Microsoft is committing suicide with Windows 8

[hhhd1]

With some luck Microsoft won't realize in time and will lose its utter and complete PC operating system dominance so we can finally have some true competition. What you envision would be a great opportunity for everyone else!

If only I can find an alternative to "MS Visual studio", that is as powerful, and support Dot.NET , I'd leave windows all together, this is the one thing keeping me with windows 7 now.

"Mono" is not there yet.

 

[Snoop]

If only I can find an alternative to "MS Visual studio", that is as powerful, and support Dot.NET , I'd leave windows all together, this is the one thing keeping me with windows 7 now.

"Mono" is not there yet.

I am in the same position.

 

[beginner99]

One click to desktop is a tile within Metro mode. So having something automatically selecting that tile should be a safe option. Trying to do more than that is probably more risky and may have unintented issues. The time it takes to switch from Metro to Desktop mode is only a second or so. Personally, a second does not bother me.

As an alternative to Classic Shell, there is also a program called Start8 which also automatically sends you to desktop mode and adds a Start Menu. This program is made by Stardock. I plan on trying this soon.

For email, my understanding that the only new email client is the one in Metro. When finalized, it will have IMAP, but no POP3 support. There will be no new desktop mode email client, but version in Live Essentials 2011 is supposed to work in 8.

If it is 1 second that is terrible. 1 second is a lot. It is very noticeable delay and I hate such delays even if short, thats why I have an SSD.

I dont' want to pay $$$ for a new version just to have to buy $$$ some 3rd party software to get rid of the main new feature. That just seems retarded even if it is rather easy to achieve. There should be a simple setting that decides between starting into metro or desktop. Anything else is not acceptable. AFAIK such a switch was there once in Win 8 until MS deliberately removed it...

Also seriously considering to buy a win 7 OEM just to be safe...I will soonest upgrade my mainboard with haswell mabye later. So i would be stuck with Win 8...unless MS lets me switch anyway to new mobo...

 

[Zaap]

No, I'd rather not, thank you. Just moving my thumb is exercise aplenty.

Still love and use my old* trusted TrackMan Wheel all day, every day (pretty much) and I use my new fancy M570 in front of my TV right now. (*As in corded, my very oldest has much lower DPI/inferior tracking.) No space issues or mouse elbow for me.

I do move my wrist for the occasional high-speed precision tasks though (gaming).

Nice. I've tried trackballs, but personally they just aren't for me. Still just prefer the old fashioned mouse. So far the MS wireless 5000 is the most perfect I've found for me- fits my hand like a glove, and no stress to use it. Point devices are still one thing MS knows how to make well. I do like Apple's magic trackpad in addition to a mouse when using OSX though.

 

[MrMuppet]

Nice. I've tried trackballs, but personally they just aren't for me. Still just prefer the old fashioned mouse. So far the MS wireless 5000 is the most perfect I've found for me- fits my hand like a glove, and no stress to use it. Point devices are still one thing MS knows how to make well. I do like Apple's magic trackpad in addition to a mouse when using OSX though.

Yes, they do take some getting used to. But once you're over that initial hurdle (learning-curve if you will) it's worth it and you won't regret it. If you have access to or can borrow one, I suggest you try it for a week or two (if you haven't already). At first I wasn't too comfortable with one either, but now I can use both (and then you can always switch around to balance the strain if you feel like it). You never know.

 

[jhansman]

Yeah guys, what's there to be upset about?

Gee, let's hope your "upset" doesn't cause you too much pain. Many, many of us have been able to adjust to new versions of Windows since (in my case) 2.0; since nobody is forcing anybody to use anything, we are free to choose which version suits each of us, and the idea that MS is "committing suicide" is just absurd. I do think they are rolling the dice here, and it'll be interesting to see how the desktop market responds. In the meantime, haters must hate...

 

[Zargon]

I was going to write a lot about it but I'm just going to say; Windows 8 is pure shit.

Bring back the start menu or I'll never upgrade beyond 7.

I've been a die hard MS fan since day 1 too. I even liked Vista and ME.

why do you even use the start menu?

winkey +type what you want = search

just like win7

 

[MrMuppet]

why do you even use the start menu?

winkey +type what you want = search

just like win7

That doesn't always work though. You need to know the name of the actual shortcut. If you only know the name of the executable or the folder the shortcut is in, you won't find it that way.

Let's say I want to use that Western Digital HDD testing tool I have installed.

I know the shortcut is located somewhere in the folder "Western Digital Corporation", so I type in "wes" - No items to match your search. Bummer.

So I think some more, that's right, the executable's called "WinDlg.exe", so I type in "windl" - No items to match your search. Bummer.

So in the end I have to navigate to it manually instead. Apparently the shortcut's called "Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows" and resides in "Western Digital Corporation\Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows" (but the folder names are ignored).

So that's my little rant about the Windows 7 start menu, which is the only real substantial reason I prefer 7 over XP GUI/usability wise that I can think of (then there are other improvements "under the hood" of course). As long as it actually does work (most cases) it's awfully convenient and I'm a bit surprised at myself for never upgrading my desktop to Vista to get start menu search. (I guess I just couldn't be bothered until I really needed 64-bit and by then there was Windows 7. Back in XP quick launch spam combined with most frequently used programs kept me afloat.)

 

[capeconsultant]

Personally, I use it like crazy to see what programs I have installed and to launch them. Or to get to Control Panel or my computer etc. Pretty much why they put the start menu there to begin with.

I LOVE THE START BUTTON!

 

[Blazer7]

Start menu for Win8

Win8 boot to desktop, How to

Both of the above are working fine for me making 8 tolerable.

 

[hhhd1]

Start menu for Win8

Win8 boot to desktop, How to

Both of the above are working fine for me making 8 tolerable.

That start menu lacks allot of important functionality,

1. like the ability to make the icons on the left small,
2. pin new apps there
3. it takes like 10~20 seconds to show up after windows start-up
4. all right-click functions do not exist
5. its color is different than aero color
6. avg marked it as a virus

7. it crashed on shutdown

the good about it:1. it has shutdown/restart buttons

 

[hhhd1]

To be fair:

if those happened:

1. having the ability to totally avoid the metro style, just like people avoided media center on windows xp/vista/7 desktops.
2. having old start menu functionality back.

This could be a very descent OS.

 

[Zaap]

I wouldn't say people avoided media center. It was just obvious to most there's no real reason for it unless you're using... *drumroll*.............


..... a media center!


It would have been equally stupid and just as short-sighted if MS had tried to make Media Center the default interface of Windows, to be clicked past to do anything else with the computer.

Because you know, in 2005 or so, media PCs were all the rage and 'the future' kind of like tablets are now. So surely, everyone must have wanted to use the same interface from 10 inches away as they do from 10 feet away, just like everyone now must want a half-assed tablet interface on their desktop computer.

 

[Blazer7]

That start menu lacks allot of important functionality,

1. like the ability to make the icons on the left small,
2. pin new apps there
3. it takes like 10~20 seconds to show up after windows start-up
4. all right-click functions do not exist
5. its color is different than aero color
6. avg marked it as a virus

7. it crashed on shutdown

the good about it:1. it has shutdown/restart buttons

AFAIK this is only the 2nd iteration of vistart that runs under 8 so by no means this is final/perfect and it surely lucks a lot of features as you've already pointed out. The time it takes to load depends on your sw/hw setup but since this is a 3rd party app it will never be as fast as the real thing. I can confirm all of your remarks above with the exception of 6. I've installed AVG free just to try to replicate this but it passed 2 complete scans without a hiccup.

I use Oracle's VM for 8 solely for the purpose of testing a number of programs for compatibility issues and vistart always crashes on shutdown. However because of the VM I'm not 100% sure that vistart is to blame. If you, or anyone else can confirm that vistart crashes on shutdown regardless of running from a VM it would be good to know.

All and all the purpose of my previous post was to show everyone that if M$ wanted, they could have easily maintained the traditional desktop UI as an option. That way everybody would have been happy.

For the time my evaluation of the OS lasts I will be using vistart and the likes with all their problems if it is to avoid metro. Needles to say that I'm so fond of the new UI that as long as it remains the only UI option, I won't be upgrading.

Sadly there are a lot of articles out there that claim that M$ is removing parts of the code in an attempt to prevent 3rd parties from coming up with apps like vistart so I believe that all of us that don't like metro are left with only 2 options, skip 8 or suffer.

To be fair:

if those happened:

1. having the ability to totally avoid the metro style, just like people avoided media center on windows xp/vista/7 desktops.
2. having old start menu functionality back.

This could be a very descent OS.

+1

 

[Jaskalas]

...
This could be a very descent OS.

Absolutely.

Shame they lack common sense.

 

[Spjut]

I have barely ever bothered with modifying Windows, but there's no way I'll ever get Windows 8 as long as I'm stuck with Metro.

Reading about Microsoft currently preventing apps which get the start menu back makes me worried, if they really are serious people may need new fixes each time Microsoft releases updates and service packs.

I'd guess the only hope we have of Microsoft allowing us to skip Metro in Win9 is if Win8 does really bad

 

[-Slacker-]

So is there a quick,safe way to get w8 to boot straight to the desktop on it's own, or not?

And I'm not talking about this crap:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/boot-to-the-classic-desktop-in-windows-8-consumer-preview/19068

I mean like a direct method certified by microsoft, that won't cause any bugs or anything, like ... click, click, click, done.

 

[ViRGE]

So is there a quick,safe way to get w8 to boot straight to the desktop on it's own, or not?

And I'm not talking about this crap:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/boot-to-the-classic-desktop-in-windows-8-consumer-preview/19068

I mean like a direct method certified by microsoft, that won't cause any bugs or anything, like ... click, click, click, done.

That method no longer works as of the Release Preview. Microsoft ripped out a lot of old stuff between those two releases.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The best solution to getting the start menu back is to stick with windows XP/7 or go with Linux. :biggrin:

 

[Zaap]

I no longer give a poop. Mountain Lion is lightyears ahead of this latest tripe from MS. Outshined is an understatement.

 

[Blazer7]

That method no longer works as of the Release Preview. Microsoft ripped out a lot of old stuff between those two releases.

As I've posted earlier that still works for me, for the time being that is. However I expect M$ to pull the plug on this fast.
Anything that may make 8 resemble 7 is getting the boot.

 

[MrMuppet]

That method no longer works as of the Release Preview. Microsoft ripped out a lot of old stuff between those two releases.

You're kidding, right? Not only is Microsoft not lifting a finger to cater to the needs of their loyal long-time ("traditionalist") customers and "power-users" (= people who actually have a use or need for desktops), it is even going out of its way to disable the few fixes that exist?

 

[ViRGE]

You're kidding, right? Not only is Microsoft not lifting a finger to cater to the needs of their loyal long-time ("traditionalist") customers and "power-users", it is even going out of its way to disable the few fixes that exist?

Correct. Microsoft needs to get users on-board with Metro in order to ensure devs write for it as opposed to the legacy Windows APIs. To do that they need to not only be sure that every Win8 user can run Metro applications, but that it becomes the preferred application type.

If users can completely bypass Metro then it will never build up sufficient momentum.

 

[PingviN]

I don't get the hating regarding Windows 8 :/ It's different, yes, but once you get past the initial "wtf?" it works really well. The Metro Start Screen is miles superior the old Start Menu and with the Superbar, why would you need a traditional start menu?

Metro interface is sometimes awkward, but on a PC, you don't need to use it. You still have full access to the Desktop and all the settings you could find in Windows 7.

What's the issue here? I don't get it.

 

[pelov]

Metro interface is sometimes awkward, but on a PC, you don't need to use it. You still have full access to the Desktop and all the settings you could find in Windows 7.

Every time you hit the windows key or want to launch an application via the old start menu method it takes you to Metro. You answered your own question.

There's a lot wrong with it. Let's make a list:

- Metro scrolls sideways. Good for a tablet meant to be held sideways (Surface is 16x9, btw) but stupid on a large screen where you can fit a larger number of applications on the screen. You're also greeted with the "swipe to enter" when you first boot up. Encouraging.

- good luck changing the sizes of those tiles. They're big and blocky and there's no point to that on a desktop. It's not an upgrade or even a sidegrade but a very obvious downgrade from the start menu. It takes longer to find an application than it would with a start menu, offers less as far as options goes, and it takes up the entire screen. What are the upsides again?

- Ribbon style menus are horrible. It's big and blocky and makes the important stuff, like if you were reading a word document, smaller.

- Multi-tasking in Metro is still in the beta stage and no better than Android. Rather ridiculous considering you're talking desktop usage here...

- You can't "close" Metro apps easily, you simply put them in a sleep-but-still-open state. Also, Metro apps are closed by swiping or dragging it to the bottom of the screen. Apparently a small X to click and actually close doesn't suffice. (this is meant for tablets/phones so the apps open quicker due to the limited resources/computational power but if you're on a desktop with an SSD you don't gain any benefit from this at all outside of a whole lot of alt+ctrl+delete. It's actually worse due to it taking up more resources and becomes an issue if you need to restart the application)

- Mouse and keyboard support in Metro is still poor and apps have issues with M+KB support.

- You get thrown back and forth between Metro and desktop depending on what you're doing/trying to do. Read this review. If you want to have both a Metro and desktop app open at once then you're essentially switching between two operating systems.

- You still can't resize windows in Metro to the point where you can in the desktop. Setting windows side by side on a workspace and adjusting the sizes to your liking doesn't work in Metro. If you've got a Metro and a desktop app open then you're never going to see them on the same workspace. Have fun toggling.

- Metro apps behave differently and have different options than their desktop counterparts. IE for instance, is different in Metro and the desktop and has different options. For some of the more complicated ones you've got to do it in the desktop and if you want to switch to Metro, or from Metro > desktop, you have to start a new session. Talk about bolting two operating systems together. When you can't get your own software to work the same way in Metro and the desktop then what hope is there for anyone else...

- Everything is big and blocky. If you value your screen real estate then you might as well start planning to make your way to Apple and Linux.

- And the biggest issue of all: It was never meant for you, the desktop user, in the first place. If you haven't gotten that hint then I don't know what to tell you.