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Michigan to hold caucasus, Hillary objects... also objects to Florida "do-over"... heads explode

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
23,003
770
126

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/03/hillary_no_doover_in_florida.html

Hillary won't accept Florida or Michigan caucuses

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_pol...in_florida.html

quote:

I would not accept a caucus. I think that would be a great disservice to the 2 million people who turned out and voted. I think that they want their votes counted. And you know a lot of people would be disenfranchised because of the timing and whatever the particular rules were. This is really going to be a serious challenge for the Democratic Party because the voters in Michigan and Florida are the ones being hurt, and certainly with respect to Florida the Democrats were dragged into doing what they did by a Republican governor and a Republican Legislature. They didn't have any choice whatsoever. And I don't think that there should be any do-over or any kind of a second run in Florida. I think Florida should be seated.
Wait wait wait, she's 'concerned' about disenfranchised voters, but won't accept a do-over in Florida even though many people stayed home and did not vote because they thought their votes won't get counted??? HAHAHAHAHAA OK whatever :roll:

How can ANY Hildabeast voter justify this? That's absolutely ridiculous. Basically Hillary wants to have it her way and she could give a rat's ass about the 'will of the people'.
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,736
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Sounds like George Bush - My way or no one's way.

I'd tell her to stfu - Florida and Michigan both broke the rules over primaries. Everyone should be satisfied that they are being given a second chance (and even with that, I think they should still have only half their normal delegates to keep the punishment somewhat alive).
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
I have never hated Swillary. I've demonized her as much for fun as anything else. I think she is inferior to Obama, but she's no Satan.

That said, this was until she wanted votes to count in two states that had been told beforehand their votes would not count, period, no ifs or buts. The DNC tried to work with these states, they refused, held elections, were told that they were not going to count, and now since they took place before Hillary's campaign fell from grace, she insists not only to make these states count, but to count based on earlier votes and not a recount?

The ONLY fair thing is to have both candidates agree to rehold them, or not include them at all. I speak only truth and you cannot, no matter who you are, deny its legitimacy or superior command over reason.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
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<<< Clinton supporter, duh.

Florida should not be seated as is. This is pretty clear I think. I don't think the "people stayed home" argument has much merit though. Unless you can demonstrate that Obama supporters stayed home in larger numbers than Hillary voters, I think that's a non-issue. It was fair as far as it goes. No one campaigned, Obama had just won nearby SC overwhelmingly, everyone was on the ballot. But FL broke the rules, so if any future rules want to have any meaning, the DNC can't take the results as is and seat at the convention.

MI caucuses disadvantage her b/c she tends to win primaries and lose caucuses. Did you think she'd be happy about it? That said, what's she gonna do? So what if she doesn't accept it, I don't see how it's her call. The party will decide and she'll just have to deal.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
Gee....why would she want MI's previous votes to stand as they were on that day when Obama pulled his name off the ballot? I just can't figure that one out. :roll:
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,798
4,695
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Caucuses are not real elections, they are a joke.
All Hillary is saying is let's have a real vote, not people standing around in rooms.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
23,003
770
126
Originally posted by: senseamp
Caucuses are not real elections, they are a joke.
All Hillary is saying is let's have a real vote, not people standing around in rooms.
No, she's saying take the early results and have NO DO-OVER, even though most people stayed home and didn't vote because they were told their vote wouldn't count. And she has the nerve to say she cares about voters being disenfranchised :roll: :roll:

 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,798
4,695
126
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: senseamp
Caucuses are not real elections, they are a joke.
All Hillary is saying is let's have a real vote, not people standing around in rooms.
No, she's saying take the early results and have NO DO-OVER, even though most people stayed home and didn't vote because they were told their vote wouldn't count. And she has the nerve to say she cares about voters being disenfranchised :roll: :roll:
Well, she certainly should not accept a caucus.
Anonymous ballot is essential to democracy.
Also, there is no reason to revote in Florida, since everyone was on the ballot there.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
Caucuses are not real elections, they are a joke.
All Hillary is saying is let's have a real vote, not people standing around in rooms.
bl4ckfl4g told us that Morph would let us know, but thanks for being a stand in :)

 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,386
327
126
Hilary objects, introduces an alternate plan "Give Hilary free votes until she wins". She would also be willing to agree to changing the rules in the middle of the game so that any candidate with the last name Clinton automatically wins all remaining primaries with 100% of the vote.

I heard she would also agree to the creation of a new "Ultra delegate" if that delegate was Bill Clinton. The Ultra delegate's single vote would be equal to all other super delegates and traditional delegate votes, times 2.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,086
493
126
Originally posted by: Phokus

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/03/hillary_no_doover_in_florida.html

Hillary won't accept Florida or Michigan caucuses

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_pol...in_florida.html

quote:

I would not accept a caucus. I think that would be a great disservice to the 2 million people who turned out and voted. I think that they want their votes counted. And you know a lot of people would be disenfranchised because of the timing and whatever the particular rules were. This is really going to be a serious challenge for the Democratic Party because the voters in Michigan and Florida are the ones being hurt, and certainly with respect to Florida the Democrats were dragged into doing what they did by a Republican governor and a Republican Legislature. They didn't have any choice whatsoever. And I don't think that there should be any do-over or any kind of a second run in Florida. I think Florida should be seated.
Wait wait wait, she's 'concerned' about disenfranchised voters, but won't accept a do-over in Florida even though many people stayed home and did not vote because they thought their votes won't get counted??? HAHAHAHAHAA OK whatever :roll:

How can ANY Hildabeast voter justify this? That's absolutely ridiculous. Basically Hillary wants to have it her way and she could give a rat's ass about the 'will of the people'.

Why does this surprise you? This is their motto. Al Gore used it in 2000 when he only wanted democrat heavy districts recounted in the name of democracy.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,826
83
91
I'd rather MI and FL not get seated at all versus having these joke caucuses that aren't a real representation of anything the candidate is going to face in the GE.

why not just save money and give the votes straight to Obama?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,798
4,695
126
And GWB supporters wanted recount stopped and the first vote to count. Hillary also wants the first vote to count.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,712
3,518
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Phokus

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/03/hillary_no_doover_in_florida.html

Hillary won't accept Florida or Michigan caucuses

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_pol...in_florida.html

quote:

I would not accept a caucus. I think that would be a great disservice to the 2 million people who turned out and voted. I think that they want their votes counted. And you know a lot of people would be disenfranchised because of the timing and whatever the particular rules were. This is really going to be a serious challenge for the Democratic Party because the voters in Michigan and Florida are the ones being hurt, and certainly with respect to Florida the Democrats were dragged into doing what they did by a Republican governor and a Republican Legislature. They didn't have any choice whatsoever. And I don't think that there should be any do-over or any kind of a second run in Florida. I think Florida should be seated.
Wait wait wait, she's 'concerned' about disenfranchised voters, but won't accept a do-over in Florida even though many people stayed home and did not vote because they thought their votes won't get counted??? HAHAHAHAHAA OK whatever :roll:

How can ANY Hildabeast voter justify this? That's absolutely ridiculous. Basically Hillary wants to have it her way and she could give a rat's ass about the 'will of the people'.

Why does this surprise you? This is their motto. Al Gore used it in 2000 when he only wanted democrat heavy districts recounted in the name of democracy.
So in the name of Democracy the Supreme Coup votes for the actual loser 5 to 4.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,547
0
76
Originally posted by: senseamp
And GWB supporters wanted recount stopped and the first vote to count. Hillary also wants the first vote to count.
soooooo Hillary = GWB supporters? and that's a good thing?! OK, got it... :Q
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,712
3,518
126
Clinton is trying to steal the election and say she didn't, you know, have sex with the Democrats.

I think the slime from the Clintons is obvious enough for the party super delegates to step in and put an end to her campaign. It's time for the party leaders to speak and say enough.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
81
Originally posted by: Phokus
won't accept a do-over in Florida even though many people stayed home and did not vote because they thought their votes won't get counted???
Originally posted by: Phokus
No, she's saying take the early results and have NO DO-OVER, even though most people stayed home and didn't vote because they were told their vote wouldn't count. And she has the nerve to say she cares about voters being disenfranchised :roll: :roll:

So first it's "many people", then it's "most people"...next will it be "almost everyone"? Voter turnout was pretty high in florida actually:
http://www.npr.org/templates/s...y.php?storyId=18514724
Record Voter Turnout in Florida
Voting was brisk throughout the day. Even before primary day, more than 1 million Florida residents, or about 10 percent of all those eligible, participated through absentee ballots or early voting. (Florida is one of several states to allow early voting at select polling stations.)

In the last Florida GOP contest in 2000, 700,000 Republicans voted. This year, about 1.9 million did. Democratic turnout was also up dramatically from 2000 and 2004, with at least 1.7 million voting on that side.
*****************************


I'm sure some people didn't vote, but you have no evidence Obama supporters stayed home in larger numbers than Clinton voters. All evidence is this was a full and fair primary. It still shouldn't count, but your arguments are weak.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,712
3,518
126
Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Ridiculous. The idea that she would even argue to seat the Michigan delegates as-is is laughable.
I am going to have to actually see it to believe it. It does not seem possible. Hehe.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Clinton is trying to steal the election and say she didn't, you know, have sex with the Democrats.

I think the slime from the Clintons is obvious enough for the party super delegates to step in and put an end to her campaign. It's time for the party leaders to speak and say enough.
They can and they will, at the convention. Unless you think party leaders should be able to end a candidates campaign whenever they want?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,798
4,695
126
It's getting really lame. Let the Democrats nominate who they want, then I'll vote.
For me
Hillary >> McCain > Obama = 0
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,650
0
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
And GWB supporters wanted recount stopped and the first vote to count. Hillary also wants the first vote to count.
The first "vote" wasn't representative of the actual race. Obama, Edwards, Richardson and Biden pulled their names off of the ballot. And in FL, would you even waste your time when you are told up front that your vote is absolutely meaningless and will not count because your state delegates will not be allowed to represent at the national convention?

If you or Hillary were truly interested in the democratic process, then you would support only one of two positions:

1. Hold a new primary with ALL candidates on the ballot
2. Keep with the DNC's earlier ruling

There is no other option in the name of fairness. Unless of course you really don't care about fairness but are selfishly acting in your own interests and just doublespeaking your way around the circuit of reporters and cameras to pretend that you care.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
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Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
And in FL, would you even waste your time when you are told up front that your vote is absolutely meaningless and will not count because your state delegates will not be allowed to represent at the national convention?
See my post above.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,712
3,518
126
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: Phokus
won't accept a do-over in Florida even though many people stayed home and did not vote because they thought their votes won't get counted???
Originally posted by: Phokus
No, she's saying take the early results and have NO DO-OVER, even though most people stayed home and didn't vote because they were told their vote wouldn't count. And she has the nerve to say she cares about voters being disenfranchised :roll: :roll:

So first it's "many people", then it's "most people"...next will it be "almost everyone"? Voter turnout was pretty high in florida actually:
http://www.npr.org/templates/s...y.php?storyId=18514724
Record Voter Turnout in Florida
Voting was brisk throughout the day. Even before primary day, more than 1 million Florida residents, or about 10 percent of all those eligible, participated through absentee ballots or early voting. (Florida is one of several states to allow early voting at select polling stations.)

In the last Florida GOP contest in 2000, 700,000 Republicans voted. This year, about 1.9 million did. Democratic turnout was also up dramatically from 2000 and 2004, with at least 1.7 million voting on that side.
*****************************


I'm sure some people didn't vote, but you have no evidence Obama supporters stayed home in larger numbers than Clinton voters. All evidence is this was a full and fair primary. It still shouldn't count, but your arguments are weak.
I say we stop counting now that Hillary is ruining for Senator McCain by touting his experience. If the people of Florida knew then what they know now they would vote for Obama. So only new votes should count where Obama was on the ballot and none where he was not. No recount there. Rules should favor only my candidate and that's the way they should stay. Just sorry you picked the person running for herself rather than the one running for change. You have passion, if misplaced.
 

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