See post above. You are calling the behavior correct, but that doesn't mean the behavior of the polls are legitimate.
See post above. You are calling the behavior correct, but that doesn't mean the behavior of the polls are legitimate.
I would like to see the actual statistics. I think it happens enough to warrant a playoff system.
Spineshank
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 7,728
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Every team has their shot all year long. Texas had theirs and lost so did USC when they lost to Oregon State, and etc, etc. The only team right now we can say didnt have a shot is Boise State.
Bad argument. Some teams play tougher schedules all year. Look at tough conferences where 4-5 teams are legitimately good and others who are very solid. Those are hard schedules to win all the games in even if the team is really good. Compare that to a team that plays 3 other good teams and then a bunch of also-rans. Who has the better shot to run the table? Does that make them the better team?
It would be more like if the Seahawks beat the Steelers last year in the regular season, but the Steelers ended up triumphant in the Super Bowl. No clusterf*ck by any means.
Of course Mich should be #2
1. USC lost to a freaking unranked team.
2. Florida almost loses most games and got owned to a 2 loss auburn.
3. Arkansas got blown out by USC
4. ND got throttled by Mich at home.
5. Michigan gave ND and Wisconsin their only losses, killed ND on the road, and lost by 3 points to a #1 team who has been dominating all year. Michigan's loss was easily the most respectable and closest out of all the 1 loss contenders.
How does this not make sense? Michigan IS the second best team in the country, none of the other one loss teams can even touch them or would be able to beat them if they had a match. Hell, I even know some USC fans who would rather go to Rose Bowl just because they know OSU would kill them.
1. USC lost to a freaking unranked team.
2. Florida almost loses most games and got owned to a 2 loss auburn.
3. Arkansas got blown out by USC
4. ND got throttled by Mich at home.
5. Michigan gave ND and Wisconsin their only losses, killed ND on the road, and lost by 3 points to a #1 team who has been dominating all year. Michigan's loss was easily the most respectable and closest out of all the 1 loss contenders.
How does this not make sense? Michigan IS the second best team in the country, none of the other one loss teams can even touch them or would be able to beat them if they had a match. Hell, I even know some USC fans who would rather go to Rose Bowl just because they know OSU would kill them.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Bleh, if these guys play each other again I hope the entire country, outside of Big 10 country, keeps their TV sets tuned to something else. Let the Big 10 fans watch their glorified conference championship and maybe the idiots upstairs will give us a freaking playoff. I will actually carry my boycott into next season because frankly the BCS has finally pissed me off enough to say to hell with it all.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
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Without the BCS all of the major bowls would have equal importance if OSU lost since there are no other undefeated teams that have a chance.
This is a travesty. For one, it isn't remotely fair to OSU. They beat Michigan, why should Michigan get the chance to take a mulligan? Second, why should they get a shot at the national title when they can't win their own conference? Yes, this same situation could occur with a playoff, but at least with a playoff other teams get a shot at #1 too. So it's NOT the same.
Yes, OSU and Michigan may well be the best two teams in the nation (despite the utter lack of defense displayed last night), but OSU should now prove it against another team in the title game.
Not true. Are you too young to remember anything before the BCS? There was no "title game" before the BCS. Without the BCS OSU and USC would now be playing in the Rose bowl for at least a share of the title.
Yes, OSU and Michigan may well be the best two teams in the nation (despite the utter lack of defense displayed last night), but OSU should now prove it against another team in the title game.
Not true. Are you too young to remember anything before the BCS? There was no "title game" before the BCS. Without the BCS OSU and USC would now be playing in the Rose bowl for at least a share of the title.
Perhaps you don't remember Michigan's split championship...
Without the BCS, USC would be playing Ohio State in the Rose Bowl.
Your last point is completely subjective and your opinion? How do you know this? You don't.
1) Yes we know, but they have also beaten quite a few ranked ones.
2) Fla plays in a strong conference. I don't think they are top 5 but hey they won when they needed to to be in the running. They are a good team.
3) Arkansas is playing much better ball now. This is a major problem with the BCS, timing of losses and wins. Teams do get better or worse during the season and having 1 loss (or big win) affect the entire chance at a NC is bogus.
4) Yep. They have won since, and if they beat USC, then you should say they are a legit NC contender.
5) Yes we know they played several tough games. Have they played as many as some other teams? No. (see my post above). However, Mich is a great team and they played very well against most likely the best team in the nation.
Very good points, I agree with most of what you have been saying. The problem is that we are working with a very flawed system. I'm rather trying to say which teams should be the highest under BCS. Should Arkansas's loss be underweighed? Definently! The problem is that under these rules, it's not going to happen. As for ND? Sorry, even if they win out Michigan killed them at home. I really don't think you can justify them in the NC.
As for now, here's the striking order of the NC game-
USC>Florida=Michigan,ND, Ark etc
Essentially, if USC wins out, they go. Their schedule is too strong to deny it to them, even if Michigan has been playing more consistency (but for now, Michigan is definently the deserving #2 spot in BCS). If florida wins out they have to do it with some style in order to make up the points between them and Michigan. I don't think any other team is within striking distance, even if they won out their one blow out loss really ruins their chances.
And I agree with you on my final point, my arguement is very subjective, but I stand by it. I've watched all the major contenders play and have decided that Ohio State and Michigan are head and shoulders above the rest. Once again, this all comes back to playoffs. Simply institute a top 16 playoff system and all this arguing will fly straight out a window. In fact, an OSU and Mich rematch is only going to help to enforce how much we need this.
i would like to see someone right now, convincingly give me ONE team that could possibly stop tOSU.
i can name one
UofM
other than that?
there is no other team who has the weapons, the capabilities, the playmakers, or special teams to stop tOSU.
In order to stop tOSU you have to be able to keep up with them, and not one team other than UofM can.
You have to be able to run, and pass, if you let OSU key in on one aspect of your game, you are royally ass raped. tOSU linebackers and secondary is top notch, you dont get many chances.
UofM was close because of oppurtunities, they scored the ONLY points against OSU on turnovers.
i honestly dont like second chances, dont think you should get them in college sports.
but i dont see another team who could come close
it would be 43-15 OSU vs USC.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
You might be right. But let's face it, the only reason we are having this discussion is because of Troy Smith's inability to hold the ball when no one is around him. Michigan was given two golden opportunities by doing NOTHING. It would be one thing if Michigan had caused those two fumbles and I would actually give them more credit. IMHO that game was nowhere near as close as the score indicated. OSU kept it close by throwing the ball on the ground on their own accord.
Troy Smith had nothing to do with those two fumbles...
when your center cant snap the ball (one was high, the other he hit his own leg with) then its your centers fault.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
On the first one he was running to the side before the ball got to him. Fault is debatable there I guess.
On the second one it was a bad exchange and instead of jumping on the ball and taking the down he decided to lean forward and try to pick it up. Initially the center's fault but he should know better than to try to pick that thing up.
Fault doesn't really matter I guess. The fact is they were unforced and kept Michigan around.
What really irks me is all this talk about Style Points ...it's the new catch phrase this year when
evaluating one loss teams and their chances of overtaking Michigan. It's not good enough to win a game
now, now you have to win with style. What complete BS - last time i looked i didn't see a total for
Style Points on the scoreboard.
Until we get a playoff system it's all speculation and chance as to who ends up #1... but that seems to be
the way the media and the NCAA like it.
Go Gators! (who get a chance to win their title on the field, as it should be!!) (even if it is artificial turf)
evaluating one loss teams and their chances of overtaking Michigan. It's not good enough to win a game
now, now you have to win with style. What complete BS - last time i looked i didn't see a total for
Style Points on the scoreboard.
Until we get a playoff system it's all speculation and chance as to who ends up #1... but that seems to be
the way the media and the NCAA like it.
Go Gators! (who get a chance to win their title on the field, as it should be!!) (even if it is artificial turf)
Honestly, who really knows? Maybe you're right, but maybe not. OSU played Texas the first game of the season when Texas was basically throwing a freshman QB into the fire. Who else have they played? The Big Ten is crap as a whole. That's why Wisconsin is barely even getting any recognition even though they only have 1 loss. Everyone acts like it's a foregone conclusion they are the best in the nation when that's hardly been proven. The teams I saw last night had great offenses, but the defenses were shredded. OSU couldn't stop the run at all. Again, maybe they are the best, but that's why someone else should play OSU in the NC game. Michigan had their shot at #1 and they lost. Let someone else play OSU. If they beat them then OSU is #1 and if Michigan wins their bowl they are #2. But Michigan shouldn't get a another crack at OSU because it's not fair to OSU and nor is it fair to any of the other 1 loss teams out there from other conferences.
You guys are arguing over the details; the unarguable point is that the two fumbles were unforced and offered gift-wrapped points to the Wolverines. Troy's INT was the only turnover you could give any credit to the Wolverines. Troy did try to force it but he did hit his receiver, however it bounced off and was eventually intercepted due to good coverage.
But the clear fact is that the Wolverines scored 10 points off of those turnovers and prevented who knows how many Buckeye points (as the Wolverines never really showed they could stop the Buckeye offense). The game would have been a blow out without those two unforced errors.
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