McDonalds answer to $15/hr min wages

[sportage]

$15. $7.25.
Doesn't matter.
For fast food, even $7.25 is too much for them to pay in their opinion.
And besides, someone needs to flip the burgers and hand fires out of the window.
So the Mac would save, what? Maybe one less employee going automation?
People can't live off $7 an hour anyway. $7 would qualify for food stamps and welfare.
So just cut out the $7 and live off Trumpcare the food stamp king.
I say Trump because Trump is about to inherit the crown.
Food stamps, welfare and poverty is not some Obama thing as republicans would want people to believe, poverty is an American economic issue.
As long as jobs move to Mexico, and wages in America flatline, every president from now until the end of time will be known as the food stamp president.
It only gets worse, not better.
And we all thought socialism was some Bernie Sanders thing.....
Food stamps and welfare IS the future for most Americans.
And that means socialism from shore to shore.

 

[hardhat]

What's really funny is that he thinks that a salesman's function cannot be replaced by automation or outsourcing. He is one of the lucky ones who happened to grow up during a time of great economic opportunity where a person with next to no education could get a great job, earn a six figure salary, and live in a 5000 sq foot house. This used to be possible, but is extremely unlikely nowadays. His hubris is such that he thinks all of his success is of his own hands, and doesn't understand that the world has moved on. He didn't need a college education with 35k debt to get a decent job, so no one else needs it. They are just lazy, which is why they are working at McDonalds trying to survive until they can get a start in life (where they will probably earn closer to 45k/year than the six figures he got).
But when someone looks at a salesman's job, what part of it actually requires the human presence? Describing the product? Nowadays people can buy almost anything online, and if there's a question on the product, just email 'John' who works from India and he'll happily assist you while earning $3.50/hr. Is the salesman responsible for haggling for the 'best price'? As Amazon has demonstrated, a product's pricing is a result of supply and demand. It can easily be automated, or set by the original producer. Perhaps marketing is the salesman's special skill? After all, sales involves informing people about opportunities, and convincing them they should do business with you. How else could a potential client know about your excellent customer service? It certainly is too bad that there's no way for people to read reviews about companies to decide whether they should do business with them. In fact, the best reviews might be from previous clients! Customer reviews...what an idea....
The truth is 'sales' is being reduced down to a simple transaction management job nowadays. In fact, the most value that a salesman can bring to a business is by upselling a client. Kind of like "would you like fries with that?". So don't begrudge the salesmen their opinions, their 'path to advancement'. After all, the world isn't quite as fair to the 18 year old with no college nowadays.

 

[cubby1223]

I have on the job business education, acquired over many, many years.... I've always been of the belief that people are responsible for creating their own path to advancement.

The world has changed. The available paths from low-skill to high-skill are shrinking very fast because the low-skilled jobs have for the most part been exported. In order to receive "on-the-job business education" in many fields it is now a necessity to move to India to obtain that foot-in-the-door. I don't believe you would ever move to India to start your career if you were to live life over again.

You didn't fully create your own path. The path was always there for you, you simply chose to take it. Well, the path behind you is now gone. It doesn't exist anymore.


I'm currently in the software development / data warehousing world, it's becoming scary how much knowledge for the future exists solely in Asia & India, the knowledge is hardly being developed at all in the U.S. because no corporation is willing to pay U.S. salaries for development. Good friend of mine is in the semiconductor field, and there too it is scary how much knowledge for the future exists solely in Asia, specifically China & Taiwan. The U.S. and our workers have little future in these fields, these are not self-taught topics reading books and becoming experts, they require large team coordination that must be funded. All the funding takes place in Asia.

 

[theeedude]

Kind of hard to sell stuff to a kiosk robot.

 

[Jaskalas]

Our "economic collapse" during what is universally the most prosperous era in human history? I'll just log that under rape culture and the wage gap.

I'm sure America was quite "prosperous" under the absurd context of human history, with bread lines, dust bowls, and all. The depression may have been envied by some kids starving in Africa. That comparison is a Wall Street talking point, belligerent to the fact that our wages are worth less than our parents and grandparents.

Prosperous era for who?

You are blind to not recognize the END of the Middle Class. To not see poverty spreading and welfare rising. To not see the people clamoring for more while Wall Street gives them less. A slave class is the most profitable, so why do you imagine it is not the inevitable result? Our chosen path?

It is self evident in the cutting of wages and the elimination of jobs. Violence and force is not the only form of enslavement. You can control people economically. What would you do for food stamps?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Capitalism is clearly meant to be answered in bread lines.

It seems to me a volatile creature, one bereft of all concern except its natural pursuit of profit. In a simpler world that meant a rising tide to "lift all boats". But corruption has run deep, and American workers compete with slave labor so cheap that you can ship goods across the planet sooner than hire a worker for the same value as their parents.

Is there no going back to a time where you could "pump gas" and "feed a family"? Apparently not. America's golden age is WELL behind us, remaining only in tales told by the baby boomers as they sing their last farewells. Theirs, a world where American capitalism made us all rich... has died along with them.

Every year Americans grow poorer. Every year social services must be raised to meet the growing demand... and fail to do so. It is not enough. It simply can never be enough. Our entire economic model is a Bernard Madoff ponzi scheme demanding infinite growth or untold failure. It gets worse. We cut costs and "compete" with Asia, and the rest of the planet with no regard civil, environmental, or labor laws.

You witness the fruits of free trade and Wall Street valuations of the "people". For us to be whittled down unto slave labor. I say to you, if our labor no longer has value... enough to sustain ourselves... then capitalism no longer has value.

Want people to be back in power? Kill off this whole feminist movement of women in the workplace and go back to stay-at-home moms (or dads).

Nothing against women working, but when you magically almost double your labor force it kinda has a stinging affect on supply/demand.

 

[ivwshane]

Want people to be back in power? Kill off this whole feminist movement of women in the workplace and go back to stay-at-home moms (or dads).

Nothing against women working, but when you magically almost double your labor force it kinda has a stinging affect on supply/demand.

Kind of hard to do when two incomes is barely enough. Do you think that half the workforce leaving will suddenly cause a rise in wages? So how long should people struggle while they wait for corporations to raise wages?

 

[zinfamous]

Want people to be back in power? Kill off this whole feminist movement of women in the workplace and go back to stay-at-home moms (or dads).

Nothing against women working, but when you magically almost double your labor force it kinda has a stinging affect on supply/demand.

you really do suck at economics, yeah?

 

[Darwin333]

I love capitalism. Capitalism is why my wife and I were able to raise our kids in a 5000 sf house that we had custom built. I've only had one full time hourly job in my life and that was back in the early 80's, but it ended due to the effects of the recession. As luck would have it, the only jobs I was able to find, were sales jobs. Most of my adult life I've earned a 6 figure annual income, mostly on straight commission. I'm confident that I could be dropped off in a strange city with only my clothes and I would be employed within 48 hours and have a good paycheck shortly after. I've always chosen a job where the employer offered health insurance, so never really been without that either. Am I well educated? Not at all. I barely have a HS diploma. I got married at 19yo and our first child was born when I was 20. I have on the job business education, acquired over many, many years. My dad had a sit down with me one day and told me that I would probably never get a well paying job, given my education, unless I learned sales and found a job in it. I've always been of the belief that people are responsible for creating their own path to advancement. So when I hear stories of people complaining and pushing for higher minimum wages for Mcjobs, the only way I can respond is to challenge them to do something about their situation and accept some responsibility for the path their life is on.

So it is your position that everyone in the US can make 6 figures?

 

[Jaskalas]

Women are in the workforce. Unskilled labor floods the border. Jobs have been offshored. These are bells that cannot be unrung. The world is not balanced on the same economic ground as the 1950s. We look back to see what wages we've lost, not how to plan for the future.

The kiosks are the obvious solution to most labor today. Automation is coming, and like never before. We must be prepared to live in a world where labor is worth little to nothing and productivity is still soaring. We must turn that profit into a basic income to maintain a fluid economy of people able to consume and facilitate the liquidity of the market.

Maybe that feature needs to be the underpinning of a capitalist system, but as it stands now we have a growing crisis where labor continues to provide less to our people. Our current efforts pale in comparison to what needs to be done to secure a bright future for all Americans.

 

[desy]

Again, GLOBALIZATION
What was possible in the past is not what is possible today.
People went to two income families because women deserver careers too and secondly middle income collapse because of globalization.
Sales careers are the highest paying jobs in NA Trump puts salesman on his income tax, Salesmen make 90% of reported income, not everyone can be a salesman, great that some with weak education can as its a unique skillset, one that is rewarded well in a sales economy.
Because we are gravitating to a world economy the unique great times of NA will be equalized with the rest. NA though will still be one of the best places to live. So heavily resourced with a lower relative population means it can still be a great place to live and will be with realistic expectations

 

[Nograts]

Women are in the workforce. Unskilled labor floods the border. Jobs have been offshored. These are bells that cannot be unrung. The world is not balanced on the same economic ground as the 1950s. We look back to see what wages we've lost, not how to plan for the future.

The kiosks are the obvious solution to most labor today. Automation is coming, and like never before. We must be prepared to live in a world where labor is worth little to nothing and productivity is still soaring. We must turn that profit into a basic income to maintain a fluid economy of people able to consume and facilitate the liquidity of the market.

Maybe that feature needs to be the underpinning of a capitalist system, but as it stands now we have a growing crisis where labor continues to provide less to our people. Our current efforts pale in comparison to what needs to be done to secure a bright future for all Americans.

What's the end state then? Capitalism gives way to near-full automation and we all go about our lives living off of a basic wage just for existing or a socialist system? Do people who own the automation facilities through inheritance get more than the rest of us?

 

[Greenman]

McKiosks!

I for one welcome these automated underlings

Think about the things that have displaced labor in the past, the list is endless. In the construction industry this has been happening non stop. Backhoes replaced ditch diggers, paint sprayers displaced thousands of painters, nail guns cut innumerable hours out of framing. It's called progress, and like it or not it's going to continue.

 

[nickqt]

Kind of hard to sell stuff to a kiosk robot.

Yes, but they'll be great for short-term increases in profits...just long enough for a few more shareholders to extract their wealth from society and move behind guarded fences in their private gated communities, as the rest of civilization gets poorer and more desperate.

Hypercapitalism: where short-term greed Trumps everything else, because fuck it, I got mine, Jack - piss off ya rabble.

America!

 

[smackababy]

I welcome a fast food ordering system that can get my order correct more than 50% of the time, which is a feat yet to be experienced at any McDonalds.

 

[hasu]

Automation is good. It is high time that we realize that and be willing to divide the available work. May be it is time to have 4 day work weeks and handle that with employee rotation.

 

[Darwin333]

Yes, but they'll be great for short-term increases in profits...just long enough for a few more shareholders to extract their wealth from society and move behind guarded fences in their private gated communities, as the rest of civilization gets poorer and more desperate.

Hypercapitalism: where short-term greed Trumps everything else, because fuck it, I got mine, Jack - piss off ya rabble.

America!

Some would call it progress. Automation is almost always a job killer in whatever field but at the same time society has greatly benefited from automation. Hell something as simple as a crane that is used in construction can be considered automation and it damn sure killed a ton of jobs. Would we really be better off had we not invented cranes and still had people using rope and pulleys?

 

[John Connor]

Automation and robotics like it or not is going to take over. We will adjust as we did many decades ago when the major job was farming.

 

[Ns1]

a shop is opening up in my hood, here's their answer to $15 minimum wage

 

[Blanky]

Seen these in panera also.

$15/hour is just going to accelerate the replaced-by-automation trend in low-end labor. These people will not only not have their $15/hour but not their $10/hour, either.

 

[Ns1]

Seen these in panera also.

$15/hour is just going to accelerate the replaced-by-automation trend in low-end labor. These people will not only not have their $15/hour but not their $10/hour, either.

Well, one person will have the $15 job - the person who oversees the 5 iPad mini's being used to take orders.

 

[HeXen]

Sweet. At least if the machine isn't paying attention then it can only mean it is me that isn't paying attention.. Those sorry jacks behind the counters can't pay attention to a word I say. How hard is it to hear the words "without pickles"...that means don't put any pickles on it god damnit!!!

 

[highland145]

Sweet. At least if the machine isn't paying attention then it can only mean it is me that isn't paying attention.. Those sorry jacks behind the counters can't pay attention to a word I say. How hard is it to hear the words "without pickles"...that means don't put any pickles on it god damnit!!!

You can punch it in the face...


I think this is a bad idea for society in general. Assaulting ques is the start of a bad day in the life of ques.

 

[UglyCasanova]

You still haven't shown this to be the case.

how can this possibly not be the case? All things equal any good business owner will attempt to control expenses to maximize returns. The technology to replace very low skilled workers just wasn't there in the past, but the skill of automated tech is quickly catching up to that of a human, and when the cost of labor is artificially inflated that makes the tech replacement that much more attractive.

 

[ivwshane]

how can this possibly not be the case? All things equal any good business owner will attempt to control expenses to maximize returns. The technology to replace very low skilled workers just wasn't there in the past, but the skill of automated tech is quickly catching up to that of a human, and when the cost of labor is artificially inflated that makes the tech replacement that much more attractive.

Sure, until the smart business person sees what the TCO is and the impacts are to their business and realizes robots have their place but are still a ways off in being able to replace humans.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-halting-robots-reign-on-the-production-line