MI and FL governors call for their voters to be counted

[M0RPH]

One way or another, the voters in Florida and Michigan are going to have their say in this election. As it should be.

When they DNC imposed the penalties on these states, they never anticipated that it would be a deciding factor in the nomination. Now they will realize that they need to do the right thing and let these millions of voters have their voice.

Now the governors from these states are demanding that their voters are counted.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.co...guvs_seat_our_del.html

The following is the joint statement released by the governors:

?The right to vote is at the very foundation of our democracy. This primary season, voters have turned out in record numbers to exercise that right, and it is reprehensible that anyone would seek to silence the voices of 5,163,271 Americans. It is intolerable that the national political parties have denied the citizens of Michigan and Florida their votes and voices at their respective national conventions.

According to the DNC and RNC, Florida and Michigan have violated party rules by moving up their primaries. Today, we each will call upon our respective state and national party chairs to resolve this matter and to ensure that the voters of Michigan and Florida are full participants in the formal selection of their parties' nominees. We must restore the rights of the more than 5 million voters whose voices have been silenced.?

 

[Farang]

A Republican potential VP and a Clinton supporter both ask for MI and FL to be counted. This is news?

 

[EagleKeeper]

So let them hold a proper primary NOW to settle the issue. The state Dem Party can pay for the costs.

Had they actually obeyed the rules, they would be in a powerful position (where they intended) - jumping the gun actually hurt them twice.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Had they actually obeyed the rules, they would be in a powerful position (where they intended) - jumping the gun actually hurt them twice.

Maybe so, but you don't penalize millions of voters for a decision made by a few state party organizers.

 

[palehorse]

so much for established rules and deserved consequences... :roll:

 

[getbush]

The votes should absolutely NOT count now after the fact if only because the actual voting took place under the pretense that the votes would not matter anyway. A lot of people probably stayed home.

 

[nageov3t]

Howard Dean has made such a clusterfuck of this I'm almost grateful that Kerry beat him like a redheaded stepchild in '04.

I could see a case for Florida -- all relevant names were on the ballot, neither campaign campaigned in the state.

MI's a different story, though. I wish Obama hadn't been such a pussy and kept his name on the ballot. did that one pander to Iowa really make a difference?

 

[Deeko]

That situation is a nightmare. They can't votes that were already cast because it wasn't fair - as I recall, Obama wasn't even on the MI ballot, and a lot of potential voters didn't even vote because they knew it wasn't counting. But how can you just count out two states in a close election?? I understand what happened - but are you discounting the voice of millions of citizens becaues their state decided to be morons?

bad news.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Had they actually obeyed the rules, they would be in a powerful position (where they intended) - jumping the gun actually hurt them twice.

Maybe so, but you don't penalize millions of voters for a decision made by a few state party organizers.

So let each state party kiss up to the DNC, pay the state for the costs of a primary, act like a little child and ask for a do-over.


And if the Dems do not win the WH, it will set a precedence for asking that the National election be done over.

Washington state set the precedent for recounting until you succeed in your objective.
Now you can re-vote until you get the result that you want.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Had they actually obeyed the rules, they would be in a powerful position (where they intended) - jumping the gun actually hurt them twice.

Maybe so, but you don't penalize millions of voters for a decision made by a few state party organizers.

So let each state party kiss up to the DNC, pay the state for the costs of a primary, act like a little child and ask for a do-over.

therein lies the other issue.

Obamites are going to object to any primary do-over and Clintonistas will object to any caucus do-over.

 

[alphatarget1]

It wasn't the voter's fault that their state party moved the primaries up. I think it was fair to want more influence in selecting the president. If the Obama camp is against a revote and I lived in one of those states, I would under no circumstances vote for an asshole who doesn't care about what my state has to say.

I wouldn't vote for Obama in any case, though

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: Deeko
That situation is a nightmare. They can't votes that were already cast because it wasn't fair - as I recall, Obama wasn't even on the MI ballot, and a lot of potential voters didn't even vote because they knew it wasn't counting. But how can you just count out two states in a close election?? I understand what happened - but are you discounting the voice of millions of citizens becaues their state decided to be morons?

bad news.

He withdrew his name.

 

[Nebor]

This is no different than filling out a ballot incorrectly. Failure to follow directions means your vote doesn't get counted. They failed to follow directions and had their primary on the wrong day.

If you were to just say all of a sudden that their votes counted, that would be a slap in the face to all the people who didn't vote in those states, who COULD follow directions.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
So let them hold a proper primary NOW to settle the issue. The state Dem Party can pay for the costs.

Had they actually obeyed the rules, they would be in a powerful position (where they intended) - jumping the gun actually hurt them twice.

this is the best solution

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Had they actually obeyed the rules, they would be in a powerful position (where they intended) - jumping the gun actually hurt them twice.

Maybe so, but you don't penalize millions of voters for a decision made by a few state party organizers.

:thumbsup: The best argument I've heard for the Super Delegates to swing to Obama (who has the most votes).

Oh wait I forgot, the "voters" only count when it helps Hillary.

Damn, these primary rules are confusing, and sometimes they count, sometimes they don't.

Fern

 

[jpeyton]

MI & FL shouldn't have moved up their primaries contrary to party rules.

Now they can kindly STFU.

 

[Wreckem]

Go ahead do a do over.

Obama could win Michigan.
Clinton could win Florida.

Niether one would net many delegates out of either state.

The delegate math is pretty set in stone. Obama will finish with over 100 delegate lead amongst elected delegates.

Clinton won by double digits in Ohio, but is only going to net 9 or 10 delegates. Obama is netting delegates out of TX. Michigan and Florida will be a wash. Clinton cannot win by the 20%+ margins she needs to actually dent Obama's delegate margin.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Had they actually obeyed the rules, they would be in a powerful position (where they intended) - jumping the gun actually hurt them twice.

Maybe so, but you don't penalize millions of voters for a decision made by a few state party organizers.

You can't count votes in a primary that the voters of the state assumed wouldn't be counted. That's basically saying, "You can stay home, your primary means nothing" and then a month later saying, "Just kidding, your primary does count. Looks like you screwed up for not voting in a worthless primary, sucker!"

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: getbush
The votes should absolutely NOT count now after the fact if only because the actual voting took place under the pretense that the votes would not matter anyway. A lot of people probably stayed home.

Exactly. I think they should be left out but if they are going to 'count' they need to re-vote.

 

[Fern]

Does anybody think that the governors might be aware of all the camapign money spent per month (maybe $85Million) and want some for their state?

Fern

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Had they actually obeyed the rules, they would be in a powerful position (where they intended) - jumping the gun actually hurt them twice.

Maybe so, but you don't penalize millions of voters for a decision made by a few state party organizers.

The decision wasn't made by 'a few state party organizers'. It was made by the extensions of the electorate themselves, the legislatures. If Michigan and Florida voters are pissed, then the next time their legislator comes up for reelection then they can vote them out.

 

[Moonbeam]

Millions of people should be allowed out of jail to vote because their freedom is being denied by prisons.

They should be allowed to change their primaries back to where they were and get counted in the next election. Any problem the voters have with the rules they can take up with those officials who went ahead and violated them. They were happy to stick their finger in the eye of other voters so fuck them. Or we can give the Republican more proof that they aren't the only slime.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Go ahead do a do over.

Obama could win Michigan.
Clinton could win Florida.

MI will vote similarly to Ohio... Clinton will win handily there. Michigan is in tough economic times like Ohio and Clinton is seen more as the one who could turn that around, especially with Obama's recent flip-flopping on trade agreements.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Go ahead do a do over.

Obama could win Michigan.
Clinton could win Florida.

MI will vote similarly to Ohio... Clinton will win handily there. Michigan is in tough economic times like Ohio and Clinton is seen more as the one who could turn that around, especially with Obama's recent flip-flopping on trade agreements.

He HASN'T flip-flopped, but the fact that you fell for that BS hook, line, and sinker says something about the intelligence of the average voter. I've lost a lot of respect for rust belt union people.

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Go ahead do a do over.

Obama could win Michigan.
Clinton could win Florida.

MI will vote similarly to Ohio... Clinton will win handily there. Michigan is in tough economic times like Ohio and Clinton is seen more as the one who could turn that around, especially with Obama's recent flip-flopping on trade agreements.

That report has been thoroughly debunked by everyone involved.