Men 4x more likely than women to negotiate salary

[Exterous]

I hear this on NPR this morning and thought it was interesting.

When it comes to negotiating salaries, the research is pretty clear: women are less assertive than men. It's one reason women who start their careers with a narrower pay gap see it widen over time.

Carnegie Mellon economics professor Linda Babcock, who studies the gender pay gap, says men are four times more likely to negotiate their pay. That keeps women at a disadvantage, though they're not always aware of it.

"The standard now is that people don't really know what each other earns, that some people negotiate and some people don't, and so there's tremendous inequities in salary," Babcock says.

Many people leapfrog into higher salaries when they switch jobs. But Babcock says the pay disadvantage follows women if their new employers use their old salaries as benchmarks, as is often done.

They do note that negotiating can backfire more for women but they don't say whether that is in how women tend to negotiate or a bias and they don't say how much that hurts a women's chances at getting the job

It seems some companies view the way to fix this is to prevent anyone from negotiating a better salary like Reddit has done

http://www.npr.org/2015/04/23/401468571/some-companies-fight-pay-gap-by-eliminating-salary-negotiations

 

[CZroe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM

 

[Subyman]

It seems some companies view the way to fix this is to prevent anyone from negotiating a better salary like Reddit has done

http://www.npr.org/2015/04/23/401468571/some-companies-fight-pay-gap-by-eliminating-salary-negotiations

Its not "some companies", its only reddit and specifically only Yishan Wong who was not successful at suing her previous employer over sexism charges.

"Fixing" something by banning it isn't really fixing it, its carpet bombing the issue and is bad for the job market. I'm not sure how companies should go about fixing but seeing as women as a whole are still relatively new to the higher levels of corporate management there is still a lot of growing to do. Its hard to take stock of the situation while the change is still happening. Sweeping changes to policy while the transition is still being made can be immensely damaging to all parties.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Its not "some companies", its only reddit and specifically only Yishan Wong who was not successful at suing her previous employer over sexism charges.

"Fixing" something by banning it isn't really fixing it, its carpet bombing the issue and is bad for the job market. I'm not sure how companies should go about fixing but seeing as women as a whole are still relatively new to the higher levels of corporate management there is still a lot of growing to do. Its hard to take stock of the situation while the change is still happening. Sweeping changes to policy while the transition is still being made can be immensely damaging to all parties.

Universities and government also do not negotiate salaries.

 

[smackababy]

How could refusing to negotiate salary be considered a good thing for employees?


Perhaps, it would be much better to look, and address, some of the causes of women being less likely to negotiate their salary.

 

[MiniDoom]

How could refusing to negotiate salary be considered a good thing for employees?

I see this a little like buying a car from carmax where some people just don't like to haggle and are willing to pay more to avoid negotiations.
which brings me to the statistic that women are less likely to negotiate the price of a car. is that the fault of the car sales person?

 

[smackababy]

I see this a little like buying a car from carmax where some people just don't like to haggle and are willing to pay more to avoid negotiations.
which brings me to the statistic that women are less likely to negotiate the price of a car. is that the fault of the car sales person?

Clearly, we should ban all car negotiations! Women are being mistreated!

 

[MiniDoom]

Clearly, we should ban all car negotiations! Women are being mistreated!

the funny thing is, and this might just be a personal or even cultural thing because my wife is latina but she would never ever want to be anywhere near a car sale negotiation going down, but if she's at the market or somewhere with street vendors she'll haggle and negotiate the fuck out a pair of shoe, sunglasses, etc... this leaves me confused most of the time.

 

[Exterous]

Its not "some companies", its only reddit and specifically only Yishan Wong who was not successful at suing her previous employer over sexism charges.

I know this is P&N but I still have this weird hope that people would actually read the links posted.

That includes Elevations Credit Union, based in Boulder, Colo. The company sets salary level based on title, which it publishes online. So effectively, there is no salary negotiation during hiring or promotion.

"Fixing" something by banning it isn't really fixing it, its carpet bombing the issue and is bad for the job market. I'm not sure how companies should go about fixing but seeing as women as a whole are still relatively new to the higher levels of corporate management there is still a lot of growing to do. Its hard to take stock of the situation while the change is still happening. Sweeping changes to policy while the transition is still being made can be immensely damaging to all parties.

I would agree so I hope this isn't something that gains more traction

 

[finglobes]

Women screamed and fainted over the Beatles and Elvis. Women have over double rates of mood disorders, depression, PTSD etc. They are more emotional, more reactive and more senstive to stress (good reasons they don't belong in combat). Men still do most things better than women. Women tend to get more upset and then supress it. Women can hate each other and fall all over themselves as if they are best buddies when they meet at the mall. Women are generally more irrational then men (less so when men are liberal - then they are more like women)

 

[nickqt]

Women screamed and fainted over the Beatles and Elvis. Women have over double rates of mood disorders, depression, PTSD etc. They are more emotional, more reactive and more senstive to stress (good reasons they don't belong in combat). Men still do most things better than women. Women tend to get more upset and then supress it. Women can hate each other and fall all over themselves as if they are best buddies when they meet at the mall. Women are generally more irrational then men (less so when men are liberal - then they are more like women)

Yeah, women are dumb.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Women screamed and fainted over the Beatles and Elvis. Women have over double rates of mood disorders, depression, PTSD etc. They are more emotional, more reactive and more senstive to stress (good reasons they don't belong in combat). Men still do most things better than women. Women tend to get more upset and then supress it. Women can hate each other and fall all over themselves as if they are best buddies when they meet at the mall. Women are generally more irrational then men (less so when men are liberal - then they are more like women)

It's not polite to talk about your mother like that.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Women screamed and fainted over the Beatles and Elvis. Women have over double rates of mood disorders, depression, PTSD etc. They are more emotional, more reactive and more senstive to stress (good reasons they don't belong in combat). Men still do most things better than women. Women tend to get more upset and then supress it. Women can hate each other and fall all over themselves as if they are best buddies when they meet at the mall. Women are generally more irrational then men (less so when men are liberal - then they are more like women)

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


:biggrin:

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

the funny thing is, and this might just be a personal or even cultural thing because my wife is latina but she would never ever want to be anywhere near a car sale negotiation going down, but if she's at the market or somewhere with street vendors she'll haggle and negotiate the fuck out a pair of shoe, sunglasses, etc... this leaves me confused most of the time.

Holy shit. My wife is Latin from South America... you JUST fucking described her in full.

To go along with car sale negotiations, it also includes haggling for furniture as well (basically anything halfway expensive). She can't take it. She would (and probably has) literally exploded for situations like that.

Thank god she has me to handle such INTENSE logical situations... I mean, every negotiation is the same to me. It's a logical conversation of how much one is willing to pay vs. how much one is willing to sell. Simple. Logical. But she can't handle it when it's expensive.

 

[Exophase]

I think one reason women are less assertive at negotiating salaries is because they are, on average, simply less motivated to earn money. I'm curious what the gender ratio looks like when looking at people who leave their current employer (especially one they're comfortable with) for another that offers more money.

 

[touchstone]

Ellen Pao has the right to create whatever policies she wants at her company (reddit). If you don't like it, you probably should go to Stanford and get perfect scores and then run multi-million dollar companies and then cultivate enough influence in said companies in order to gain control of Reddit.


Also, LOL @ The idea that women are worse at negotiating. Perhaps they don't prioritize having a tiny bit better salary over destroying social relationships with their superiors? I can think of many good reasons why they negotiate less.

 

[Subyman]

Universities and government also do not negotiate salaries.

That goes without saying.

I would agree so I hope this isn't something that gains more traction

My speculation is that more companies may go this way as as a guise for equality, but the real reason being to stifle job competition. Silicon valley already settled a huge case for colluding to not pouch employees. This sounds even slimier than that.

 

[who?]

Yeah baby!! TESTOSTERONE!!

 

[Subyman]

Ellen Pao has the right to create whatever policies she wants at her company (reddit). If you don't like it, you probably should go to Stanford and get perfect scores and then run multi-million dollar companies and then cultivate enough influence in said companies in order to gain control of Reddit.


Also, LOL @ The idea that women are worse at negotiating. Perhaps they don't prioritize having a tiny bit better salary over destroying social relationships with their superiors? I can think of many good reasons why they negotiate less.

Yes, since the only way to get a raise is to "destroy relationships" with the people giving the raise. Doesn't sound like the type of person that gets a raise, more likely fired.

 

[who?]

This:http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/220/transcript

 

[Bitek]

I know this is P&N but I still have this weird hope that people would actually read the links posted.

Quote:
That includes Elevations Credit Union, based in Boulder, Colo. The company sets salary level based on title, which it publishes online. So effectively, there is no salary negotiation during hiring or promotion.

I would agree so I hope this isn't something that gains more traction

Elevations is the credit union for the university of Colorado. Boulder is also a dippy hippy town, so I wouldn't put too much stock in this.


I think the car max comparison is spot on. My wife works in a company that is almost all women, and they are all funny about pushing for salaries and promotions. I find it insanely irritating the stuff they put up with.

So many don't want to ruffle feathers or be unfair to others (by pushing for more pay for themselves.) I don't want to paint too broad of a brush, but women definitely have a different MO than typical men

 

[Blanky]

Lol, so really part of their very small salary difference (the 77% number is total shit) is their own fault.

 

[touchstone]

Yes, since the only way to get a raise is to "destroy relationships" with the people giving the raise. Doesn't sound like the type of person that gets a raise, more likely fired.

For women, that is what they end up doing. I recall in a pretty recent study that men who negotiated for a higher salary were viewed positively by employers, while women who likewise negotiated were viewed very negatively. I'll find it if you want me to.



Is your suggestion that women are less capable than men, because they negotiate less? That is asinine. I can tell you that while there may be some weird inconsistencies in the distribution of how people score on specific IQ tests, as a whole women are just as capable as men. You will find women who are as smart as any man. In fact, I believe the record holder for IQ is a woman.

I get it, it is sometimes BS that women get special considerations men don't, and that we get screwed. But consider which gender you would rather be. My guess is when it comes down to it, for all the 'special' stuff women get, you would much rather have the option to be the gender that every president has been... the gender that at least has a chance of fighting back in a rape scenario. The gender that can drive in the middle east, and receive property, and not be oppressed.


I just don't see how you can't just give it to them once in awhile. Personally, any woman with the 'balls' (funny the descriptor for somebody having temerity is literally masculine genetalia!) to make it into the tech field has probably had to wade through a minefield of BS miles and miles long.I don't envy what she has to deal with in the future and I'm not here to contribute to it on behalf of some weird gender-insecurity .

 

[DrDoug]

How could refusing to negotiate salary be considered a good thing for employees?

...

Hey, it works fine for those stuck at minimum and low wages. In fact, it seems a lot of people who earn salaries believe that less is just fine for everyone else.

Funny how that works.

 

[Blanky]

I get it, it is sometimes BS that women get special considerations men don't, and that we get screwed. But consider which gender you would rather be. My guess is when it comes down to it, for all the 'special' stuff women get, you would much rather have the option to be the gender that every president has been... the gender that at least has a chance of fighting back in a rape scenario. The gender that can drive in the middle east, and receive property, and not be oppressed.

I appreciate your arguments and won't pretend that men don't have societal benefits in certain positions, but men are more likely than women to be a victim of violent crime (I googled it) and the middle east is a complete shit hole across the map anyway, so really ought not to cross anybody's radar on rights.

Times have also changed so damn quickly that much of the establishment is going to change in the very near future. I don't think a male born today is advantaged vs a female. The stats say they are more likely to go off the rails in their teen years, and less men than women are getting college degrees today as well.