midrange htpc card: gtx 960 or wait for r9 370?

[preslove]

I rebuilt my htpc with an i3 4150 in a mini itx corsair 250 case. I've been using the igp alone for now with indie games, but want to upgrade to a midrange video card to play current/future games. The gtx 960 looks good because of the low power use, low noise (fan turning off when not needed is a huge plus). Also, $200 is a good price for me and i wouldnt need to upgrade my corsair 430w ps. Cons are that it's 2 gigs and not the best performance.

I'm not in too much of a hurry, so I'm interested in amd's upcoming midrange entry. Its going to be the r9 370, right? Any thoughts on when its coming out, price, specs ?

 

[raghu78]

the R9 370 / 370x looks to launch in early April. you can expect both 2GB and 4GB versions at launch. Its better to wait it out and look at perf and pricing of these cards and then buy. :thumbsup:

http://videocardz.com/55051/xfx-radeon-r9-370-core-edition-leaks-out-coming-early-april

 

[96Firebird]

I'd say wait, but if you want the card now and your concern is the VRAM on the 960, there is a 4GB model out there by EVGA for $240. More are expected this month, if you'd prefer options.

 

[rolodomo]

I'd say wait, but if you want the card now and your concern is the VRAM on the 960, there is a 4GB model out there by EVGA for $240. More are expected this month, if you'd prefer options.

Yep, I just ordered one of those because I need it now. I also need low heat and noise for a mini-ITX build, but darn, I feel ripped buying it for $240. Definitely wait if you can.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Unless someone got the price, performance and wattage of a 370 its a question that will be unanswered.

 

[RussianSensation]

If you only play indie titles, what's wrong with the GTX750/750Ti? Alternatively, if you are not in a rush, might as well wait since GPUs continue to get faster/cheaper with time. Right now 960 is grossly overpriced but then again I don't see why you need a $200 card for indie titles? If you want hardware H.265 decoding/encoding, maybe wait for lower end R9 300 cards that might have this option at $99-129.

 

[BSim500]

Cons are that it's 2 gigs and not the best performance.

There are 4GB 960's coming out:-
http://techreport.com/news/27948/4gb-gtx-960s-are-coming-from-asus-evga-gigabyte-and-msi

As for the R9 370, no-one knows what the perf or per-per-watt is yet. Only way of knowing is to wait for reviews as rumors are pretty worthless. So far all I've learned from the usual rumor-peddling sites is that the low-end 300 series are both brand new cards and rebadges. They have both better & the same perf-per-watt, they're going to be both expensive & cheap, etc.

As RussianSensation said, I'm not sure you'd need 4GB VRAM though for Indie games matched with an i3 (especially considering you've been running them on an iGPU). Hell Skyrim at 1080p, on Ultra, with multiple 2K texture packs, ELFX + PureWeather, etc, mods with either SMAA or FXAA (but no MSAA) runs a consistent 60fps even on a 750Ti and rarely exceeds 1.5GB VRAM, and most Indie titles are a lot "lighter weight" than that. Bioshock Infinite is 60fps on Very High, etc. Even those horrendously optimized Unity Engine Indie first-person games (Gone Home, RealMyst, etc) that run 3x slower than they should given 2005-2010 UE2 era equivalent "eye-candy", can still get near 60fps on a 750Ti with a bit of tweaking.

 

[preslove]

I wouldn't buy a card for indie titles. I'm wanting one to play modern console ports, elite dangerous, and maybe star citizen when it finally comes out. Though, I might make a new machine for SC.

I'm more looking for rumors/leaks on the 370.

 

[Leyawiin]

Right now 960 is grossly overpriced...

If its grossly overpriced so are the R9 280, R9 285 and R9 280X. They're all within 10% + or - in performance and all within $180-$280. Given it matches the R9 285 for the same price (or less), beats the R9 280 (for $20 more) and is 10% slower than the R9 280X for at least $40 less competition-wise its sitting pretty much where it should be. And yes, I know you'll trot out MIRs in the form of "rebate cards" to make your case. Rebate cards that you might get (if you do everything right and the rebate gods smile upon you) 8-12 weeks down the road. Those don't help pay for the GPU you just put on your credit card today. They're a nice bonus - kind of like free games.

That said, I'd wait until April if I didn't have to rush. No sense in buying this close to the R9 370 release - choices are always nice to have and it may be better than all of them.

 

[RussianSensation]

If its grossly overpriced so are the R9 280, R9 285 and R9 280X. They're all within 10% + or - in performance and all within $180-$280.

Wow, so many errors in your post.

1) Your performance data is outdated, not sure where you got it from.

280X is nearly 20-21% faster at 1080P and that lead grows to 30% at 1440p. While 280X isn't good enough for 1440p, it shows us that as games become more demanding, 280X's lead will only grow. Furthermore, while an after-market 280X can be had for $190-200, it'll cost $240 or so for a 960 4GB. So essentially you would pay MORE and get way less performance. :thumbsdown:

2) Anyone who is looking to pay $250+ for a card is not going to buy a 285/280X because at that point you can purchase an after-market R9 290.

Sapphire Tri-X R9 290 $240 USD on Newegg.
Asus DirectCUII R9 290 $260 USD

An after-market R9 290 is as fast as a 290X Uber mode which means 50-75% more performance than a 960. So, no, your statement that within $180-280 range all AMD/NV GPUs perform within +/- 10% is way off.

Also, you are blatantly ignoring that $200 960's come with 2GB of VRAM making them already obsolete for modern 3D games, while 4GB versions cost nearly as much as after-market 290s but you don't even mention a 290 in your post.

--

Anyway, there is no justification for a 960 for indie titles when a $100-110 750Ti is as good.

 

[preslove]

Anyway, there is no justification for a 960 for indie titles when a $100-110 750Ti is as good.

I never said I wanted a card for indie titles. I'm not sure where you got that

 

[96Firebird]

Sapphire Tri-X R9 290 $240 USD on Newegg.

Please check all aspects when you suggest a card (was this even a suggestion?). His case can only fit cards up to 290mm long (~11.4in). The ASUS should fit, however.

 

[xpea]

for an htpc build, GTX960 is the best choice NOW. Its the only card that can play 4k H265 content, even on a slow CPU, thanks to the full VP9/H265 acceleration hardware. Rumored next AMD stuff is that, rumor, without knowing if it will be rebadge or brand new stuff, if it will have H265 hdw or not, etc...

 

[RussianSensation]

I never said I wanted a card for indie titles. I'm not sure where you got that

Sorry, I read your original post too quickly.

I've been using the igp alone for now with indie games, but want to upgrade to a midrange video card to play current/future games.

Well, in that case, get a 960 unless you can save up for a $310 970.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I like RussianSensation's suggestion: either nab the 960 now or, if you can afford it, get the 970.

 

[swilli89]

Get an r290

 

[preslove]

In wary of the 970 because I don't wasn't a loud and power hungry card because this is my living room PC, which is on whenever I'm home and drives all my entertainment. I'm interested in the 370 because one of the rumors I've seen is that it will be power efficient and therefore quiet.

 

[metalliax]

In wary of the 970 because I don't wasn't a loud and power hungry card because this is my living room PC, which is on whenever I'm home and drives all my entertainment. I'm interested in the 370 because one of the rumors I've seen is that it will be power efficient and therefore quiet.

If you can wait 4-6 weeks, it wouldn't be a bad idea to see what drops, instead of having that sinking feeling when something newer and shinier comes out and settled for something else.

 

[DownTheSky]

Wait for 370. It might be a drag to wait 1 month for it but you'll be kicking yourself in the foot a long time after if you don't.

 

[RussianSensation]

In wary of the 970 because I don't wasn't a loud and power hungry card because this is my living room PC, which is on whenever I'm home and drives all my entertainment. I'm interested in the 370 because one of the rumors I've seen is that it will be power efficient and therefore quiet.

There are uber quiet 970s like MSI Gaming and Asus Strix. Up to 60-65C they don't even turn the fans on.

 

[kawi6rr]

I would get the r9 290

 

[poofyhairguy]

An after-market R9 290 is as fast as a 290X Uber mode which means 50-75% more performance than a 960.

Yeah, but the power use and noise of the 290 at load to get there is off the 960's chart. If you are dealing with a smaller form factor, or a more quiet rig for a livingroom, the 290 is kinda a non-starter even if it does give Titan-ish levels of performance for cheap. Power use really isn't the problem, its noise. Aftermarket cooling can't make a 290 as quiet as a 960.

I honestly think right now is a bad time to be buying GPUs in this gaming HTPC space. We are on the cusp of really needing full HEVC decode for HTPC use, and the only card that gives us that and decent noise levels/power consumption is limited by a slow memory bus and 2GB of RAM at the normal price. If AMD next gen can deliver R9 290 levels of power with HEVC full decode and better power consumption for $200-ish dollars we would have a clear winner in the space. Right now it is as if Nvidia isn't even really trying due to a lack of direct competition, and that is sad.

I am with OP, I wish there was a single mid-range card you could stick in a gaming HTPC and feel that the upgrade will carry you through a few years of PS4/XB1 ports at 1080p. I mean, we have had CPUs for years that are good enough to match these consoles (even taking into account more inefficient ports). But we don't really have a midrange card that has enough VRAM, or enough raw power, to blow through a crappily done port like a Sleeping Dogs even if we are way past the PS4's 7850-level GPU. You have to figure that Sony's to-the-metal API gives them a significant boost on the same silicon, so if you want a card that will match the graphics of the PS4 through its life the GTX 960 maybe isn't enough. The VRAM at 2GB certainly isn't enough.

I am hoping that by later this year such a card will exist. The high end of this hobby is ready to move onto 4k, but I feel 1080p still isn't settled at the price points most gamers buy at.

 

[shady28]

I rebuilt my htpc with an i3 4150 in a mini itx corsair 250 case. I've been using the igp alone for now with indie games, but want to upgrade to a midrange video card to play current/future games. The gtx 960 looks good because of the low power use, low noise (fan turning off when not needed is a huge plus). Also, $200 is a good price for me and i wouldnt need to upgrade my corsair 430w ps. Cons are that it's 2 gigs and not the best performance.

I'm not in too much of a hurry, so I'm interested in amd's upcoming midrange entry. Its going to be the r9 370, right? Any thoughts on when its coming out, price, specs ?

Well as others are saying, the GTX 960 is here now and fits the bill for what you need, while the R9 370 has a bunch of rumors and unofficial benchmarks surrounding it.

If the more optimistic unofficial benchmarks and power usage data that are circulating are correct (a *big* if) it will spank the 960 in performance and be about equal in power use at the same price point. This (if true) would also mean the 960 will probably fall in price once the R9 370 is available.

Personally I would wait until mid-April and re-evaluate based on the information available at that time. If there is nothing more solid by then I would disregard the rumor mill and go with what is available.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

"A developer can strategically announce a product that is in the early stages of development, or before development begins, to gain competitive advantage over other developers.[25] In addition to the "vaporware" label, this is also called "ambush marketing", and "fear, uncertainty and doubt" (FUD) by the press.[23]

 

[Techhog]

Yeah, but the power use and noise of the 290 at load to get there is off the 960's chart. If you are dealing with a smaller form factor, or a more quiet rig for a livingroom, the 290 is kinda a non-starter even if it does give Titan-ish levels of performance for cheap. Power use really isn't the problem, its noise. Aftermarket cooling can't make a 290 as quiet as a 960.

I honestly think right now is a bad time to be buying GPUs in this gaming HTPC space. We are on the cusp of really needing full HEVC decode for HTPC use, and the only card that gives us that and decent noise levels/power consumption is limited by a slow memory bus and 2GB of RAM at the normal price. If AMD next gen can deliver R9 290 levels of power with HEVC full decode and better power consumption for $200-ish dollars we would have a clear winner in the space. Right now it is as if Nvidia isn't even really trying due to a lack of direct competition, and that is sad.

I am with OP, I wish there was a single mid-range card you could stick in a gaming HTPC and feel that the upgrade will carry you through a few years of PS4/XB1 ports at 1080p. I mean, we have had CPUs for years that are good enough to match these consoles (even taking into account more inefficient ports). But we don't really have a midrange card that has enough VRAM, or enough raw power, to blow through a crappily done port like a Sleeping Dogs even if we are way past the PS4's 7850-level GPU. You have to figure that Sony's to-the-metal API gives them a significant boost on the same silicon, so if you want a card that will match the graphics of the PS4 through its life the GTX 960 maybe isn't enough. The VRAM at 2GB certainly isn't enough.

I am hoping that by later this year such a card will exist. The high end of this hobby is ready to move onto 4k, but I feel 1080p still isn't settled at the price points most gamers buy at.

Noise is only an issue on reference cards and maybe some poorly-designed aftermarket versions (which can and does happen with any GPU).

 

[poofyhairguy]

Noise is only an issue on reference cards and maybe some poorly-designed aftermarket versions (which can and does happen with any GPU).

Sure the aftermarket coolers help, because the reference cooler is ridiculous. Still isn't going to be as quiet as the 960 though which also can get aftermarket coolers. Plus the GPU cooler is just part of the battle. If the GPU is putting more heat overall into your case you have to crank up the case fans to compensate. In a hptc setting power savings get to almost double dip on the noise benefits, and there is a huge power usage gap between the 290 and the 960. Finally some of those coolers on the 290 (or the 290s themselves) can be huge and have problems fitting into HTPC-level cases. Once you hand pick a 290 based on the cooler and size you lose a lot of the relative value because you are paying full price instead of whatever is the current 290 deal.

Plus I was wrong about power consumption, it does matter for idle consumption. With a HTPC that is spending most of its time playing video or doing nothing having the lowest idle power consumption matters. From what I understand the 290 or any card based on that architecture have high idle power usage compared to current Nvidia cards overall. I could be wrong though.

I mean I agree with your overall concept that in the general gaming market the existence of the 290 proves that the 960 is a poor value for gaming. The 290 blows away the GTX 960, heck getting a used 7960 is a better value. But the HTPC gaming market is different, the priorities are different. Performance for dollar isn't the only metric.

That full HEVC decoder is huge, worth at least a $50 difference alone IMHO, while on the gaming side it has no value. Plus anything that can reduce the power usage is a huge win, it isn't like on the hardcore gaming side where power consumption can almost feel like a hypocritical talking point. We HTPC gamers weren't the ones bragging about that GTX 460 and its hogish ways, I was trying to play games on a fanless GT 450 lol. The HTPC market has always valued power consumption to have less noise, even before Nvidia made it a talking point.

As I said, it is slim pickings right now for the HTPC gamer when it should be glory days thanks to that stupid 2GB stock GTX 960 configuration. Honestly the new 4GB ASUS Strix GeForce GTX 960 is pretty much the perfect gaming HTPC card if it delivers for that reason. We get a cooler that is silent at idle, the HEVC decoding that should keep the HTPC futureproof into the 4K Blu Ray age, and the 4G of RAM needed for console ports and games a few years out. That is the card I am keeping an eye on, if it is really $210 then unless AMD just blows it out on value and power-usage in April I might get one.