Meanwhile on Plastic Island, yay humans and their wastefulness

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Its a very serious subject I just don't see much point in discussing it with obnoxious assholes like you. It's been my experience that dipshits like you do more harm to causes than help through sheer, offputting, assholier-than-thou-ness.

well you, on the other hand, seem very open and welcoming to all sorts of people and ideologies. So kudos on that front.

 

[realibrad]

Not all recycling is good for the environment when you look at it in total. Plastic is generally better to put into a landfill because of the amount of energy used to recycle it. Environmentally, our bigger problem is not that we need to recycle more plastic, but that we need to get people to actually throw it in the trash. We would do a lot more for the environment in terms of plastics if we had better methods of getting plastic into landfills.

 

[raildogg]

Not all recycling is good for the environment when you look at it in total. Plastic is generally better to put into a landfill because of the amount of energy used to recycle it. Environmentally, our bigger problem is not that we need to recycle more plastic, but that we need to get people to actually throw it in the trash. We would do a lot more for the environment in terms of plastics if we had better methods of getting plastic into landfills.

Once again we're treating the symptoms rather than the problem itself.

Whenever you have people being raised in the way they are being raised now, we will always be at war with the planet just as we are always at war with each other. We need to raise better humans with better values. People who respect each other and respect the Earth. I mean, we can't even get along with our fellow man on the simplest of things. LOL, this global treaty they reached recently will probably not go far it seems. Besides, it's only dealing with the small surface of the problem. Your recycling and other conservation efforts will only go so far.

As long as we have selfish people raising another group of selfish people, the Earth's destruction will continue. Our modernization and successes will come at the expense of nature, animals and the very planet itself.

We are seeing the so-called progress now.

In the coming years and decades, billions of people will be "lifted" out of poverty and into the supposed middle class. You know what the middle class people do? Spend, spend and spend. That means more destruction and looting of the Earth for profits.

Imagine billions of additional consumers who are driving millions of more cars, flying in thousands of more airplanes and consuming who knows what amount of energy. Do you think the energy in most of these places will be "clean" energy? Heck, all these people want is the Western dream. They want their car, their house, their planes, their shoes, etc. just as much as their Western counterpart who has already had them for decades.

 

[1prophet]

The reason that pollution whether in the air on/in the ground or in the oceans/rivers/seas/lakes is getting worse and not better is because any and all solutions will get in the way of short term corporate profits and those who control and benefit from them,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

The words of Paul Mazur, a leading Wall Street banker working for Lehman Brothers in 1927, are cited: "We must shift America from a needs- to a desires-culture. People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been entirely consumed. [...] Man's desires must overshadow his needs."

The Light Bulb Conspiracy

As a magazine for advertisers succinctly puts it: The article that refuses to wear out is a tragedy of business - and a tragedy for the modern growth society which relies on an ever-accelerating cycle of production, consumption and throwing away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pCigAw2-0g

Scott Noble's "Human Resources and Social Engineering"

Read David Ker Thomson's review of the film. He writes: It answers the significant events of the last century the way a glass answers the implicit questions of a man who peers into its reflective surface, point for point. It corresponds, in short, to reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pCigAw2-0g

 

[realibrad]

Once again we're treating the symptoms rather than the problem itself.

Whenever you have people being raised in the way they are being raised now, we will always be at war with the planet just as we are always at war with each other. We need to raise better humans with better values. People who respect each other and respect the Earth. I mean, we can't even get along with our fellow man on the simplest of things. LOL, this global treaty they reached recently will probably not go far it seems. Besides, it's only dealing with the small surface of the problem. Your recycling and other conservation efforts will only go so far.

As long as we have selfish people raising another group of selfish people, the Earth's destruction will continue. Our modernization and successes will come at the expense of nature, animals and the very planet itself.

We are seeing the so-called progress now.

In the coming years and decades, billions of people will be "lifted" out of poverty and into the supposed middle class. You know what the middle class people do? Spend, spend and spend. That means more destruction and looting of the Earth for profits.

Imagine billions of additional consumers who are driving millions of more cars, flying in thousands of more airplanes and consuming who knows what amount of energy. Do you think the energy in most of these places will be "clean" energy? Heck, all these people want is the Western dream. They want their car, their house, their planes, their shoes, etc. just as much as their Western counterpart who has already had them for decades.

If everyone threw away their garbage, what would the world look like?

The problem is pollution, no the intent of people. Intent could be a big help, but its not required to clean up the planet. 99.999999% of people that pollute do so because its easier/cheaper for them to do so. You could literally consume just as much if not more, and still solve plastic pollution by simply putting it in a landfill.

Would you like to talk about the environmental impacts of proper landfills?

 

[realibrad]

The reason that pollution whether in the air on/in the ground or in the oceans/rivers/seas/lakes is getting worse and not better is because any and all solutions will get in the way of short term corporate profits and those who control and benefit from them,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self


The Light Bulb Conspiracy



Scott Noble's "Human Resources and Social Engineering"

I would presume you also do not do things that pollute right? I'm sure you don't leave power plugs in the wall where they draw power for stand by. I'm sure you don't take trips to far away places just for fun.

No, not all pollution is caused by short term corporate profits.

 

[raildogg]

If everyone threw away their garbage, what would the world look like?

The problem is pollution, no the intent of people. Intent could be a big help, but its not required to clean up the planet. 99.999999% of people that pollute do so because its easier/cheaper for them to do so. You could literally consume just as much if not more, and still solve plastic pollution by simply putting it in a landfill.

Would you like to talk about the environmental impacts of proper landfills?

What about the other damage being done besides pollution? What about the unnatural ways we are inflicting damage to the Earth? Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by pollution?

For instance, let's look at how much oil we are pumping out of the Earth. I mean, is that a free lunch? Just take a natural substance out that exists deep in the Earth in massive quantities? I mean, that's just a small example of what kind of things we're doing.

The so-called energy efficient cars that we might build in the future will still require a lot of raw materials to build. Just another small example but its another case of humans trampling on the Earth for the sake of profits and personal ambitions.

So basically, everything that humans touch, they usually ruin it. Sorry to be so negative here.

 

[Fern]

There seems to be a lot of research needed for this; too many unknowns.

Man-made global warming is sucking up all the money and attention while other problems remain virtually unnoticed.

Fern

 

[raildogg]

There seems to be a lot of research needed for this; too many unknowns.

Man-made global warming is sucking up all the money and attention while other problems remain virtually unnoticed.

Fern

It is not about global warming or cooling. That is a political debate that means nothing.

The fact is that man is completely disrespectful to the Earth and everything on it. The evidence is everywhere.

 

[realibrad]

What about the other damage being done besides pollution? What about the unnatural ways we are inflicting damage to the Earth? Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by pollution?

For instance, let's look at how much oil we are pumping out of the Earth. I mean, is that a free lunch? Just take a natural substance out that exists deep in the Earth in massive quantities? I mean, that's just a small example of what kind of things we're doing.

The so-called energy efficient cars that we might build in the future will still require a lot of raw materials to build. Just another small example but its another case of humans trampling on the Earth for the sake of profits and personal ambitions.

Pollution -
the presence in or introduction into the environment of a substance or thing that has harmful or poisonous effects.

That is the meaning of pollution to me. If something is being added that is "harmful" and or has "poisonous effects" then its pollution. That is why you can have things like noise pollution as well as other forms.

Who is this mythical person that believes burning oil does not have side effects? Or are you literally asking me about pumping it? Hell, ill answer both.

Pumping oil consumes resources. As with all things, there are trade-offs when there is consumption vs not. If we were simply pumping oil out of the ground and doing nothing with it, that would be stupid and wasteful. That is not the world we live in though, as the oil is used. Its not just burned either. Its turned into things that some people require to stay alive. Yes, as mentioned before, using oil consumes resources, but what is important is the trade-off.

Burning oil and or using oil consumes resources. If resources are being wasted, there is pollution. When resources are not wasted, there is pollution. What is important is that we find an equilibrium of pollution and cleanup and the net benefit. If I drive a firetruck to put out a fire, I burn oil. There will be some pollution added driving the firetruck. Letting the fire burn out will put a lot more pollution into the environment. In net, burning a little oil in the truck has a net effect of preventing more pollution.

Plastic is perfectly fine so long as we have systems that keep it out of places it does not belong. If we put all plastic in landfills the impact of plastic would be so one sided that nobody could argue against the consumption even at current levels.

 

[realibrad]

There seems to be a lot of research needed for this; too many unknowns.

Man-made global warming is sucking up all the money and attention while other problems remain virtually unnoticed.

Fern

That is because global warming currently poses a much bigger risk to the planet than the current plastic problem. It makes sense to spend more resources on something that represents a bigger problem.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Honestly, thank you for at least having a conversation about this. It is crucially important and even though what I do is miniscule in the grand scheme of things, it's what I can do, and I can nudge my neighbor to do the same, and they can do that, etc.

 

[Victorian Gray]

There seems to be a lot of research needed for this; too many unknowns.

Man-made global warming is sucking up all the money and attention while other problems remain virtually unnoticed.

Fern

What problems do you believe are going unnoticed?

 

[MajinCry]

What problems do you believe are going unnoticed?

The plight of Creationism, with those gosh darn atheists infringing upon the religion of peace.

 

[JSt0rm]

in 400 years when all this plastic is breaking down they will have real problems with weird bio that eats whatever it breaks into.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I have often thought people 100 years from now would look upon our wastefulness with the same disgust a modern man does discussing a 1800's slave owner.

There just aren't any good answers beyond hoping someone "figures it out" (ie technology).

 

[Fern]

What problems do you believe are going unnoticed?

Here's an example: http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/index.html

So busy with CO2 concerns we're poisoning the sea (Gulf of Mexico in this case).

Fern

 

[JSt0rm]

I have often thought people 100 years from now would look upon our wastefulness with the same disgust a modern man does discussing a 1800's slave owner.

There just aren't any good answers beyond hoping someone "figures it out" (ie technology).

Not just slave owners. All of the wood that is extinct from back then. Lots of different types of fruits and veggies are simply gone as well. The thing is the difference between them and us is we know understand and know better. They will look down on us a lot harder as they try and cope with a dying planet.

 

[JSt0rm]

Here's an example: http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/index.html

So busy with CO2 concerns we're poisoning the sea (Gulf of Mexico in this case).

Fern

the entirety of the human race can handle working on a few problems at once. There is no will to work on these problems though.

 

[1prophet]

I would presume you also do not do things that pollute right? I'm sure you don't leave power plugs in the wall where they draw power for stand by. I'm sure you don't take trips to far away places just for fun.

No, not all pollution is caused by short term corporate profits.

All human beings have flaws but that shouldn't hold as back from questioning and exposing those flaws which hold our society back as a whole,

and among those flaws the most difficult one to overcome is the indoctrination that causes one to immediately lash out without looking at any evidence presented because it offends their sacred cows.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Here's an example: http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/index.html

So busy with CO2 concerns we're poisoning the sea (Gulf of Mexico in this case).

Fern

Doesn't seem like the issue is being not noticed/ignored/not dealt with.

From your link:

"What Can be Done to Remediate the Problem?
The key to minimizing the Gulf dead zone is to address it at the source. Solutions include:

• Using fewer fertilizers and adjusting the timing of fertilizer applications to limit runoff of excess nutrients from farmland
• Control of animal wastes so that they are not allowed to enter into waterways
• Monitoring of septic systems and sewage treatment facilities to reduce discharge of nutrients to surface water and groundwater
• Careful industrial practices such as limiting the discharge of nutrients, organic matter, and chemicals from manufacturing facilities

These solutions are relatively simple to implement and would significantly reduce the input of nitrogen and phosphorus to the Gulf of Mexico. A similar approach has been used successfully in the Great Lakes' recovery from eutrophication.

The government is also funding efforts to restore wetlands along the Gulf coast to naturally filter the water before it enters the Gulf."

And

http://www.nature.org/ourinitiative...ucing-the-dead-zone-and-mitigating-floods.xml

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ocean-dead-zones/

and from 1998

https://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/hypoxia.htm

 

[KMFJD]

The people down here still throw all their shit out the window etc...i gotta take some pictures of the trash at the side of the road here shortly and will try to post it...fucking idiots just say ese no es mi problema. It get's cleaned up a bit by the airport and the resorts or whenever there is an election coming up.

In Santo Domingo they are starting to pay people to bring in bags of garbage for recycling (they get food not money), there's another initiative from a NGO that wants to bring a recycling machine down and convert the plastic to roofing tiles but i'm skeptical it will work.

 

[MrSquished]

Nothing to see here. Most righties don't think mankind has the ability to affect the environment.