Mini-teams: pro AND con?

[Assimilator1]

Just to set the record straight:
I have never voiced any opinion against mini-teams

I knew that 😉

 

[mondobyte]

... hmmm

Where do I start.

If you intentfully wish to set a code of ethics that denies my contributions to a project for any reason, mini-teams, because I have 100 computers and others don't, etc ...

Apparently, my only recourse would be to very quickly vote with my feet and say adieu to Anandtech.

Alternatively, Anandtech could ban me from the forums but I sincerely doubt Anandtech would have the authority to ban my contributions to a project, irrespective of what ID or Team are represented by the contributions.

If you find a project that will respect our self imposed ethics, then I suspect that a mass exodus will ensue from that project to others that are indifferent to how much any entity contributes.

There are other teams out there that would welcome those of us who do what we can with what we have irrespective of our relative contributions.

This is all academic. Protest, Legislate, etc. but those of us with an opposing viewpoint will probably get the last vote ... We don't pay to belong here and we don't owe Anandtech anything for the privelege of crunching on this team.

I, for one, can put this squabble to an end ... and just leave.

by the way ... I think I would make a fairly highly ranked TEAM if I was the only member!

 

[RaySun2Be]

Mondo,
No one's proposing any ethics, or forced exclusions. We are just talking the pros/cons of mini-teams, in an open and respectful manner.

It wasn't clear if you were pro-mini-team or not. Are you saying that mini-teams deny your contribution in some way?

And I certainly value each and every TeAm mate, whether they produce 1 WU a day, or 1000 WUs a day. 🙂

 

[Wolfsraider]

How do we want it?

That is the right question.

I would love to see it kept: simple, fun, and friendly. Its all for the TeAm, Every individual counts... no matter where they crunch, its still all for the TeAm.

I would hate to see some of the all time great crunchers leave, simply because they made a bigger contribution.
Thank you all for the great responses, I toast all of you from the breakroom keg :beer:

I am thanking my lucky stars that I am on the right TeAm. I have only been here a few short years, but I can not think of a better place to call home.

Mike

Edit> I should have 2x the computers crunching by January if all goes well.

 

[petrusbroder]

Originally posted by: mondobyte
... hmmm

Where do I start.

If you intentfully wish to set a code of ethics that denies my contributions to a project for any reason, mini-teams, because I have 100 computers and others don't, etc ...

Apparently, my only recourse would be to very quickly vote with my feet and say adieu to Anandtech.

Alternatively, Anandtech could ban me from the forums but I sincerely doubt Anandtech would have the authority to ban my contributions to a project, irrespective of what ID or Team are represented by the contributions.

If you find a project that will respect our self imposed ethics, then I suspect that a mass exodus will ensue from that project to others that are indifferent to how much any entity contributes.

There are other teams out there that would welcome those of us who do what we can with what we have irrespective of our relative contributions.

This is all academic. Protest, Legislate, etc. but those of us with an opposing viewpoint will probably get the last vote ... We don't pay to belong here and we don't owe Anandtech anything for the privelege of crunching on this team.

I, for one, can put this squabble to an end ... and just leave.

by the way ... I think I would make a fairly highly ranked TEAM if I was the only member!

Mondo,
I have the impression that you may have misunderstood the idea of this thread: to openly discuss the pros and cons for mini teams.
As yet no one has found any cons.

No has proposed any imposed any code of ethics, no has proposed anything to limit anything - not the number of comps, the number of members, the size of contribution - that has not once been even discussed.

I have a very clear memory of this thread.
Where some posts down, you asked about the TeAm's opinion about you adding 600 - 700 comps to your project. All the answers - including mine - was: go ahead.
Just the fact, that you felt that the opinion of the TeAm was of any importance indicated that this matter was inflamed.
And I do not understand why. And - to judge from the posts in this thread - not many - if any do either.
What other teams think is not the theme of this discussion, that is their business, not ours

The consensus is - as said in a previous post: the mini-teams are not a problem, but rather an asset for the TeAm, for the projects and for the crunchers.

No one who has posted in this thread wishes you to leave the team. If you feel that anybody in this team has questioned your right to use as many computers as you want in whatever project you want, please let me know somehow and I will fight for your right with you.

I hope that this post clears any misunderstanding that may have occured. If I have somehow - unintentionally - hurt your feelings, I appologise.

As RaySun2Be wrote:

And I certainly value each and every TeAm mate, whether they produce 1 WU a day, or 1000 WUs a day.

That is the spirit of this discussion and I agree fully with RaySun2Be's statement.

 

[petrusbroder]

Originally posted by: Wolfsraider
How do we want it?

That is the right question.

I would love to see it kept: simple, fun, and friendly. Its all for the TeAm, Every individual counts... no matter where they crunch, its still all for the TeAm.

I would hate to see some of the all time great crunchers leave, simply because they made a bigger contribution.
Thank you all for the great responses, I toast all of you from the breakroom keg :beer:

I am thanking my lucky stars that I am on the right TeAm. I have only been here a few short years, but I can not think of a better place to call home.

Mike

Edit> I should have 2x the computers crunching by January if all goes well.

As far as I understand the posts in this thread that is the consensus:

I would love to see it kept: simple, fun, and friendly. Its all for the TeAm, Every individual counts... no matter where they crunch, its still all for the TeAm.

 

[Wolfsraider]

I think what steven is saying is that this affects us all. If we feel put out so strongly about this maybe we should look at the bigger picture. We all can crunch where ever we want, we choose to crunch here because we have fun, we are friends, and this is home. But something like this threatens our existance to the core. We should band together and crunch for the projects we are on, rather than fuss about the little things. Mini-teams and members who make large contributions, like it or not (not an opinion, simply a fact), make a huge impact on the sucess of the team, and can make formidable enemies.

I agree.

The loss of even one member makes all the difference.

TeAmmates helping Science to advance 1 CPU at a Time, really says a lot.

Steven, I hope you stay a teammate for a long time to come. It has been my plerasure to see the numbers you produce, knowing you are making one hell of a difference.
I wish you well in the next few weeks and hope you get well soon.

Mike

 

[Wolfsraider]

I agree Peter 🙂

 

[petrusbroder]

To propose a code of conduct in matters crunching would be preposterous and wrong, because it would violate the individual rights of the team members.

 

[mondobyte]

I am not threatening or planning to do anything precipitous.

This whole topic seemed ludicrous at best and a poor choice for comment at the least.

I will do whatever I need to do to continue to contribute. If small minds wish to impose constraints because they are unable to compete ... that is a personal problem I cannot solve other than to "move along".

That was my entire point ... I probably fumbled it but I have NO INTENTION of departing TeAm, now, or in the future ... unless the ne'er do wells triumph here too!

I am a devout capitalist and advocate of democracy, however, Mao Tse Tung said it best:
"Those who have no other choice, vote with thier feet". I would submit that politics aside, this is a great truth!

mondo

[edit]I'd like to add that those who are ahead of me I hold in great reverence! That, perhaps, I am incapable of rising to the challenge they present, is not a point of jealousy nor a matter of contention for me. Let me say that I believe I do the best I can with what I have and I am ENTIRELY pleased to be able to do that small amount of work. I sleep well at night and do not stress that I may NEVER rise about 7th in this project. I am incredibly fortunate to have made the contributions that I have in several projects. Other matters are mostly a matter of pride ... and as the bible says ... "Pride goeth before a fall". I do not take pride in what has been accomplished but I do take satisfaction that I have done as much as I can. Nothing would please me more than to have everyone on this team trump my contributions!

[/edit]

 

[BofRA]

Ok I will give an opinion on this matter. I have no problems with mini teams in general (especially since I was on one). There are times when things just work better to have one name instead of two or more. Take for instance TeAm_BnT. We combined into a mini team when Me and Tim got an opportunity to take advantage of a substantial work fleet. We were both members of the TeAm and rather than try to split up the computers decided to combine forces. We also acquired crunchers from friends and family. Unfortunately we lost our work fleet and Tim had some difficulties. So now it is back to my home fleet of around 10-11 crunchers doing most of the damage. I do have a work fleet of 10 P4's but they have no internet and it has become cumbersome to sneaker-net them so they have become hit and miss.

My point here is that there are times when a Mini-Team is more convenient than multiple users crunching the same thing. Kind of like being part of a TeAm to begin with!!!! Sometimes it is just better

 

[mondobyte]

Originally posted by: Wolfsraider
Steven, I hope you stay a teammate for a long time to come. It has been my plerasure to see the numbers you produce, knowing you are making one hell of a difference.
I wish you well in the next few weeks and hope you get well soon.

Mike

That is not what is at stake here! I do hope that I die with this group!

On another note though ... I believe that my opinion is that this topic should be a non-issue and should not trouble this august forum nor should this forum deign to take this discussion to heart as it undercuts the basic values here.

mondo

 

[mondobyte]

Let me see if I can clarify this ...

We should discuss and take a direction on issues over which this forum has control.

That which cannot be controlled must be accepted irrespective of opinion.

Kinda like the law ... you can agree or disagree with the speed limit but whether you agree with it or not ... the speeding ticket will cost you! Follow the law ... petition for it to be changed if you disagree ... but anything else ... is FUTILE and not worthy of comment.

 

[Insidious]

OK, I've got to chime in here....

I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that this topic is not worth comment. On the contrary...

No one has proposed (or expected) any actions be taken (pro or con), other than an opportunity to entertain a philosophical discussion is offered up by this thread.

I am not offended by the expression of opinions and I will not belittle them by saying they should not matter or be heard.

I do not like attempts to close this thread because an individual (or individuals) do not think it is worthy of comment.

-Sid

 

[mondobyte]

Originally posted by: Insidious
OK, I've got to chime in here....

I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that this topic is not worth comment. On the contrary...

No one has proposed (or expected) any actions be taken (pro or con), other than an opportunity to entertain a philosophical discussion is offered up by this thread.

I am not offended by the expression of opinions and I will not belittle them by saying they should not matter or be heard.

I do not like attempts to close this thread because an individual (or individuals) do not think it is worthy of comment.

-Sid

So .. shall we all follow Don Quixote and tilt at windmills ?

 

[mondobyte]

I don't think I said that it was not worthy of comment ... only that it wasn't, necessarily, worthy of comment by this August forum.

 

[Wolfsraider]

I am glad that this discussion is taking place, while I too agree that what has always been ok should remain so. It is nice to see that mini teams are supported by the majority if not more.

I know that many are seeing that this might turn into a "lets make a new policy" type thing, I don't think that is what peter is saying. Rather I think we as a team need more communication and what better way than to openly and nicely discuss things that make the TeAm a better place to be.

I know It's hard sometimes to not be overly proctective of the way things are, we all try to preserve "Our way of life" but I would much rather see folks reaching an agreement through communication, than see folks leave because they felt alone or unsupported.

We are as TeAm should hear the views of its members, we don't have to agree on all of them, but it helps to know where we are, and why.

I don't think that this discussion was meant to change things but rather open eyes to the way things are and have been. I learned a lot from this thread and am glad I read it all. There is a lot of history in here from many great memories of crunching.

I also understand some (like me) think that discussing things can lead down roads of change. I know this TeAm has the community I love, its fun, its fresh (most times lol) and more importantly ...the greatest folks from all walks of life share their thoughts and ideas here. We all come from varied backgrounds, countries and ways of life. Yet we are all here crunching for the greater good, science, the team, the community, and our fellow TeAmmates.


Please never let that change 🙂

 

[Insidious]

Mondo,

I admit I have no idea what an August forum is....

Further, will tilt at whatever windmills happen my way if it is a tilting it needs.
You can ignore me, or you can join in, you can even paint a sign if you like,

but I thank Peter for his effort and I enjoyed hearing what my team mates felt about mini-teams.

If you run upon another posting unworthy of YOUR comment, please feel free to pass on by.

-Sid

 

[petrusbroder]

Just to confirm what Wolfsraider said so well:

There never was and there is no intention "to make new policy".
IMHO, this team is the best. There is no need to change a winning team.

I agree with Wolfsraiders post, especially with the following sentences:

... the greatest folks from all walks of life share their thoughts and ideas here. We all come from varied backgrounds, countries and ways of life. Yet we are all here crunching for the greater good, science, the team, the community, and our fellow TeAmmates.

Please never let that change 🙂

Hear! Hear! 😀

 

[CheesePoofs]

I think it would have been better if this thread never became necessary, but mini-teams became and issue to some people, and therefore it was necessary to have this thread so that we could see if most people supported the anti-miniteam movement or if that was just a very small group that happened to be the only group voicing its opinions. In other words ... we needed this thread to prove that the vast majority of the team is in support of miniteams.

 

[Wiz]

Let me revise my statement just a bit:

IMHO whether you are for mini's or agin em, whether you like everyone of your mate's here or hate em, whether you think this thread is cool or you think it's a dorky waste of time...

we are all TeAm mates and we are all welcome to think & feel & crunch whatever we like in whatever way we like & say whatever we want about it anywhere anytime, if we don't like it we are free to post or not post anything we want about it, if we do like it we are also just as free, and if we don't care one way or the other... I guess it's time to get a beer :beer: or two :beer: :beer:

If you think of it this way it might help a bit:

Take for example seti classic.

WorldWide Seti Classic:
5,436,301 total members
(Consider this the whole team)

TeAm AnandTech seti classic:
3,396 members
(Consider this a miniteam, as it is a subset of the total)
289 active members
(Consider this a miniteam within the miniteam that is TA seti)
## active members in mini team xx
## active members in mini team yy
## active members in mini team zz

As you can see everything is just a subset of the larger group.
Everybody is important down to the member who did one WU and that was it.
Any member who adds anything is important in the grand scheme.

 

[Wolfsraider]

Originally posted by: Wiz
Let me revise my statement just a bit:

IMHO whether you are for mini's or agin em, whether you like everyone of your mate's here or hate em, whether you think this thread is cool or you think it's a dorky waste of time...

we are all TeAm mates and we are all welcome to think & feel & crunch whatever we like in whatever way we like & say whatever we want about it anywhere anytime, if we don't like it we are free to post or not post anything we want about it, if we do like it we are also just as free, and if we don't care one way or the other... I guess it's time to get a beer :beer: or two :beer: :beer:

If you think of it this way it might help a bit:

Take for example seti classic.

WorldWide Seti Classic:
5,436,301 total members
(Consider this the whole team)

TeAm AnandTech seti classic:
3,396 members
(Consider this a miniteam, as it is a subset of the total)
289 active members
(Consider this a miniteam within the miniteam that is TA seti)
## active members in mini team xx
## active members in mini team yy
## active members in mini team zz

As you can see everything is just a subset of the larger group.
Everybody is important down to the member who did one WU and that was it.
Any member who adds anything is important in the grand scheme.

Nice way to see it Wiz 😛

 

[mondobyte]

Originally posted by: Insidious
Mondo,

I admit I have no idea what an August forum is....

Further, will tilt at whatever windmills happen my way if it is a tilting it needs.
You can ignore me, or you can join in, you can even paint a sign if you like,

but I thank Peter for his effort and I enjoyed hearing what my team mates felt about mini-teams.

If you run upon another posting unworthy of YOUR comment, please feel free to pass on by.

-Sid

Comment or complain about the weather all you want to ... but until you can provide a constructive way to change the weather, you are basically only tilting at windmills and the effort is, basically, worthless.

Please note that the current state of the weather is immaterial to this discussion!

 

[Assimilator1]

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs
I think it would have been better if this thread never became necessary, but mini-teams became and issue to some people, and therefore it was necessary to have this thread so that we could see if most people supported the anti-miniteam movement or if that was just a very small group that happened to be the only group voicing its opinions. In other words ... we needed this thread to prove that the vast majority of the team is in support of miniteams.

Hear! Hear! I totally agree ,I'd heard that a few people had given some mini team members a hard time because of their great output (how daft is that?!) ,I think this thread is a good idea as it shows the support towards mini teams (just as I thought it would😉).

Mondobyte
I must admit you've left me somewhat baffled ,your giving the impression that this thread is anti mini teams ,yet it is the opposite ,also no rules were ever intended to be setup for mini teams.(which as you said would be unworkable for those few who did like that idea anyway)
Maybe you got hold of the wrong end of the stick & a reread of this thread might help 🙂
Btw I'm not being snidey I just genuinely think you've misunderstood the purpose of this thread.
Or have I misunderstood you & your 1st post was actually directed to those who don't like mini teams?

Oh & what's an august forum?😱 🙂

 

[Smoke]

August (noun)

8th month of the year

_____________________________________________

august (adjective)

1. Inspiring awe or admiration; majestic: the august presence of the monarch.
2. Venerable for reasons of age or high rank.

The term "august body" has become a cliche that politicians overuse as they make their loquacious speeches.

:shocked: