Microwave vs stove - Heating water

[IronWing]

purified water + microwave = good, hot, scolding water

God, you just can't anything right! You just plain lazy. You should try harder, apply yourself, and do these things you do so poorly better.

 

[DrPizza]

Hes a successful physics and calculus teacher with multiple degrees and you're the king of the shit head 17 year olds taking high school classes

That's your answer

Did my fix make it more accurate?

 

[gaidensensei]

Did my fix make it more accurate?

A little, but I don't think fleabag is in high school unless he's repeating senior year for the nth time. The reason I imply this is because most high schoolers aren't interested in cost-efficiency ratios.

So, he's got to be a bit older than that. D:
I'd believe 26 year old and senior year though.

 

[fleabag]

A little, but I don't think fleabag is in high school unless he's repeating senior year for the nth time. The reason I imply this is because most high schoolers aren't interested in cost-efficiency ratios.

So, he's got to be a bit older than that. D:
I'd believe 26 year old and senior year though.

That doesn't make any sense.. If a person is older but has the mindset of a highschooler, then for all intents and purposes, he is a highschooler. A 40 year old that behaves like a 12 year old is really just a 12 year old. The body may say he is 40 but he very well could be limited to the capacity of a 12 year old. If you're going to insult me, do it right because you're contradicting your self right there with your bolded statement.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

That doesn't make any sense.. If a person is older but has the mindset of a highschooler, then for all intents and purposes, he is a highschooler. A 40 year old that behaves like a 12 year old is really just a 12 year old. The body may say he is 40 but he very well could be limited to the capacity of a 12 year old. If you're going to insult me, do it right because you're contradicting your self right there with your bolded statement.

Pot...meet kettle

 

[PottedMeat]

Who the hell do you think you are? Who are you to say what I know and don't know? I never made such an argument as to say that heat engines don't benefit from a large temperature differential which is the whole basis of the carnot cycle, rankine cycle, etc. etc. Obviously engines don't run very hot because of the temperature limits of components AND because of another factor...NOX. Nitrogen and other molecules gets a little squirrelly at high temperatures and the molecules that are in the air at those high temperatures (1500F+) start to separate and bond with each other, forming new molecules. Consequently, combustion temperatures have to be kept under control in order to prevent this unless they decide to treat the exhaust with urea like in the newer diesel powered cars.

shouldn't this be in the garage? :awe:

 

[Eli]

:awe: You must be one of those kids who grew up on drinking anti-freeze.


That's what one would expect if looking at it hypothetically but that doesn't always happen. Want to see it happen before your eyes? Hookup a scangauge to your car and monitor the coolant temp. You can actually see by looking at the temperature numbers when the thermostat opens and closes. What I'm trying to say is, which contradicts what you're saying, is that at a constant load, the engine does not maintain a single temperature, but a temperature range. It does this because it is inherent in its design. Of course, it doesn't do this all the time because heat rejection is dependent on the load of the engine and the ambient temperature. The heat load and the ambient temperature would have to be significantly higher than what I've described before the thermostat could stay partially open all the time. I'm not saying what you've described isn't possible, but it's definitely not going to happen to an idling engine.

Who said anything about idling? My thought was cruising down the highway.

We are indeed making blanket statements. All of this depends entirely on the coolant system's design. The more inadequate the radiator's cooling capacity, the farther the thermostat would be open given X load.

Obviously idle represents the lowest cooling system load, so it makes sense that the thermostat could have defined opened and closed cycles. Though I would bet that in a properly designed system, it is just barely open - to maintain the proper temperature. In general, while idling, you aren't moving. What you're probably seeing on the scangauge is the radiator fan coming on, not the thermostat opening per say.

My main point was that the thermostat is a simple device. It isn't electronically controlled. It doesn't snap open at X, and snap shut at X temperature. It begins to open at X temperature, and is fully open at X temperature.

I will contend that there is very little temperature swing on a moderately loaded engine. The system will reach an equilibrium where the thermostat is only partially open. The radiator's cooling capacity would determine where this point is.

As far as the whole drinking antifreeze thing, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Tapping the heater hoses is the traditional method of using the car's existing system to heat or cool something. The coolant would simply flow through the secondary heat exchanger. There would be no contamination of whatever you were trying to heat or cool.

 

[gaidensensei]

That doesn't make any sense.. If a person is older but has the mindset of a highschooler, then for all intents and purposes, he is a highschooler. A 40 year old that behaves like a 12 year old is really just a 12 year old. The body may say he is 40 but he very well could be limited to the capacity of a 12 year old. If you're going to insult me, do it right because you're contradicting your self right there with your bolded statement.

Why not?
The intent of the definition was to say an older person who is taking courses directed for 17 year olds. In the case of a 26 year old taking courses 9 years behind, the detail is important because it's not the same.

A 40 year old woman chasing younger kids is called a cougar, not a chick.
A 40 year old man who wants relationships with a 12 year old is not called a 12 year old nor should be labeled as one. He's called a pedophile.

 

[fleabag]

Who said anything about idling? My thought was cruising down the highway.

Why and how would you be cooking food while driving down the highway?

We are indeed making blanket statements. All of this depends entirely on the coolant system's design. The more inadequate the radiator's cooling capacity, the farther the thermostat would be open given X load.

Obviously idle represents the lowest cooling system load, so it makes sense that the thermostat could have defined opened and closed cycles. Though I would bet that in a properly designed system, it is just barely open - to maintain the proper temperature. In general, while idling, you aren't moving. What you're probably seeing on the scangauge is the radiator fan coming on, not the thermostat opening per say.

Definitely not the radiator fan because the radiator fan comes on maybe 10 degrees past the thermostat's threshold of opening. So if the thermostat opens at 190F, the radiator fan will come on at no less than 200F. So if the coolant temperature never gets that high, then therefore the radiator fan will never come on.

My main point was that the thermostat is a simple device. It isn't electronically controlled. It doesn't snap open at X, and snap shut at X temperature. It begins to open at X temperature, and is fully open at X temperature.

I will contend that there is very little temperature swing on a moderately loaded engine. The system will reach an equilibrium where the thermostat is only partially open. The radiator's cooling capacity would determine where this point is.

As far as the whole drinking antifreeze thing, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Tapping the heater hoses is the traditional method of using the car's existing system to heat or cool something. The coolant would simply flow through the secondary heat exchanger. There would be no contamination of whatever you were trying to heat or cool.

Alright well I meant that second heat exchanger would be the "pot" meeting the heater core. The transfer of heat from the heater core to the pot, is only air. The only other way to directly heat the water is to run it through the car's cooling system which is where the whole coolant thing comes into play.

This whole discussion got started off the premise of using the car's cooling system to cook food and I said it wasn't really feasible to do that for various reasons.

 

[Bignate603]

That's what one would expect if looking at it hypothetically but that doesn't always happen. Want to see it happen before your eyes? Hookup a scangauge to your car and monitor the coolant temp. You can actually see by looking at the temperature numbers when the thermostat opens and closes. What I'm trying to say is, which contradicts what you're saying, is that at a constant load, the engine does not maintain a single temperature, but a temperature range. It does this because it is inherent in its design. Of course, it doesn't do this all the time because heat rejection is dependent on the load of the engine and the ambient temperature. The heat load and the ambient temperature would have to be significantly higher than what I've described before the thermostat could stay partially open all the time. I'm not saying what you've described isn't possible, but it's definitely not going to happen to an idling engine.

Temperature moving back and forth somewhat is not showing that the thermostat is fully open or shut. Here's why...

1. Electric fan. This cycling on and off can cause some fluctuation in the coolant temperature
2. The thermostat may operate more open at some times than others and may even oscillate slightly. A small change in the degree of openness of the thermostat can have This doesn't mean it fully opens or closes.
3. You may think you're doing a constant load on the engine but unless you're driving in Kansas that's almost impossible. Going up and down hills or around turns changes engine load more than most people realize.

Fleabag has turned this into a full blown fleabag thread. This is the exact stuff that got him banned from the garage.

 

[fleabag]

Why not?
The intent of the definition was to say an older person who is taking courses directed for 17 year olds. In the case of a 26 year old taking courses 9 years behind, the detail is important because it's not the same.

A 40 year old woman chasing younger kids is called a cougar, not a chick.
A 40 year old man who wants relationships with a 12 year old is not called a 12 year old nor should be labeled as one. He's called a pedophile.

You're probably the same idiots who think Michael Jackson was a pedophile and not just a 50 year old man who wanted to be a child.

 

[SooperDave]

Exactly how many and what makes and models have you tested with a scanner to come up with your conclusion? I have checked the idling temps. of around 40 vehicles over the years that had come in to the shop with high temp. issues. Part of the diagnostic procedure is to slip a thermocoupler under the upper radiator hose. I have seen some fluxuations up to 5 dergrees but never anything to indicate a thermostat fully closing. So, how many and what kinds of vehicles are you basing your statemnet on?

 

[fleabag]

Exactly how many and what makes and models have you tested with a scanner to come up with your conclusion? I have checked the idling temps. of around 40 vehicles over the years that had come in to the shop with high temp. issues. Part of the diagnostic procedure is to slip a thermocoupler under the upper radiator hose. I have seen some fluxuations up to 5 dergrees but never anything to indicate a thermostat fully closing. So, how many and what kinds of vehicles are you basing your statemnet on?

I'm basing my statement on vehicles that are working properly... lulz

 

[SooperDave]

Afraid to answer the question because it wil show how little experience you have and that you are talking out your ass again. Answer the question coward.

 

[fleabag]

Afraid to answer the question because it wil show how little experiance you have and that you are talking out your ass again. Answer the question coward.

 

[Eli]

Why and how would you be cooking food while driving down the highway?

Definitely not the radiator fan because the radiator fan comes on maybe 10 degrees past the thermostat's threshold of opening. So if the thermostat opens at 190F, the radiator fan will come on at no less than 200F. So if the coolant temperature never gets that high, then therefore the radiator fan will never come on.


Alright well I meant that second heat exchanger would be the "pot" meeting the heater core. The transfer of heat from the heater core to the pot, is only air. The only other way to directly heat the water is to run it through the car's cooling system which is where the whole coolant thing comes into play.

This whole discussion got started off the premise of using the car's cooling system to cook food and I said it wasn't really feasible to do that for various reasons.

Not feasible eh? You think? Nobody ever said it had much practicality. They were simply thinking of ways to increase the efficiency of the ICE. IE: use the wasted heat to do something else. In this case, cook food - or heat water.

I think you've totally failed at getting this, based on your first statement. Driving down the highway is when you would cook food using your engine. Throw a roast on the manifold, and it's done when you get to your destination in ~3 hours.

Wanna talk about inefficient? Try to cook something with an idling engine. Then you're doing nothing other than cooking food. That would just be a silly waste of fuel.

The traditional methods of cooking using an engine don't have anything to do with the engine's coolant though.

 

[alkemyst]

debates like these on a Saturday night are why I am heading out to my local ale house.

This has been done for a long time. I used to have a book on it that was made around 1940-50 that got lost when a hurricane wiped out my garage with flooding.

Here is a more recent one.
http://www.amazon.com/Manifold-Desti...der_0375751408

 

[Bignate603]

Not feasible eh? You think? Nobody ever said it had much practicality. They were simply thinking of ways to increase the efficiency of the ICE. IE: use the wasted heat to do something else. In this case, cook food - or heat water.

I think you've totally failed at getting this, based on your first statement. Driving down the highway is when you would cook food using your engine. Throw a roast on the manifold, and it's done when you get to your destination in ~3 hours.

Wanna talk about inefficient? Try to cook something with an idling engine. Then you're doing nothing other than cooking food. That would just be a silly waste of fuel.

The traditional methods of cooking using an engine don't have anything to do with the engine's coolant though.

I bet a tin foil dinner would turn out quite well. I'll need to see if there is anywhere I can stick it under the hood of my cherokee.

 

[Born2bwire]

Hes a successful physics teacher with a degree and you're a random shit head 15 year old taking CC classes

That's your answer

Wrong.

There, is that more accurate?

 

[fleabag]

There, is that more accurate?

Wrong

 

[Meghan54]

WTF....did he really claim tires can take 800 psi?

Yes, he did....and I'd like to see how he pumped that tire to 800 psi or ever came to that stupid conclusion.

Each and every quote you saw was an actual fleabag quote. Amazing, isn't it, that stupid flows so easily from some people.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Who the hell do you think you are? Who are you to say what I know and don't know? I never made such an argument as to say that heat engines don't benefit from a large temperature differential which is the whole basis of the carnot cycle, rankine cycle, etc. etc. Obviously engines don't run very hot because of the temperature limits of components AND because of another factor...NOX. Nitrogen and other molecules gets a little squirrelly at high temperatures and the molecules that are in the air at those high temperatures (1500F+) start to separate and bond with each other, forming new molecules. Consequently, combustion temperatures have to be kept under control in order to prevent this unless they decide to treat the exhaust with urea like in the newer diesel powered cars.

If you could stick to failing at one subject per thread, that would be fantastic. So in this one, just fail at engineering, and if you want to fail at chemistry, start a new one.

Thanks.

 

[fleabag]

Yes, he did....and I'd like to see how he pumped that tire to 800 psi or ever came to that stupid conclusion.

Each and every quote you saw was an actual fleabag quote. Amazing, isn't it, that stupid flows so easily from some people.

I read that 600-800psi quote from some grad student's abstract at some university. What, if I had forwarded the article to you, you'd kindly shut the fuck up you fucking retard? Same goes for the 1 wheel drive vehicles you artard.

 

[F1N3ST]

Are you dumb?

Resistive heating is 100% efficient, and most of it ends up in the water. There will be a small loss in the wiring, and some heat leaking from the pot, but the vast majority will be in the water. It's like taking a pot and sticking the stove burner inside it.

lower voltage? I don't see the relevance. I2R losses in the wiring are damn near zero (which is why the cord doesn't melt).

Lol, 100% efficiency, tsk tsk.

 

[Born2bwire]

Wrong

Hes a successful physics teacher with a degree and you're a random shit head 14 year old taking CC classes

That's your answer

Wrong.

Ok then.

It would be easier if you could help us narrow it down you know...

Lol, 100% efficiency, tsk tsk.

Well, technically some heating elements get hot enough to glow thereby wasting energy in the visible light range. Seeing as visible light is not readily absorbed by the water, I'd say that makes it 99% efficient or so.