, without a care or thought
That all those useful programs must be paid for when they're bought.

Millions of PRODUCTIVE jobs have vanished overseas
Technology is no answer; unemployment it can't ease.

So, Uncle Sam prints money - more useless every day
Or borrows countless billions and promises to pay.

The reason we have deficits and multi-TRILLION debts
Is that we spend much more on services than America nets.

Economists who say "don't worry" are selling you illusion
Consult your sturdy common-sense and dissipate confusion.

If this destructive pattern you continue to endorse
BANKRUPTCY IS A PASSENGER on that "cart-before-the horse."


Taken from "Grandpa Gorman's Cleansing Shower" writings that are funny, nutty, and some that will make think

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Vic
A basic, low minimum wage level serves as a kind of fraud protection for the very lowest rung of workers. In this fashion, I support it. However, the latest rallying cries of needing to raise the minimum wage are just empty populism and nothing else. Very, very few workers actually make minimum wage. The majority of the those 6 million people are teenagers or restaurant servers making tips.

:thumbsup:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: fitzov

Originally posted by: 1prophet
What is the impact of increasing the minimum wage and its effect on making illegal workers more desirable by employers?

If they're already paying people under the table below min wage, why would it matter what min wage is?

His point is that it might encourage more employers to start hiring illegals and paying them less than min wage under the table.

So, your argument is that we shouldn't raise the min wage because more employers would be tempted to break the law?

Here's a counterexample: we shouldn't allow women to wear skirts, because more rapists would be tempted to break the law.

That wasn't my argument. It was 1prophet's. Learn to read. I shouldn't have to clarify every post for you when they are so plainly written.
As to my own position, I already posted it above.

 

[Moonbeam]

What do you do when you are born into a society of jobs you want no part of. Why should others spoil the world so others can't wonder around and pick fruit or go down to the sea to fish or sun themselves on any beach. Why do some get to say this is mine so others can't use it and have to subjugate themselves as slaves to earn dollars to live. Why can't the homeless sleep on the sidewalk in front of doors that are warm. You compete and win and leave others behind. What freedom is there if a man can't farm the ground he was born on and owe no one anything. It costs money to be born. Our world is one gigantic joke.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
What do you do when you are born into a society of jobs you want no part of. Why should others spoil the world so others can't wonder around and pick fruit or go down to the sea to fish or sun themselves on any beach. Why do some get to say this is mine so others can't use it and have to subjugate themselves as slaves to earn dollars to live. Why can't the homeless sleep on the sidewalk in front of doors that are warm. You compete and win and leave others behind. What freedom is there if a man can't farm the ground he was born on and owe no one anything. It costs money to be born. Our world is one gigantic joke.

If it is, it's our favorite joke.

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: UberNeuman
If raising the min wage translates to nothing, then why oppose it?

Again, it doesn't translate to nothing. It increases inflation slightly, raises unemployment slightly overall, and makes it harder for small businesses to compete with large corporations. These effects are even larger in more rural areas where cost of living is much lower.

I'm still not seeing why we should be raising minimum wage as opposed to just raising the EITC.

Being a small business owner ....

I would say that it makes it harder for large business to compete against small business.

In small business we evaluate each applicant on the value to our business and are able to adjust and pay accordingly. Large business has an entry level wage and regardless of qualifications that is what an applicant gets.

Large business of course has more lobbyists and gets its way in the Congress.