Microsoft Palladium, yes or no

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Descartes
Not to hijack this thread, but...

The problem I have with linux is that when you learn something, you never really learn something.

If you want a Linux-distro that will not only teach you Linux, but also about your computer in general, then look no further than this. The installation begins by compiling the compiler that you will use to install rest of the system . Of course, you can istall it "the easy way", but you can also do it hardcore.

As to your comments regarding FHS... They (the distributors) occasionally may change the filesystem hierarchy, but that's because they are working towards being more compliant with the FHS. Distros are moving towards FHS, not away from it.

 

[Nemesis77]

As to the question... I would rather sell my soul to satan than run Palladium (well, is there really any difference between those two?)

 

[blurredvision]

I agree with what some have said about linux not being an average man's operating system. Plus, everything's just made for Windows now-a-days anyways. You people bitch about paying an absurd price for Microsoft products, yet you know over half of you pirate their software.

But what is Palladium, and where can I find out more about it?

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77
As to the question... I would rather sell my soul to satan than run Palladium (well, is there really any difference between those two?)

It's people like you who keep stifling progress. If Linux users were more friendly instead of making comments like that, I might be willing to spend more time to learn it. Linux is not stable. It is not fast. I used it for awhile and found both to be entirely untrue. That is why I will continue using windows. I crashed it more times than I have ever crashed windows, and it takes forever to do anything. I'll stick with windows and you can use linux. There's no need to be making comments like that. You just steer people away from your cause.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: WoodchuckCharlie
I agree with what some have said about linux not being an average man's operating system. Plus, everything's just made for Windows now-a-days anyways. You people bitch about paying an absurd price for Microsoft products, yet you know over half of you pirate their software.

But what is Palladium, and where can I find out more about it?

Here you are.
Google is your friend! (Unlike Palladium)

 

[SSP]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: WoodchuckCharlie
I agree with what some have said about linux not being an average man's operating system. Plus, everything's just made for Windows now-a-days anyways. You people bitch about paying an absurd price for Microsoft products, yet you know over half of you pirate their software.

But what is Palladium, and where can I find out more about it?

Here you are.
Google is your friend! (Unlike Palladium)

Bill Gates has dreamed of finding a way to make the Chinese pay for software: Palladium could be the answer to his prayer.

AHAHHAHA!

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Nemesis77
As to the question... I would rather sell my soul to satan than run Palladium (well, is there really any difference between those two?)

It's people like you who keep stifling progress.

It's people like you who like to spout BS. There are plenty of anti-Palladium people on this thread, why single me out? Oh, that must be because I dare to use Linux. I must be somekind of anti-american commie, right?

If Linux users were more friendly instead of making comments like that, I might be willing to spend more time to learn it.

There are plenty of anti-palladium people on this thread, and it seems that many of them run Windows. Does that make Windows-users unfriendly? Palladium is crap, plain and simple. And it seems that majority of people agree with me (at least when I look at the poll). So how exactly am I being "rude Linux-user", since 68.18% of voters share my viewpoint? Are they "rude windows-users"? How can you use Windows, if windows-users are so rude that they dare to oppose Palladium?

And what it's worth: I have found the Linux-community to be the most helpful bunch of people I have ever seen. True, with a group that big, there are bound to be few rotten apples there. But overall they are nice people who like to help others.

Linux is not stable.

Bullsh!t. Pure, 100% bullsh!t, refuted by countless users and expers, not to mention several years worth of user-experiences.

It is not fast.

Based on what? That 3D-games run faster on Linux than they do on Windows?

I used it for awhile and found both to be entirely untrue.

I have used Linux for years now and it's plenty of fast and extremly stable. Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. And why did you start to bitch at me? On this thread? All I did was that I expressed an opinion that majority of us here shares. Opinion said by numerous others before me. Yet you singled me out and started to whine. You wanna know something? I couldn't give a rats ass what you have to say.

I crashed it more times than I have ever crashed windows, and it takes forever to do anything.

Funny, Linux doesn't crash here, and I have used several distributions (started with SuSE, moved to Debian, now running Gentoo). "Takes forever to do anything"? What are you blabbering about? For example, when I install Linux, I can start working right away, all the drivers and software is already installed. With Windows I need to install the apps, install ther drivers... That's something I don't have to do in Linux, when I install the OS, the apps are installed too.

There's no need to be making comments like that. You just steer people away from your cause.

What on earth are you talking about? SEVERAL people have expressed their annoyance with Palladium. Why can they make those comments, but I can't? Seriously, you are just full of sh!t.

FWIW: I also run W2K.

 

[SSP]

Nemesis77, don't even bother replying to that retarded troll.

XZeroII, why don't you read the link provided to you by Skyclad. If you want to be taken seriously here, making stupid statements like "it?s not fast? is not going help.

I use XP and I know Palladium is fscking crap. Bill gates can wipe my ass if he wants to delete my files.

 

[blurredvision]

With Windows I need to install the apps, install ther drivers... That's something I don't have to do in Linux, when I install the OS, the apps are installed too.

Ummmm, Linux knows exactly what apps you want installed and does everything for you?? And for the past few years, anytime I've installed a Microsoft OS, I've never had to install any kind of drivers, everything was installed at OS installation.

That's the only sentence I had a problem with

But yeah, after reading that link that Skyclad1uhm1 provided me, Palladium does sound like a POS.

 

[bsobel]

I use XP and I know Palladium is fscking crap. Bill gates can wipe my ass if he wants to delete my files.

The amount of disinformation and outright lies on the thread is amazing. I get the strong impression few if any hear actually understand the palladium architecture and what it does and what it does NOT do.

IIRC Palladium will be subscription based, amongst other things

More rumors.

I'm not going to say Palladium is great, nor that it's the devil. For many things it's too early to tell. However, it's obviously not too early for the folks to jump to illogical conclusions.

Bill

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: WoodchuckCharlie

With Windows I need to install the apps, install ther drivers... That's something I don't have to do in Linux, when I install the OS, the apps are installed too.

Ummmm, Linux knows exactly what apps you want installed and does everything for you?? And for the past few years, anytime I've installed a Microsoft OS, I've never had to install any kind of drivers, everything was installed at OS installation.

That's the only sentence I had a problem with

What I meant is that in your average Linux-distro, when you install the OS, it provides you with a list of available apps. You pick and choose what you want, and the proceed with the installation. I once timed it how long it took me to have fully installed system just waiting for me to start working. From start of the install to a fully operational desktop with all the apps I wanted installed: about 25 minutes. Installation of Windows takes about the same time, but after that I have to install the apps I want to use + the drivers. All in all, I think full installation of Windows, apps and drivers takes a bit over 1 hour (well, assuming what and how many apps you want to install).

Installed Linux-distro is good to go, you can start using it for real work right away (with servers, server-tool, developement-tools, office-suites etc. etc.). Installed Windows is not ready to go. Just about the only things you can do with it, is to play solitaire and run Notepad.

 

[LordRaiden]

Palladium is just Microsoft's attempt at total system control. Basically you will be totall owned by microsoft the moment you boot your machine. And yes it is true. They will be able to shove down your throught anything that they darned well feel like. The RIAA and MPAA will be having a field day with you too. You wanna play a sound file on your computer? You gotta ask permission? MP3? Forget it. Movie file? Out of the question? DVD? You gotta ask first, pay second, pray you can even play it afterwords.

Palladium is a very bad idea and I hope it dies.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

The only piece of MS software I use is Win2k, by the time I need to upgrade Linux will have caught up enough that I can call it my main OS.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Descartes
Not to hijack this thread, but...

The problem I have with linux is that when you learn something, you never really learn something.

If you want a Linux-distro that will not only teach you Linux, but also about your computer in general, then look no further than this. The installation begins by compiling the compiler that you will use to install rest of the system . Of course, you can istall it "the easy way", but you can also do it hardcore.

As to your comments regarding FHS... They (the distributors) occasionally may change the filesystem hierarchy, but that's because they are working towards being more compliant with the FHS. Distros are moving towards FHS, not away from it.

I know linux well, and use it along with other unices on a daily basis. I was just noting my frustrations with time lost and lack of knowledge gained when I go on these "configuration marathons". Granted, development platforms are more difficult to get running stably. I've never had any other more end-user related troubles with linux, but then again... I'm all about init 3, not so much init 5. I have little need for Gnome/KDE.

Honestly, the only thing that has been made easier in linux since when I started ('96 or so) is X. RedHat's Kudzu does eliminate some of the more tedious configuration problems as well I suppose...

[edit]Btw, Gentoo's site is down. I hope this isn't indicative of their distro's stability J/K![/edit]

 

[SSP]

Originally posted by: bsobel

I use XP and I know Palladium is fscking crap. Bill gates can wipe my ass if he wants to delete my files.

The amount of disinformation and outright lies on the thread is amazing. I get the strong impression few if any hear actually understand the palladium architecture and what it does and what it does NOT do.

IIRC Palladium will be subscription based, amongst other things

More rumors.

I'm not going to say Palladium is great, nor that it's the devil. For many things it's too early to tell. However, it's obviously not too early for the folks to jump to illogical conclusions.

Bill

Its what they are capable of doing is what I a problem with.

 

[bsobel]

Its what they are capable of doing is what I a problem with.

Then don't run anything in the trusted core. All your existing apps will run just fine.

You wanna play a sound file on your computer? You gotta ask permission? MP3? Forget it. Movie file? Out of the question? DVD? You gotta ask first, pay second, pray you can even play it afterwords.

Wrong, wrong wrong wrong. Did I mention WRONG? Just like the rumor that WMP and the content protection stuff it added wouldn't allow you to play MP3 files (which was obviously not true). Palladium in a nutshell; You rip your own MP3 or download one from Kazza, Palladium isn't involved. You buy a pay per view movie online from Blockbuster and download it, Palladium can be used to enforce the rules (e.g. watch it once, watch it as many times as you want for 24 hours, etc). This is no different (unfortunately ) than the ability to enforce such content controls that your cable or dss box already has. What is does is gets places like Blockbuster to feel safe enough to sell pay per view over the internet (etc).

But suggesting it retroactively prevents you from accessing your own content (such as the MP3 files you have) is either disinformation, lies, or misunderstanding of what the system does.

Bill

 

[ScottyB]

I wouldn't mind if they had activation like Win Xp on everything, but they would have to do away with Enterprise editions with global keys. It will have to be one cd, one key for every machine.

 

[KGB1]

Well since Palladium is being developed with both Intel/Microsoft.... I have 3 options

Option 1: Buy AMD and stick with Windows 2K/XP/98Se

Option 2: Buy AMD/Intel and stay the route of 2k/XP/98Se

Option 3: Buy AMD/Intel and switch to Red Hat

Its not a hard choice really, but the Faq that was contributed by Skyclad1uhm1 is very informative.

Since one of my PC's is always on within my lan.. I would be pretty mad that my files were deleted or tampered with LEGALLY with the Palladium service :|

 

[Darien]

Originally posted by: KGB
Well since Palladium is being developed with both Intel/Microsoft.... I have 3 options

Option 1: Buy AMD and stick with Windows 2K/XP/98Se

Option 2: Buy AMD/Intel and stay the route of 2k/XP/98Se

Option 3: Buy AMD/Intel and switch to Red Hat

Its not a hard choice really, but the Faq that was contributed by Skyclad1uhm1 is very informative.

Since one of my PC's is always on within my lan.. I would be pretty mad that my files were deleted or tampered with LEGALLY with the Palladium service :|

Option 4: Buy a mac



Or you could be like me and many others...and plan on getting red hat

goo 3! (or 4)

 

[LikeLinus]

Please explain what CPU you are going to be using with Linux when Palladium/TCPA becomes required? A CPU (Intel and AMD) will require you to use a Palladium based OS to even run. Linux will either have to adapt to Palladium or the consumer will have to find a new chip that will run a non TCPA OS.

TCPA is a Fritz chip, how is Linux going to bypass this hardware? IF the CPU/Chip require an TCAP compliant OS in the future, moving to Linux will help you how?

"The result is a PC booted into a known state with an approved combination of hardware and software"


"If there are significant changes to the PC's configuration, the machine must go online to be re-certified. " How exactly can everyone blame Microsoft for this part of TCPA. Everyone want's to bitch and complain about Palladium, but it's the Fritz chip on the motherboard that is going to require you to go online and recertify your computer. How is this different than XP's hardware management and Registration process right now? Everyone wants to throw a fit at MS, but AMD/Intel and many other vendors are getting ready to do the same thing.

The point is...COMPANIES....ALL OF THEM...want to protect their product and intellectual property. Placing blame on MS isn't going to change the fact that TCAP will be what the real problem is.

At least two companies have started work on a TCPA-enhanced version of GNU/linux. This will involve tidying up the code and removing a number of features. To get a certificate from the TCPA corsortium, the sponsor will then have to submit the pruned code to an evaluation lab, together with a mass of documentation showing why various known attacks on the code don't work.

This is for all you stupid MS haters. Linux distros are already going to start accepting the TCPA into their products.

"You will still be free to make modifications to the modified code, but you won't be able to get a certificate that gets you into the TCPA system"

Quit blaming Microsoft and being lame? Ok?

 

[bsobel]

Well since Palladium is being developed with both Intel/Microsoft.... I have 3 options

AMD is also going to be shipping Palladium compatible hardware.

Bill

 

[LikeLinus]

AMD said the opteron (sp?) won't be palladium compliant...but future CPU's will be

 

[slag]

What I meant is that in your average Linux-distro, when you install the OS, it provides you with a list of available apps. You pick and choose what you want, and the proceed with the installation. I once timed it how long it took me to have fully installed system just waiting for me to start working. From start of the install to a fully operational desktop with all the apps I wanted installed: about 25 minutes. Installation of Windows takes about the same time, but after that I have to install the apps I want to use + the drivers. All in all, I think full installation of Windows, apps and drivers takes a bit over 1 hour (well, assuming what and how many apps you want to install).

Installed Linux-distro is good to go, you can start using it for real work right away (with servers, server-tool, developement-tools, office-suites etc. etc.). Installed Windows is not ready to go. Just about the only things you can do with it, is to play solitaire and run Notepad.

Not to start an argument with you, but I recently installed RH8 and it took well over an hour on my laptop. Win2k took 49 minutes. Windows 2k also comes with the apps you need just like Linux does. Linux has VI, Windows has notepad or wordpad. Linux has Netscape or whatever browser of the month they are pimping, Windows has IE. Linux has a mail client, Windows has a mail client. Linux has a file explorer system, Windows has a file explorer system. Both have games also. Both have window managers. The linux install is much much larger than the Windows install also. You must have some basic knowledge of the linux filesystem and how you want to configure it also whereas windows just wants to know the basic drive you want it installed on.

Yes, Windows does make you install some drivers that it doesnt come natively with or that you cannot download off of the ms update site, but I see now that Redhat has adopted the whole Webupdate Wizard style that Windows has been using for a couple years now.. Good for them!!

Redhat doesnt come with Native drivers for many pieces of hardware either, you have to download and install them. No different from Windows.

Its a real wash. I have used both, and continue to use both. For the casual web surfer and email reader, either works fine. If you frequently manipulate project, word, excel, any type of those files, perhaps a windows box would be better (although open office is rather nice also).

By all means, if you want to play any current games, Windows is the only operating system you should be interested in. Wine?? sure, it "kinda works and is a good effort, but it doesnt work with all games". Vmware is an option also to have the best of both worlds (and that is what we use at work), but dont try playing games inside of windows running on linux. It will give you headaches and eat massive amounts of ram.

Both are great operating systems. Until games and office documents can be ported easily across the platforms however, Windows is definitely here to stay.

 

[hdeck]

There is a downside too. There will be remote censorship: the mechanisms designed to delete pirated music under remote control may be used to delete documents that a court (or a software company) has decided are offensive - this could be anything from pornography to writings that criticise political leaders. Software companies can also make it harder for you to switch to their competitors' products; for example, Word could encrypt all your documents using keys that only Microsoft products have access to; this would mean that you could only read them using Microsoft products, not with any competing word processor.

i love it already...

 

[SagaLore]

Palladium isn't going to be a seperate Operating System. It's supposed to be a subsystem extension that is both hardware and software based to secure data.

This poll might as well be Apples versus Oranges.