Michigan School District Allows Sikh Students to Wear Religious Dagger

[irishScott]

sure why not allow unloaded derringers to be worn by students as well.

I once brought in a flint-lock musket replica for a 4th grade History project. *shrug*

 

[shiner]

I'm going to start sending my kids to school with unloaded and barrel plugged guns and have them claim it is a religious thing.

 

[RedCOMET]

Well, I hope they sue the TSA in Federal cour for denying their child the right to enter a secured airport zone and say they infringed on his religious beliefs b/c of the dagger. It would be great if they used the School as an citation on why it should be allowed.

Better yet, they should sue [insert museum/ amusement park / other place] that tells them they don't want weapons on their grounds for the safety of others.

This was only step one for them.

 

[RedCOMET]

Nope, the kirpans you linked to would still be banned. You seem to have missed the part of having to meet certain criteria. If you had looked, the criteria are:

Starting Monday, January 31, 2011, baptized students of the Sikh faith will be allowed to wear the kirpan at school with the following conditions:

1. Any kirpan worn at school should be sewn inside a sheath in such a way that the blade cannot be removed from the sheath.
2. The blade of the kirpan is restricted in length to no more than two and one-fourth inches. This would take the object outside the scope of the Revised School Code’s definition of a knife constituting a dangerous weapon.
3. The blade of the kirpan must be dull.
4. The kirpan should not be worn on the outside of the clothing and should not be visible in any way.
5. It will not be the practice of staff members to conduct random searches for the possession of kirpans. However, students who violate any of the above will be subject to discipline including a prohibition on wearing the kirpan to school in the future.

From: http://www.pccs.k12.mi.us/node/703

With respect to criteria #3 on the list, the blade made be dull, but it still has one hell of a pointy end.

 

[highland145]

This guy should have argued he worshiped the Ink Pen Pellet God.

Andrew Mikel II admits it was a stupid thing to do. In December, bored and craving attention, the 14-year-old used a plastic tube to blow small plastic pellets at fellow students in Spotsylvania High School. In one lunch period, he scored three hits.

"What happened to Andrew Mikel is an example of how oppressive zero-tolerance policies have become," said John W. Whitehead, president of the institute. "School officials have developed a very dangerous mind-set that allows virtually no freedom for students, while at the same time criminalizing childish behavior."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/01/AR2011020104097.html

 

[dabuddha]

What's with the trend of NOT READING that's running rampant in this thread?

Like the schools have tons of money to now check every kirpan that comes into the buildings every single day? How about kids go to fucking school to get an education and leave all the extra shit at home? And this is coming from a Hindu whose best friend is a sardar (who also says the same thing)

 

[Train]

Like the schools have tons of money to now check every kirpan that comes into the buildings every single day? How about kids go to fucking school to get an education and leave all the extra shit at home? And this is coming from a Hindu whose best friend is a sardar (who also says the same thing)

Again, with regards to reading the thread... THERE WILL NOT BE SEARCHES.


And the school also doesn't have the money to search all the guns that are being concealed on students every day, what's your point?

 

[jlee]

Like the schools have tons of money to now check every kirpan that comes into the buildings every single day? How about kids go to fucking school to get an education and leave all the extra shit at home? And this is coming from a Hindu whose best friend is a sardar (who also says the same thing)

😕

That's not what I'm talking about. If you can't address my point directly, don't bother.

 

[dabuddha]

😕

That's not what I'm talking about. If you can't address my point directly, don't bother.

Ahhh you quoted the other poster who had posted the rules so I was addressing the rules. Perhaps you explain your point concisely.

Again, with regards to reading the thread... THERE WILL NOT BE SEARCHES.


And the school also doesn't have the money to search all the guns that are being concealed on students every day, what's your point?

So why'd they waste so much money on committees and meetings to come up with rules that really can't be enforced? The existing rules say no weapons (and they define what a weapon is). Should have stuck with that and used the money wasted on new books instead.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Ahhh you quoted the other poster who had posted the rules so I was addressing the rules. Perhaps you explain your point concisely.




So why'd they waste so much money on committees and meetings to come up with rules that really can't be enforced? The existing rules say no weapons (and they define what a weapon is). Should have stuck with that and used the money wasted on new books instead.

According to the rules, the "no weapons" rule still applies, a two and a half inch dull blade attatched permanently to it's sheath is not a weapon any more than a house key is a weapon.

But don't read, whatever you do, DO NOT READ! You'll lose all that outrage very quickly and then what would you do?

Now, the rules are being enforced as much as all other rules of "no weapons" are being enforced are they not?

You wouldn't happen to be of Pakistani heritage, would you?

 

[Train]

So why'd they waste so much money on committees and meetings to come up with rules

Do the people who sit on school boards and work in the school admin get paid on a per issue basis? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no, they are all salaried. No money was wasted clarifying the rules.

that really can't be enforced?

They CAN be enforced. YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IF YOU READ THE THREAD!!!

The existing rules say no weapons (and they define what a weapon is). Should have stuck with that and used the money wasted on new books instead.

But back to the same point... they don't seach the kids for weapons as is... get it?

Holy shit dude

 

[dabuddha]

According to the rules, the "no weapons" rule still applies, a two and a half inch dull blade attatched permanently to it's sheath is not a weapon any more than a house key is a weapon.

But don't read, whatever you do, DO NOT READ! You'll lose all that outrage very quickly and then what would you do?

Now, the rules are being enforced as much as all other rules of "no weapons" are being enforced are they not?

You wouldn't happen to be of Pakistani heritage, would you?

That's funny considering if you had read my posts, you woulda seen I said I was hindu. And, of course, you missed my point entirely. I'm outraged at the amount of money that was wasted (you know the "officials" that got together to come up with these rules didn't do so on their own time) on coming up with this completely useless rule. Why was it even considered. You go to school to get a fucking education, period. Guns, knives, bayonets, halberds, etc should have no place in a school period. I came up with that idea within 10 seconds.

 

[dabuddha]

Do the people who sit on school boards and work in the school admin get paid on a per issue basis? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no, they are all salaried. No money was wasted clarifying the rules.

They CAN be enforced. YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IF YOU READ THE THREAD!!!

But back to the same point... they don't seach the kids for weapons as is... get it?

Holy shit dude

They are salaried, that is correct. And for most of them, they work 40 hour weeks. It doesn't mean that it isn't a waste of money (You do realize that time == money, right?) . Let's say this "committee" spent 40 work hours total in coming up with this "resolution." And lets say that there are 10 members on this "committee." So now we're talking 400 hours of time that was spent on coming up with this. Time that could have been spent elsewhere.

Perhaps the folks misunderstood me, I don't give a shit about the new "policy" honestly, just about the time/money wasted on coming up with something that really has no business with the school system.

 

[Colt45]

kinda related, i'm in a rush so I can't say much about it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...n-barred-for-carrying-kirpans/article1874725/

 

[kami333]

With respect to criteria #3 on the list, the blade made be dull, but it still has one hell of a pointy end.

#3 is pointless in it's entirety since #1 would have to be violated for dull/sharp/pointed to matter. It was probably put in there just to appease some "But it's still sharp!!! Think of the kids!!!" types.

They are salaried, that is correct. And for most of them, they work 40 hour weeks. It doesn't mean that it isn't a waste of money (You do realize that time == money, right?) . Let's say this "committee" spent 40 work hours total in coming up with this "resolution." And lets say that there are 10 members on this "committee." So now we're talking 400 hours of time that was spent on coming up with this. Time that could have been spent elsewhere.

Perhaps the folks misunderstood me, I don't give a shit about the new "policy" honestly, just about the time/money wasted on coming up with something that really has no business with the school system.

While I do agree with you, it's still cheaper than the cost of a trial.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

That's funny considering if you had read my posts, you woulda seen I said I was hindu. And, of course, you missed my point entirely. I'm outraged at the amount of money that was wasted (you know the "officials" that got together to come up with these rules didn't do so on their own time) on coming up with this completely useless rule. Why was it even considered. You go to school to get a fucking education, period. Guns, knives, bayonets, halberds, etc should have no place in a school period. I came up with that idea within 10 seconds.

So what, there are beloved patriot Hindus out there, are there not? You evaded my question.

You're actually a practicing Hindu?

As someone else pointed out, these officials aren't paid on a per issue basis so it doesn't matter, they are doing the job they are being paid to do.

How about housekeys? They can be up to 2.5 inches long and sharper than a dull blade, are they allowed to have housekeys?

Read the fucking rules, it's a two and a half inch long blade max, dull, sown into the sheet, what the FUCK are they going to do with that that you can't do worse by using a rock on the ground?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Twigs can be pointy, better search the students for twigs!

 

[halik]

I'm sure I could hurt someone with that.

What the fuck...

This is the same school that had a talk with Mr Rae about brining a BB gun to school for a physics demo.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/education/1962064/detail.html

<- went to plymouth canton. Not a good school by any means.

 

[silverpig]

I grew up in an area near Vancouver that had a lot of sikhs in it. I think now my elementary school is about 60-70&#37; sikh and my old high school is a little less. It wasn't the greatest neighbourhood (Canadian terms...) and there were the standard fights and some drugs and stuff that goes with going to school.

Never once was a kirpan drawn or used, and a lot of kids carried them. They are dull as shit, are worn well tucked away under all your clothes, and are actually tied into their sheaths. Drawing one would be almost equivalent to pulling a ballpoint pen out of your ass in a fight. Drop pants, drop underpants, reach in...

You could easily do as much damage with a large-ish crucifix from a necklace, or use the chain of a necklace as a garrotte. The butter knives in the cafeteria are sharper and much easier to access.

I asked a friend of mine if I could see his kirpan back then. He said it was under his undershirt, tied to his body, and the kirpan was tied into its sheath. He couldn't take it out even if he wanted to, and wasn't permitted to take it out to just show around as that was the doctrine.

Generally, if they're religious enough to carry the kirpan, they're religious enough to not ever draw the thing.

 

[Train]

They are salaried, that is correct. And for most of them, they work 40 hour weeks. It doesn't mean that it isn't a waste of money (You do realize that time == money, right?) . Let's say this "committee" spent 40 work hours total in coming up with this "resolution." And lets say that there are 10 members on this "committee." So now we're talking 400 hours of time that was spent on coming up with this. Time that could have been spent elsewhere.

Perhaps the folks misunderstood me, I don't give a shit about the new "policy" honestly, just about the time/money wasted on coming up with something that really has no business with the school system.

Well I'm gonna go out on another limb.. and assume they didn't just decide to make a policy on kirpans out of the blue... someone made it an issue. And with the horendous amounts of money schools have been held accounable for recently, addressing the issue and making a policy is infinitely more affordable for the school. All it would take is one ACLU lawsuit, or one concerned parent lawsuit... and even if the school won, they could be out millions, not a few hours of salaried employee's time.

 

[tcsenter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livingston,_California

http://openjurist.org/36/f3d/1102/cheema-v-h-thompson