Meet The 20-Somethings Who Want To Be Sterilized

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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Seems many women and young men are asking to be sterilized. The only problem is that more times than not women are told no for some pretty lame reasons, whereas young men are told yes more often than not.

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The first time Bri Seeley told her doctor she wanted to be sterilized, she was 24 years old.

In some ways, she had always known she did not want to have children, but the idea really started to take root in high school. By the end of college, it had blossomed. While friends and boyfriends debated baby names and imagined their futures as parents, she dreamed of her own future as an entrepreneur -- a writer, fashion designer and aspiring women's empowerment activist. Motherhood, she knew deep in her bones, was not for her.

But the naturopath whom Seeley saw for her annual exam told her that because of her age, she was not a good candidate for permanent sterilization. The following year, Seeley asked again -- and was rebuffed again. Next year, the same thing.

"Every single year she would say to me, 'You will never find a doctor to do that for you,'" said Seeley, who is now 31 and lives in Los Angeles, and who has blogged for The Huffington Post about her experience. Though her desire for the procedure only grew, she said, the anger she felt after her initial rejection gradually gave way to a kind of numbed resignation.

"[The naturopath] would say, 'You can go get a consultation, but you're going to pay for this consultation, and they're going to tell you no,'" Seeley said. "You're too young."

Among women of reproductive age in the United States, more than 60 percent currently use some form of contraception. Within that group, 64 percent turn to reversible or one-time options, but the rest rely on permanent methods: male sterilization (i.e. vasectomy), or, more frequently, female sterilization, according to the Guttmacher Institute.

Women who seek sterilization tend to cluster in certain demographic groups. Those who are over 35, have been married or have had at least two children are more likely to undergo the procedure, which is done either by cutting or clamping a woman's fallopian tubes or by placing tiny inserts that prevent the joining of a sperm and egg.

For young women to whom the above characteristics don't apply -- women who are at their peak fertility, yet certain they do not want babies of their own -- finding a doctor to perform sterilization can be challenging, even impossible, as J. Bryan Lowder explored in a 2012 piece for Slate. Elsewhere online, anecdotes of frustration abound. "So far I've asked three doctors about a tubal ligation and they've all flat out told me no even after I discuss my reasons with them," a user on The Childfree Life forums wrote in a thread about tubal ligation for women under 30.

But how much responsibility do health care providers bear when it comes to guiding young women through contraceptive decisions with lasting effects that aren't, in many cases, medical at all?

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists weighed in on the topic last year with an updated policy statement on the benefits and risks of sterilization. The statement concludes that it's both a safe and effective means of permanent birth control. "Women who have completed their childbearing are candidates for sterilization," it says -- without elaborating on what, precisely, that means. Does it refer to women who have already had a child, or several, and have now decided they're done? Or could that category also include an 18-year-old woman who has determined she's "completed" before ever getting started?

A major area of focus for ACOG, and the OB-GYNs it seeks to counsel, is the question of regret. A comprehensive 2008 review looking at sterilization in the United States found that patient regret is the most common lasting complication of sterilization, and one that disproportionately affects women: Up to 26 percent of female patients say later that they regret the procedure, according to statistics cited in the study, compared to less than 5 percent of men who have a vasectomy. And age, the researchers concluded, is the top predictor of regret. Women who were under 30 when they were sterilized were twice as likely as their older counterparts to say they had later misgivings.

"Thirty is not a totally arbitrary [cutoff]," said Dr. Deborah Bartz, an assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Harvard Medical School and a researcher involved with the 2008 review. "There is some biologic plausibility and social plausibility [to that finding] that makes sense to some extent."

For Seeley, 30 -- or nearing it -- seemed to be the magic number. When she turned 29, she went off the birth control pill, which she'd been on since she was 18, because she'd begun to experience physical and emotional side effects.

That same year, after yet another frustrating visit with her doctor, she read an article about young women undergoing sterilization that prompted her to go online and find a physician willing to perform the Essure procedure -- a form of permanent contraception in which small inserts are placed in a woman's fallopian tubes to form a natural barrier. She found an OB-GYN, scheduled an appointment and began to prepare. Seeley arrived at the consultation armed with the article and her journal chronicling her many reasons for wanting to live child-free.

"[The doctor] went through the standard list of questions, like, 'Well, you know it's permanent -- what about a temporary option?'" Seeley said. "I said, 'I don't want a temporary option. I've had one for the past 11 years, and I've been asking for a permanent one for the past six. This is who I am. This is what I want.'"

By the time the 15-minute consultation was over, Seeley had made an appointment to undergo the procedure. She'd also gotten her doctor's assurance that she seemed like a woman who knew what she wanted and who was, in fact, a very good candidate for sterilization.

Ultimately, ACOG's official stance is that if a woman is well-informed and seeks sterilization, it doesn't matter how old she is or whether she's already had a child. Patients should be informed of the factors that have been shown to increase the risk of subsequent regret, but in the end, the decision is their own. (Women seeking Medicaid coverage for the procedure face additional barriers in that they must be at least 21 years old and go through a 30-day waiting period between initial consent and the procedure, based on a controversial Medicaid rule enacted in the late 1970s.)

But there are countless ways that conversation can actually take place, depending on the provider. And doctors and nurses often bring their own beliefs and assumptions to the table.

"I personally, whether I'm seeing a 22-year-old or a 30-year-old, would counsel her very vigorously, and I would certainly take more time with someone who has never had a child, or who is very young," said Dr. Eve Espey, chair of the department of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of New Mexico.

Espey called the whole topic "difficult," noting that it surfaces issues of paternalism and autonomy.

"In some ways, it's very difficult to see a 22-year old make a decision for the 35-year-old she will be someday and not have major concerns that she might regret that decision," she told HuffPost. "On the other hand, at what point do you say, 'Of course the woman is autonomous and can make her own decisions about her reproductive health'?"

Increasingly, there has been a move within the reproductive health field to shepherd women of all ages and life stages toward long-acting reversible contraceptive options, or LARC. These are the most effective forms of reversible contraception available, and safe for nearly all women of reproductive age -- even those who have not yet had children, but who may want to someday. Earlier this fall, for example, the American Academy recommended that long-acting contraceptive methods be considered the first choice for teens who have decided to be sexually active.

"We'd like to see improved provision of long-acting reversible contraceptives," Bartz said. "They're equally effective [as sterilization], they're equally easy for most women to receive. But then we can remove the idea of permanency and potential for regret."

Yet for some young women who don't want to have children, irreversibility is exactly what they are looking for.

"The fact that it was permanent really appealed to me," said Heather Gentry, 28, a married, child-free woman in Georgia who got her tubes tied last fall. She has never wanted to be a mother (though her husband does have kids from a previous relationship), and has always struggled to explain her stance to those who question it.

"It's almost indefensible -- not in the sense that it's bad, but it's a yes or no question," she said. "Do you want to have children or not? If you don't, then you don't. Period."

Gentry went to her nurse practitioner, thinking about having the Essure procedure or even just a copper IUD inserted. "I needed something that didn't have hormones," said Gentry, who has tried four different brands of birth control pills at various stages of her life. "I have depression problems, and every time I added hormones on top of that, it seemed to aggravate the problem."

In Gentry's case, however, it was her health care provider who encouraged her to pursue a more lasting option. She described the encounter in a blog post for Offbeat Home: "'If I were you, I would just get my tubes tied,'" Gentry quotes her doctor as saying. "Floored, I asked why. 'Well, they'll put you to sleep, then you'll wake up and it'll be over. There's minimal pain with recovery because it's a laparoscopic procedure.'"

Psychologically, getting sterilized has affected Gentry in ways she didn't plan for. She finds she is far more tolerant of children than she once was, and enjoys their company more. She no longer worries that if she coos over a baby, or spends time playing with a child, it will signal to herself, or others, that she holds some private, untapped longing for motherhood.

"Something about making that decision, and being clear and true to myself, means that if I'm at the grocery store and I see a cute toddler, I can say 'Look at him!'" she said.

But in other ways, Gentry's emotional response to the procedure has been exactly what she predicted it would be.

"I have had no moments of regret," she said. "It's one of the best things I have ever done."

Link to news article
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
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If I were a doctor I would also be hard pressed to sterilize a 24 year old woman. The simple fact is people change and one's views at 24 may very well not be the same several years later. There are exceptions, but I guarantee you there are women who regretted sterilization. Heck, I know one who got Fallopian tube reversal after already having kids and post-reversal had two more.

A lot of youngsters are ignorant of their future self, not surprisingly. Just as when I was a teen I would say things like "Kill me before you put me in a group home" with my friends, now as I'm older I think living in a group home would be preferable to being shot after all.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,749
4,558
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I for one wish to advocate for sterilization. :) Especially for P and N posters.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
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18-21: Old enough to go kill or die in war, own deadly weapons, use harmful addictive drugs, and legally considered an adult.


Deciding you don't want kids? Oh wait, you're female? Shut up, you don't know what you're talking about, go away. I mean come on, if you don't have kids, what good are you to society?


o_O




If I were a doctor I would also be hard pressed to sterilize a 24 year old woman. The simple fact is people change and one's views at 24 may very well not be the same several years later. There are exceptions, but I guarantee you there are women who regretted sterilization. Heck, I know one who got Fallopian tube reversal after already having kids and post-reversal had two more.

A lot of youngsters are ignorant of their future self, not surprisingly. Just as when I was a teen I would say things like "Kill me before you put me in a group home" with my friends, now as I'm older I think living in a group home would be preferable to being shot after all.
Anyone is ignorant of their future self.
Heck, if you're 60 and think back to when you were 35, it may well be little different than 35-you looking back at yourself when you were 17. Adding years of knowledge and experience can change things, along with changing conditions: The people you're with or not with, your level of wealth, injuries or chronic illnesses can all affect who "you" are.



There are exceptions, but I guarantee you there are women who regretted sterilization.
And there are people who regretted smoking for 20 years, but society still offers it as a choice to be made. Sometimes people make decisions that don't pan out, or they simply change their minds.
I can't say it's surprising that women are turned down more often than men. Our species' attitudes toward women have historically been pretty shitty. (What's that, women want to have a voice in politics and vote? Come on now, don't be ridiculous. Next you'll say that there could someday even be a woman as president of the US.)
 
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homebrew2ny

Senior member
Jan 3, 2013
611
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If anyone who is of legal age (18 or perhaps 21) requests and has the funds/means to be sterilized, they should absolutely be accommodated as soon as possible.
 

massmedia

Senior member
Oct 1, 2014
232
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0
well hmm..

Naturopath /= doctor so person seeing said naturopath gets no sympathy.
Proposing a reversible sterilization seems a sensible 1st approach for any doctor to take. If that is rejected then give them what they want.

The world could use less reproduction anyway so if people want to self-select against having their genes represented in the next generation why should anybody give a damn. There are real problems in this world and too few people ain't one of them.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
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Doctor can refuse to do it. I don't see a problem. You can't force doctors to do a procedure. She just hasn't found one that will do it.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
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My SO didn't start wanting kids until later in life. She was definitely in the camp of "I don't want kids" but that all changes with the biological clock, which women have no control over.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Seems many women and young men are asking to be sterilized. The only problem is that more times than not women are told no for some pretty lame reasons, whereas young men are told yes more often than not.

Yes of course it must be sexist bias rather than something simple like vasectomy being exponentially easier to reverse than tubal litigation for women. I daresay if the reverse were true than doctors would be more hesitant to men asking for sterilization. If you find evidence that doctors are more reluctant to perform procedures on one sex vs. the other where the risks and reversibility were identical (e.g. elective amputation) then we might have something to discuss.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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One of the biggest problems with our economy (ask Japan, they know from experience) is a sudden downshot in people having children. This can be absolutely detrimental on our overall economic help to the point of another depression collapse.

I know some people are too stupid too realize these things, but yes, it is true. Once again, just look at what Japan is going through. It can be a complete killer on your economy when all of sudden you have 1/3 as many people buying baby/kids items. Sadly, we need those stupid people for economy to keep going.

I understand the notion. I also understand the notion for being more lenient on the man vs. the woman. We can freeze the mans semen and were good to go for backup. Those eggs are those eggs. Once you tie the tubes they are gone. No more babies there.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,511
2,128
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the problem isn't coming from wheter the decision is good or bad, but from the physician's ethics. a doctor will not harm the patient, and while in practice most people will ignore this (look at plastic surgeons), you can find enough doctors with a conscience to write an article about them.

ofc, when it comes to guys, they are all like, "you wanna go die in war? cool"

we're protective of women, it's built in our species. men are disposeable; after all, you just need *one* guy to reproduce, everyone else can be female.
(and lucky one guy)
 

massmedia

Senior member
Oct 1, 2014
232
0
0
One of the biggest problems with our economy (ask Japan, they know from experience) is a sudden downshot in people having children. This can be absolutely detrimental on our overall economic help to the point of another depression collapse.

I know some people are too stupid too realize these things, but yes, it is true. Once again, just look at what Japan is going through. It can be a complete killer on your economy when all of sudden you have 1/3 as many people buying baby/kids items. Sadly, we need those stupid people for economy to keep going.

I understand the notion. I also understand the notion for being more lenient on the man vs. the woman. We can freeze the mans semen and were good to go for backup. Those eggs are those eggs. Once you tie the tubes they are gone. No more babies there.
To borrow your phrasing... some people are too stupid to realize that the economic mythology of perpetual growth is both ignorant (because it is impossible on a planet with finite resources) and stupid to pursue (because it leads to the destruction of he life support system of the animal life that purports to control and benefit from [on the short term] said economic growth).

it takes a special kind of education to produce people stupid and selfish enough to value economic growth over the prospects of a sustained human-compatible habitability of the Earth biosphere.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
17,759
9,704
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If I were a doctor I would also be hard pressed to sterilize a 24 year old woman. The simple fact is people change and one's views at 24 may very well not be the same several years later.

Their lives, their choice. Would you also suggest that humans be prohibited from a tonne of other activities "because they could regret it later in life"?

The only thing I would advise either gender considering such an op would be that (AFAIK, IANAD) humanity's understanding of the roles of various hormones in the body are not completely understood, but (again, AFAIK IANAD), as far as the medical profession is aware, there's not a known reason why ops such as these are Really Bad Ideas (tm).

Furthermore, I made a decision a couple of years ago that I'm pretty sure the doctor didn't think was a particularly good idea (ie. it would by to the detriment of my health), but I was allowed to make the decision.
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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If anyone who is of legal age (18 or perhaps 21) requests and has the funds/means to be sterilized, they should absolutely be accommodated as soon as possible.

Of course they should. The rest of us need some true horror stories about how they regretted the decision in their late 20s/early 30s; to tell our kids when they get the same stupid notion into their heads at age 18. /sarcasm

What's wrong with non-permanent contraception? Also I get that the point of the article is more of a "women get turned down and men don't" angle, but I'm applying this philosophy to both genders. Just use the highly effective and non-permanent variety until your mid-30s and are a little more put-together to make a decision of that magnitude.
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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Their lives, their choice. Would you also suggest that humans be prohibited from a tonne of other activities "because they could regret it later in life".

Yes. Like we already do with age limits on driving, purchasing alcohol, smoking, gun ownership, voting, property ownership, sexual consent, and those activities are typically a lot less drastic and a lot less permanent.

Why do you think we age-limit those activities? Every 15 year old is tall enough to drive and physically mature enough to have sex, hell a few even earn enough money to buy stuff, why can't they own property? Because as a society we've decided that they're too young to make such decisions wisely. This situation is no different IMO.

My GF, from her teenage years into her early 20s, never wanted a long-term relationship and planned to have a "string of lovers". We've been together over four years now and things are only progressing, and she's known I wanted kids since before we were together. I'd hate to imagine where either of us would be if she'd sterilized herself at 18.
 
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norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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Honestly if given their attitude I think the doctors might even want to consider agreeing because Darwinism will give a net benefit. Those who are willing to even make such a drastic decision that early are probably only going to make other dumb decisions for the rest of their life. This goes for men also.
 

nickbits

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2008
4,122
1
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I got mine when I was 30 (no kids) and wanted one since I was 22 but I didn't pursue it since I didn't think I could get someone to do it.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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Of course they should. The rest of us need some true horror stories about how they regretted the decision in their late 20s/early 30s; to tell our kids when they get the same stupid notion into their heads at age 18.

18-21: Old enough to go kill or die in war, own deadly weapons, use harmful addictive drugs, and legally considered an adult.


Deciding you don't want kids? Oh wait, you're female? Shut up, you don't know what you're talking about, go away. I mean come on, if you don't have kids, what good are you to society?

I have to respectfully disagree with both of you.

Let's not forget that during the 20th century thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of people were sterilized against their will. The eugenics movement was even upheld by the US supreme court.

I see refusing to sterilize young people as protection against a bigot doctor who may try to influence certain races and minorities to become sterilized.

As people age their viewpoints change. A 21 years old wanting to get sterilized? That seems a little young when that person has little life experience behind them.
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
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I have to respectfully disagree with both of you.

Let's not forget that during the 20th century thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of people were sterilized against their will. The eugenics movement was even upheld by the US supreme court.

I see refusing to sterilize young people as protection against a bigot doctor who may try to influence certain races and minorities to become sterilized.

I was being sarcastic. Thought my 2nd paragraph made that clear.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
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Actually 15 is the universal age that soldiers are considered as adult by UN law.