RelaxTheMind
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- Oct 15, 2002
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Don Vito Corleone
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- Feb 10, 2000
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As I said above, child molesters very frequently use adult pornography to groom children for molestation.
You do know there are international laws dealing with this under which he would be prosecuted by the US if caught doing that in another country.
Don Vito Corleone
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He is a Mormon (in fact his parents were prominent members of the LDS Church in Utah - my understanding is that he was the President of the LDS Church of Utah), and he confessed to his LDS Bishop. To his credit, the Bishop apparently warned him that he might be obligated by state law to turn him in, and told him the only chance for his soul was to confess to someone in a position of authority. I believe he's since been excommunicated from the Mormon church.
He made only a very generic confession to his commander, but he told his daughter it would be OK to tell her mom the truth, and after that we got what felt like a neverending flow of ghastly information, bit by bit, as she offered up new tidbits. There are at least 100 facets of that case that make me want to cry, and made me want to kill him, and it was uncanny the way we'd hear about some dreadful new detail on Friday afternoons, week after week.
Don Vito Corleone
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Actually, probably not. The US only has jurisdiction over offenses committed on US soil, so unless he happened to do this on an American military installation, the grounds of an embassy, or something similar, we'd be without jurisdiction. The only exception I can think of that's applicable to civilians is the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000 (actually I was involved in facilitating the first-ever case brought under this law), which wouldn't apply to Michael.
grooming would be a tactic used by hardcore, serial child molesters, I would have thought. Jackson certainly doesn't fit into that category. what is the likelihood that somone with no or minor experience in abusing children would engage in sophisticated grooming strategies?
Don Vito Corleone
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Not at all. It's not really a sophisticated tactic, if you think about it - it's just a way to introduce the topic of sex, and get the child sexually stimulated in a nonthreatening way.
I don't see MJ's actions as those of a garden-variety child molester, but more akin to the kinds of sexual activities children have with one another. If you haven't read it, I strongly recommend you look at the 1993 complaint against him for an illustration. As far as I can see, whether he's guilty or not, MJ is an emotionally stunted weirdo who doesn't appear to have matured past age 12 or so. In that context, I could see his use of pornography as something similar to what kids do prior to engaging in experimental sexual activity.
Again, I don't have a strong sense for whether he's guilty, but I lean toward believing he probably is.
I suspect that for every case abuse that is prosecuted, there are 5 or 10 or more similar cases that go unreported. The details listed in the clipping you posted are very similar to the abuse experienced by an aquaintance of mine. She was raped by her father from around age 3 thru to age 16 (when she left home). Most of the abuse took place in the Philippines. The father was a school principle at a christian missionary school in that country. It appears that he was abusing numbers of children in the school, in addition to his daughter and possibly his son. Also, apparently, there were all sorts of depraved, sick abuse acts committed with animals and children. Stuff you wouldn't believe. This man returned to Australia, and is still in a position where he has some access to children on a daily basis. He has never been charged by the police. After his children left puberty, he separated from his wife, and re-marred to a lady with a couple of pre-pubesent kids. The behavior of these children supposedly underwent a dramatic change after the guy moved into the household. Supposedly community services has conducted an investigation re: these children, and concluded that no abuse is currently taking place. So who knows. Altho the guy has never been charged with molesting children, he has been arrested for some odd sexual crimes, for example he was apprehended by police masturbating on a busy highway (fixing the engine of his car while almost completely naked). The most sickening thing about this tale is the response of the mother when this girl (or young woman, now) began to speak about the abuse - the mother basically sided with the father, and it was the daughter essentially forced to leave home, not the father. The other sickening thing was the response of the christian community church (which the family was a part of), the members of the church basically rejected and excluded this young woman when she spoke about the abuse.
Maybe you weren't the pasty geek in middle school.... I WAS so if anyone was being insulted by my post it's me. The cruelty of children was astounding.... maybe you grew up somewhere pristine and clear of that cruelty.... I didnt. And the attitude towards MJ reeks of that same insidious joy at the weirdness of someone different that I experienced as a total geek in middle school.
-Max
Don Vito Corleone
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There is a MAJOR difference, however. Most of us, in junior high, are pretty clueless about who we are and how we define ourselves. We are bound by our genes and our hormones, and sometimes the outcome isn't pretty. Michael Jackson, however, is a man in his forties. He has (or at least has had) all the money on earth, boundless fame, and incredible talent. He's been one of the most famous people on the planet for 30 years.
In spite of the tremendous gifts he's been given, MJ has chosen to make himself a freak. He has, through dozens of plastic surgeries, morphed from a handsome young black man into a strange-looking white woman, then into an outright monster, without enough cartilage to support a proper nose (yet he lies and says he hasn't had these operations). He speaks publically in a weird, high-pitched voice (apparently his friends and family know his real voice is much deeper). He walks around in what can charitably be referred to as costumes, even when he's in court, faced with spending the rest of his life in prison.
He has three young children, who he's given bizarre names and who he forces to walk around veiled.
He has spent much of his adult life living in a Peter Pan-themed amusement park, surrouded by hundreds of other people's children. Well into middle age, he still shares his bed with young boys. Even after he's sued for molestation, and paid $15,000,000 to settle the suit, he continues to sleep with young boys.
In short, he is one strange ranger. He has elected to make himself a freak in the eyes of the public. None of this means he deserves to be presumed guilty, but he's earned the skepticism and the strange looks. To compare him to an awkward 13-year-old denies him the responsibility that comes with being an adult.
1)People have always been curious about Micheal Jackson. True, just because you're very different than other people doesn't mean you're a child molester. The fact is you have to admit the guy is plain fvcking werid.
2) There is plenty of evidence to suggest Micheal was abused as a child. He was exposed to sex at a early age and was with his brothers when they brough there "groupies" over to the house.
3)His father was an extremely violent man and Micheal was afraid to death of him. Micheal hated the fact that his nose looked very simaler to his fathers and this is the reason he had facial surgery.
4)The previous 1993 case with the 15 Million Dollar settlement. I am no expert on lawyers, but wouldn't it be much cheaper than 15 for some laywers?
5)Micheal sleeps with the kids, not only that. The kids see him naked. The kids that stayed at the Ranch where able to idenifity him by his "BarberPole". Micheal Jackson for whatever ever reason, bleeches his own skin. This gives his penis a "BarberPole" look when it is erect. Jackson himself does a very poor job at defending his reasons when sleeping with boys. Why the hell do these kids know what Micheal Jackson's Johnson looks like?
6)The rumors of him giving alcholol to a underage child with medical problems and calling it "Jesus Juice". Micheal is NOT a doctor.
7)Some of the porn that was found was infact playboy and penthouse. Kids report having access to this. Why the hell do kids have access to this?
8)Hung on of his kids off a balcony in Germany. What the f*** is wrong with him?
In my personal opinion. Micheal may not have abused this particular kid, but it would not surprise me if he has abused someone else.
2) There is plenty of evidence to suggest Micheal was abused as a child. He was exposed to sex at a early age and was with his brothers when they brough there "groupies" over to the house.
3)His father was an extremely violent man and Micheal was afraid to death of him. Micheal hated the fact that his nose looked very simaler to his fathers and this is the reason he had facial surgery.
4)The previous 1993 case with the 15 Million Dollar settlement. I am no expert on lawyers, but wouldn't it be much cheaper than 15 for some laywers?
5)Micheal sleeps with the kids, not only that. The kids see him naked. The kids that stayed at the Ranch where able to idenifity him by his "BarberPole". Micheal Jackson for whatever ever reason, bleeches his own skin. This gives his penis a "BarberPole" look when it is erect. Jackson himself does a very poor job at defending his reasons when sleeping with boys. Why the hell do these kids know what Micheal Jackson's Johnson looks like?
6)The rumors of him giving alcholol to a underage child with medical problems and calling it "Jesus Juice". Micheal is NOT a doctor.
7)Some of the porn that was found was infact playboy and penthouse. Kids report having access to this. Why the hell do kids have access to this?
8)Hung on of his kids off a balcony in Germany. What the f*** is wrong with him?
In my personal opinion. Micheal may not have abused this particular kid, but it would not surprise me if he has abused someone else.
shilala
Lifer
- Oct 5, 2004
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I don't think Michael is the picture of the child molester we think of when we hear the term. I think he's flat out goofy. I get the sense that he thinks he's the same age as these kids and gets the same thrill of sexual exploration that kids get at a young age.
I don't think his aim was ever to have sex with these kids, and I think he truly thinks what he's done is okay because he thinks he's a little kid.
I absolutely believe he feels up little kids.
I don't think his aim was ever to have sex with these kids, and I think he truly thinks what he's done is okay because he thinks he's a little kid.
I absolutely believe he feels up little kids.
Personally, I think he's a closet homosexsual.
He was abused as a child and there's evidence to suggest that it may have been sexsual.
He was thrown into a world of fame and admitting he was gay would have destroyed his career. Not to mention his father would have more than likely killed him.
Just my 2 Cents... Take it with a grain of salt...
i suspect he is guilty.... was too many people saying that he molested him. and what the hell was jackson thinking when he went on tv and said it was ok for grown men to sleep with little boys in the same bed (men not being their father)?
Wasn't the Jackson family Jehovah's Witness when they were kids? I could of swore I heard that before.
The whole family are still JW's, as far as I know.
As far as thinking he's guilty or not, this case sounds a lot like what happened to a friend of mine who was molested by his cousin, an Orthodox, not Catholic, priest about 30 years ago.
This was a second cousin, who had only met my friend's parents when they were in the 20's and before my friend was born. Well, he gets transferred to the local area, and starts coming over, more and more often. My friend was about 12 at this time, and was kind of miserable, to be honest. There were 4 older kids, and he got picked on by them, along with a younger sister who tormented him too. There was a last, seventh kid, a boy who was about 3, too young to be of interest.
At first, he took all the younger kids out, including the girl, but he soon zeroed in on, let's call him "George", and started taking him to dinner, movies, etc. This was around 1970 and the molesting thing was off the charts, it just was unthinkable. One day, he asked if he could take George with him to New York, to visit relatives and "let him have some fun". His parents agreed, and off they went. Later on, George would tell that that was the first time "Things got weird". The first night, the cousin bought some porn, and they looked at it together. Nothing happened other than that, but apparently it felt odd to my friend. The next night, he bought a bottle of vodka, and a bottle of scotch, and some 7UP and Coke too. He gave my friend enough to get him drunk, and still, nothing really happened, except the cousin told him several times "what a great looking kid he was", and that he wished he looked like him. Just kind of odd, but my friend was drunk for the first time, and was too loaded to really care. The next night, they stayed for dinner at a relative's house and got back so late they both just plopped into bed and fell asleep.
Then the last night they were there, it finally happend. They had gone out to dinner with another relative and his wife, and got back to the hotel early. They both drank and my friend passed out and when he woke up, he was getting "a hand job". He jumped up and yelled at him, and the cousin cried and said he was sorry, etc, but he was lonely...
After they came home, he didn't want to do anything with the cousin, but was almost forced to by his parents, as they thought the cousin was a "good person to have him hang around with". His father had given the cousin a SOLID GOLD cross that his father, a priest had received 30 years earlier just before the trip to NY. That thing had to weigh 3 or 4 pounds, easy. So he kept quiet, and went with him to dinner again, etc. He never made any kind of move, and neither one mentioned what happened at all.
A few months later, the cousin wanted to take him to Fla, for some sort of "youth conference" and he didn't want to go. He somehow convinced his older brother, who would have probably kicked the crap out of the cousin if he tried to pull anything like he did in NY to go instead. The cousin wasn't happy about it, but what could he say? It went ok, and the brother "Gary" just said the cousin was "boring", and that was about it.
My friend got his driver's liscense at 16, and his parents bought the cousin's car for him, and instnstly, the cousin wants to go to Chicago to get his new car from another relative who was a dealer. My friend was kind of forced to go, and that night, the cousin finally made his move, after convincing George to try a Quallude (a kind of sleeping pill) after having a couple of shots of booze before that. He fell asleep, and when he work up, the cousin was doing him orally. He slugged him in the face, and got into his car and drove back home, never saying a thing about it.
After that night. He refused to go anywhere with him, but still said nothing, and really became miserable until he joined the Air Force at 18 and went to Korea. We all wondered what he was so miserable about, and why he started drinking a lot.
Nobody knew what happened, and he told no one. A few years ago, the cousin was arrested for doing pretty much the same thing with a 14 year old kid, also a relative. When he was on trial, the victims showed up, one after another. My friend still said nothing to anyone here. His mother thought the charges were bogus, and after the cousin was found guilty, she was having dinner with George and his wife and baby, and he finally blurts out, "He did it to me too, I went up there and testified against him!" All hell broke loose soon after, someone, another relative, saw George testifying, and the word spread to all the family members that he had testifed and half thought it was a good thing, and half said, some of them to his face, that he was a liar.
The cousin is in jail now, he's got a 15-30 year sentence for the last kid, and they are putting him on trial for another molestation, this one of a kid that attended his church.
The kid tried to kill himself when word got out, and it's going to be ugly at this trial.
So I still don't know if MJ is guilty, but it (the story) sounds right, and wouldn't shock me if he goes away...for a long time. I don't think he will be able to take prison, even if in isolation. We should know fairly soon....
As far as thinking he's guilty or not, this case sounds a lot like what happened to a friend of mine who was molested by his cousin, an Orthodox, not Catholic, priest about 30 years ago.
This was a second cousin, who had only met my friend's parents when they were in the 20's and before my friend was born. Well, he gets transferred to the local area, and starts coming over, more and more often. My friend was about 12 at this time, and was kind of miserable, to be honest. There were 4 older kids, and he got picked on by them, along with a younger sister who tormented him too. There was a last, seventh kid, a boy who was about 3, too young to be of interest.
At first, he took all the younger kids out, including the girl, but he soon zeroed in on, let's call him "George", and started taking him to dinner, movies, etc. This was around 1970 and the molesting thing was off the charts, it just was unthinkable. One day, he asked if he could take George with him to New York, to visit relatives and "let him have some fun". His parents agreed, and off they went. Later on, George would tell that that was the first time "Things got weird". The first night, the cousin bought some porn, and they looked at it together. Nothing happened other than that, but apparently it felt odd to my friend. The next night, he bought a bottle of vodka, and a bottle of scotch, and some 7UP and Coke too. He gave my friend enough to get him drunk, and still, nothing really happened, except the cousin told him several times "what a great looking kid he was", and that he wished he looked like him. Just kind of odd, but my friend was drunk for the first time, and was too loaded to really care. The next night, they stayed for dinner at a relative's house and got back so late they both just plopped into bed and fell asleep.
Then the last night they were there, it finally happend. They had gone out to dinner with another relative and his wife, and got back to the hotel early. They both drank and my friend passed out and when he woke up, he was getting "a hand job". He jumped up and yelled at him, and the cousin cried and said he was sorry, etc, but he was lonely...
After they came home, he didn't want to do anything with the cousin, but was almost forced to by his parents, as they thought the cousin was a "good person to have him hang around with". His father had given the cousin a SOLID GOLD cross that his father, a priest had received 30 years earlier just before the trip to NY. That thing had to weigh 3 or 4 pounds, easy. So he kept quiet, and went with him to dinner again, etc. He never made any kind of move, and neither one mentioned what happened at all.
A few months later, the cousin wanted to take him to Fla, for some sort of "youth conference" and he didn't want to go. He somehow convinced his older brother, who would have probably kicked the crap out of the cousin if he tried to pull anything like he did in NY to go instead. The cousin wasn't happy about it, but what could he say? It went ok, and the brother "Gary" just said the cousin was "boring", and that was about it.
My friend got his driver's liscense at 16, and his parents bought the cousin's car for him, and instnstly, the cousin wants to go to Chicago to get his new car from another relative who was a dealer. My friend was kind of forced to go, and that night, the cousin finally made his move, after convincing George to try a Quallude (a kind of sleeping pill) after having a couple of shots of booze before that. He fell asleep, and when he work up, the cousin was doing him orally. He slugged him in the face, and got into his car and drove back home, never saying a thing about it.
After that night. He refused to go anywhere with him, but still said nothing, and really became miserable until he joined the Air Force at 18 and went to Korea. We all wondered what he was so miserable about, and why he started drinking a lot.
Nobody knew what happened, and he told no one. A few years ago, the cousin was arrested for doing pretty much the same thing with a 14 year old kid, also a relative. When he was on trial, the victims showed up, one after another. My friend still said nothing to anyone here. His mother thought the charges were bogus, and after the cousin was found guilty, she was having dinner with George and his wife and baby, and he finally blurts out, "He did it to me too, I went up there and testified against him!" All hell broke loose soon after, someone, another relative, saw George testifying, and the word spread to all the family members that he had testifed and half thought it was a good thing, and half said, some of them to his face, that he was a liar.
The cousin is in jail now, he's got a 15-30 year sentence for the last kid, and they are putting him on trial for another molestation, this one of a kid that attended his church.
The kid tried to kill himself when word got out, and it's going to be ugly at this trial.
So I still don't know if MJ is guilty, but it (the story) sounds right, and wouldn't shock me if he goes away...for a long time. I don't think he will be able to take prison, even if in isolation. We should know fairly soon....
If he was "gay" he would be having sex with men, not boys. It's hardly unusual for a celebrity to be secretly gay. See George Michael, Elton John, Boy George, Liberace, Freddie Mercury, blah blah. All of these gay men were fvcking other men before they came out of the closet, they weren't feeling up teen boys.
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