Microsoft XP.... I think its time to start looking towards Linux...

[Diesel21]

I tried Mandrake 7.2, wanted to jump on the linux wagon. The installation was smooth, and I was up and running in no time.

Installed Quake3, Mozilla 0.8 and I was just rolling.

There was a few things in Linux that made me go back to Win2K

1. Love IE5, hate Mozilla/Netscape, I just hate opening an application when I want to surf, its so nice to browse the internet and your files on your HD in the same window!

2. Linux was by no means quicker that Win2K! Trust me on this one, applications did not load faster and my fps in Quake3 did not raise. Overall it feelt slower and did more work on the HD than Win2k does (512mb ram, and yes they were all found by mandrake)

3. Stability, my windows2K almost never crash, as long as I can run my OS for at least 18 hours straight, by that time I am gonna turn it off because I am going to bed. Once I had Windows 2000 up and running for 8 days straight just to prove a point to some Linux geeks, after 8 days I had to turn it off, my computer makes so much noise, really irritating when you are trying to sleep.


As to the GUI in windows XP, I have actually Windows XP beta2 on my server. The standard GUI looks a little bloated, but by clicking two places you are back to Windows classic GUI. I think the Windows GUI just plainly rocks!

Please don't start a flamewar, I am just expressing my thoughts and experience.

Frank

 

[MGMorden]

I'd definately change that "They would be squished like a bug" to "They could be squished like a bug". Apple has brand name recognition, and they brand name is often assosiated with being easy to use. Many people would be willing to buy a machine w/ MacOS on it b/c they've heard of it. Linux on ther other, though being a superior product (IMO), if seen on a spec sheet for a computer in a store would probably be thought of as some no-name MS ripoff by your average nitwit. Thankfully though the word is spreading, and Linux getting better and better everyday (I still gotta try Eazel. Out yesterday ). As time progresses people will realize "Why bother with Microsoft when I can get Linux for free and not have to worry about all this subscription/registration crap?". As more people move over to linux hardware support will increase, and then app support. Pretty soon (we're talking a few years down the road here) MS will start having financial trouble. The course I see personally is that EVENTUALLY (not immediately) Linux will become the dominant OS, and MS will simply port Office/IE over to it. They've already announced development of .NET for Linux. I mean the hardest part of Linux is the install, but that's getting better, and actually many, many people couldn't reinstall windows on their home machine either. They take it to a repair shop and plunk down $40 for a reinstall (I know people that have done this).

 

[PCResources]

<< Please don't start a flamewar, I am just expressing my thoughts and experience. >>



I won't, but you had a good experience with your Mandrake linux sessions, now, if you were to optimize that dist for your needs, you might get a lot more performance out of it...

And what did you pay for your dist, was it cheaper than your W2K?

If you take the time to optimize your linux dist you can gain as much as 65% in pure HDD performance and as much as 25% in video performance...

Once the companies that have stated that they will produce specific drivers for Linux will do so, then Linux will definently cruch every advantage W2K has going for it...

Plus, there are free SQL servers, free mail servers, free web servers (and not like the PWS that Microsoft delivers) free office applications, free graphic programs (even the GIMP is free, even though it can do almost everything PS can do, and there are plenty of plugins for it) and lots of other free software for it... If you want to synchronize your palm, just do it in staroffice...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[PCResources]

<< Apple has brand name recognition >>



Which is not highly regarded as a quality mark among most PC users...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[CQuinn]

<< The linux core is very small, small enough to be handled by one person alone regarding updates, Linus... >>



I'm sure the half-dozen other people who have been directly involved in
code fixes and new features of the 2.4 kernel in the past two years would
be surprised to find that Linus could have done it all himself.

While the Linux core can be made small (by recompiling out a lot of the
default features), it can also be made into quite a behemoth of its own



<< You can take the actual core, which you will always need, and around it you gather your favorite programs, there, you have your own personal OS, completely compatiable with every one elses personal linux os... >>



And which flavor of everyones else's linux would that be? Debian? Slackware? Redhat?
Suse? Each approaches usuabilty in different (and sometimes incompatible) ways.
And the latest versions of a few have quite deliberately broken not only with standards
used by the others, but with thier own internal designs, making newer versions actually
break essential features that were supported in older versions.

And the average user still doesn't care about any of that... The most important criteria
for them is that they can do all those neat things people buy computers for, without
having to jump thru hoops to make sure all the libraries are up to date and all the
permissions are in place to get Napster running.

Despite the concerns of us (the nerd set), MS is actively trying to address those
concerns of the end users they are targeting Windows XP at; in much the same way
that Apple is trying to define the userbase that will eventually migrate to MacOSX.

Before the Linux community can dream of eating up MS, they are going to have to
address those areas that (believe it or not) Windows does provide quality in
the service of.

 

[Oyeve]

BEOS is by far better than linux. I really hate all this linux is great, linux is free, blah blah blah. It sucks. It will never catch on. Its like mac. Still there, just doesnt know when to lay down and die. 10 years and many revs later, where is linux? In magazines. On the NET. thats it.

 

[Budman]

I tried XP and i like it very much,Linus is NOT the future,Linux will never be the os of choice for the average user.

I currently run Win98se and never really cared for Win2k that much but Xp is very nice &amp; when it finaly goes gold i will probably consider running it as my main OS.

And you people saying But linux is free,Yes it is &amp; you get what you pay for.

M$ is also free to me if you know where to look.

 

[MGMorden]

MS being free is kinda illegal you know. And with Linux you don't get what you pay for, you get a LOT more. With Linux I install and by default I've got all the compilers I need, a nice customizeable GUI, remote desktop capabilites, MUCH better mulittasking, office apps (Koffice rulez), and updates/innovations at a rate that Microsoft can't touch. The only things Windows does better is gaming (because they're all written for Windows), printing, and Internet Explorer (which I'll admit is better then the Linux browsers, but Konqueror is catching up fast).

and Oyeve, if you think Linux has gotten nowhere in 10years, then you should check again. It's user base has grown TREMENDOUSLY in the past 10 years and it currently has fastest growing userbase. BTW, how is it that Linux &quot;doesn't know when to lay down and die&quot;? It's a community effort. People work on this code as a group because we WANT a better alternative. Are you sugesting that we give up these efforts and just throw away our preference simply because YOU want to take the crap MS shovels on you? (And BTW, though BeOS was a good product, Be INC as far as BeOS is concerned has more or less lain down and died. They're concentrating almost entirely on BeIA now).

 

[PCResources]

<< surprised to find that Linus could have done it all himself. >>



Ok then, be surprised...



<< Linux will never be the os of choice for the average user >>



Linux is coming, it can do most of the things Windows can do already, and in some dists it is just as easy to install and use...

One thing that looks promising in Linux future is that more and more games will be developed in two versions, one for Linux and one for Windows, as linux is free, it would be the better choice...

If you are interested in gaming only, i would agree, it will take some time before linux becomes the superior gaming platform, if you are using mainly office applications, then Linux is way superior, there are many office applications availiable for Linux and most of them are free..

How user friendly was Windows from the start? was a NT installation user friendly? was a dos installation user friendly? Nope, it was not... Every os will develop, and as far as i can see, only one os is developing in the right direction (maybe with the exception of BeOS) Linux...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[Eug]

<< Plus, there are free SQL servers, free mail servers, free web servers (and not like the PWS that Microsoft delivers) free office applications, free graphic programs (even the GIMP is free, even though it can do almost everything PS can do, and there are plenty of plugins for it) and lots of other free software for it... If you want to synchronize your palm, just do it in staroffice... >>


Like I said, the average person does not use SQL or mail servers. Photoshop is the industry standard. It's almost irrelevant that GIMP is free, because the design community simply don't use it. And StarOffice is absolutely horrendous - it's roughly 3 years behind MS Office. We are talking completely different markets here: Great free server software does not equal everyone's favourite OS.


<< If you take the time to optimize your linux dist you can gain as much as 65% in pure HDD performance and as much as 25% in video performance... >>

Therein lies the problem. Despite the fact that we like tweaking our machines, 98% of the world's population don't have the interest or the patience to do so.

This is my main issue with Linux. Sure it can be great, but it's really geared towards a specific subset of computer owners.

 

[PCResources]

CQuinn:

Actually, you do not know what you are talking about, every linux distribution is perfectly and completely compatiable with the other one, the drivers that works for one of them will work for the other ones, the applications that will work for one will work for the other ones, you just have to choose which format you want them packed in...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[PCResources]

<< it's roughly 3 years behind MS Office >>



Please explain why you think so... Is it the functions, if so, describe which...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[Eug]

<< the drivers that works for one of them will work for the other ones >>

Well, at least for me (who is a Linux newbie at best of course) Promise's drivers for Redhat 6.0 would not work with Redhat 6.2 or any other distro. Even on the website at the time they said it was specifically for Redhat 6.0. It's probably now been updated though.

EDIT:

The main problem with StarOffice is the integration and interoperability, and the fact that it was not completely stable, at least when I ran it. Also, templates for StarOffice's PowerPoint clone were simply ugly. Granted, the same could be said about most of PowerPoint's but there's more support (which is key to me). And in general, at the time, it just wasn't as slick as Office 2000. In fact, I even prefer Office 97 to last year's StarOffice. However, I don't know how good the current Star Office is, but I do know that some people complain about file compatibility problems. This is of course expected, but I just don't want to waste time dealing with them.

But for a free product it's damn nice.

 

[PCResources]

<< Well, at least for me (who is a Linux newbie at best of course) Promise's drivers for Redhat 6.0 would not work with Redhat 6.2 or any other distro. Even on the website at the time they said it was specifically for Redhat 6.0. Dunno if it's finally been updated though. >>



Well, at least you tried to prove me wrong here... what i said was that it would work for every distribution.. not for every kernel... if you have an older kernel, use older drivers, if you get a newer kernel get newer drivers... If you were using W2K you wouldn't be using win3.1 drivers, now would you?

Still, you haven't explained why you think StarOffice is so bad, which functions are missing?

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[Eug]

Anyways, please don't consider this a personal attack on you. If it works fine for you, fine. All the power to ya for making the most out of a free OS and software.

I actually WANTED to like Linux, but it simply isn't suited for the home (or even non-tech office) market. If it were, I would have switched to it long ago, because I like saving money too.

 

[marcio]

My experience and conclusion are exactly the same as Diesel21.
Mandrake linux is not at all faster than Windows 2k. In fact, it feels slower. uptime of my Win2K machines are very high too. Not one of the software that I need to use in real life is ported to linux. Among comparable software, only compilers and MS Office (StarOffice) has linux versions that I can actually use.

I disagree with the person who said that linux is ahead of Windows and Mac in the UI department. The Mac interface is the clear winner among the 3 in the UI department, and I don't think many disagree with me on this. And being able to choose different UI is a liability instead of an advantage. Yes, power users might like that, but what the average user (as well as IT departments) wants is consistency and homogeneity. You can't get that when each machine you go to has a different interface.

Shouldn't all these Windows threads be in the operating systems forum?

 

[MGMorden]

marcio: While I agree that average users want a common UI, I think it's safe to say that most of them get it. Mostly only powerusers use WindowMaker, Afterstep, blackbox, Sapphire, etc., whilst anybody else uses either KDE or GNOME (the official standard Linux GUI). Both of these work very much the same, and are both close to windows in functionality. The others don't complicate things at all, as there are virtually just as many alternative shells for windows (I know many of you here must have tried Litestep), they just don't seem to integrate as well as the Linux environments.

 

[PCResources]

<< Anyways, please don't consider this a personal attack on you. If it works fine for you, fine. All the power to ya for making the most out of a free OS and software. >>



I am not taking anything you said as a personal attack... thank you for your input...

Still, will you ever answer my question, what about StarOffice, what is missing, why do you consider it three years behind MS Office in development, i have asked others this before, but never got any answers...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[PCResources]

<< And being able to choose different UI is a liability instead of an advantage. >>



Sure, but you do not have to change your UI in Linux, you just get the option to do so... So what is your point? If you have no choices, then you have the perfect environment?

This is sooooo wrong, you can make it look like Win98, but you do not have to, you can make it look like Mac, but you do not have to... Chose your own UI, that is what linux is all about, scalability and freedom to use whatever components YOU like... Free of charge!!

Does windows let you do that, no, there you will have to use what you got, and still you paid for it, even if you do not like it...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[Diesel21]

I have been running Windows 2000 since Beta3, and not once have I wanted to change the GUI.

The option to choose your GUI is not a thing that makes me want to change to a different OS.

 

[MGMorden]

But is a bad thing if an OS has that feature? No, it's a good thing. You change OS's because lots of these little good things start to add up. And believe me, there's many that DO want to change the Win2k interface (even Microsoft as it appears w/ XP ), as is shown by the abundance of things like windowblinds, litestep, darkstep, Neoplanet, even the all-popular Winamp. All of these attempt to break from the monotany that is the windows interface.

 

[Eug]

<< Still, will you ever answer my question, what about StarOffice, what is missing, why do you consider it three years behind MS Office in development, i have asked others this before, but never got any answers... >>

See my post below. I had edited it to add my message when I saw your post.

 

[Spook]

I guess, I shouldn't have posted this right before I left work a couple hours ago... All the sudden this thread is huge...

My point of posting this thread, is not to argue whether Linux sucks or not, I started this thread for the purpose of showing people the directions that microsoft has to go to contiunue growing as a company(at least its the direction they have chosen)...

I myself find it appalling, and we, you and me and the rest of the Gaming/Hardware community need to see this and steer ourselves away from Microsoft, and these outragous business practices, and steer ourselves as a community, towards another operating system...

It needs to be done together, so that allot of the issues we have been discussing, can be remedied... There isn't much support for Linux, because there aren't enough users, but if we, as gamers/hardware enthusists, choose a new platform, those people making the Hardware/Games will be forced to support or not sell their games/hardware to us...

Believe it or not, people like myself and you have allot of influence on others when it comes to computer purchases... Think about it, How many people ask you about their computer problems(What should I buy, What do I need, Blah, Blah, Blah)... I give people advise all the time...

Beos / MACOS / Linux it doesn't matter(Well it does matter), we just need to do it together...

 

[Oyeve]

Come on! Linux is geekware! (no offense I'm semi geeky). Everyone bitches about MS but most everyone uses it, even you linux guys! Everyone bitches about Intel but 90% use it. If you like linux, fine, use it, but dont try to push it as a superior OS cuz it aint! There are no superior OSes otherwise we would all be using it. I bet Linus wishes he could have sold it to MS for a few billion! I miss NeXT!

 

[Eug]

Yeah, I give advice to people when they ask. Unfortunately, most of the time I'm forced to recommend Windows. The Linux gurus don't need my advice because they know a heluvalot more about computing than I do, and know they need the features of Linux for their purposes. My Mac friends stay with Mac, because most of their software and training is on the Mac, and that's what they prefer to use. Plus, for Photoshop, a nice G4 is pretty damn fast even it does cost a lot.

Then there's the average Joe/Jill Blow who asks me if they should get a cheap PC or an iMac. I invariably say PC because it's cheaper, the interoperability is superior, and Mac OS 9 sucks in general.

I strongly considered getting a Mac laptop but OS X wasn't out, and even if it was out it was far too new, and the equipment cost too much. In the end I went for a Win 2000 one. BeOS and Linux simply were never even in the running for the reasons I've stated below.