ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
- 6,137
- 225
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I'm not dodging any question.
I don't know how old you are. But lets say your 80+ something and well, someone sued the crap out of you because you tried to drive with out your glasses on and you killed 4 people in a multi car accident and was proved to be your fault. Now you have lost your home, and your savings has been wiped out. Now what do you do? Your too old to work and well, you can't rely on SS to save you since you think it's a scam and well, you didn't do anything to save it and it's gone.
So, you apply for every federal hand out you can and live out your life eating from garbage cans and sleepless nights out on the street! Thanks to you! it's shifting tax away from the productive to the unproductive. Oh well! Lucky you!
But!!!! But!!!!!!!!! This can't happen to you ... you say! You never know and when SS does fail I hope you are there to find out since it happens to people daily. You never know when you gonna get scammed or when the market it going to turn or getting sued ... the list is endless to reasons why people one day have the good life and the next day they are wondering what went wrong and where it wall went.
I am kinda wondering if this little scenario played out like above and SS was offered to you would you take it or would you be man enough to live on the streets because to you SS is just a scam.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
You have yet to answer the question. YOU claimed he didn't understand(or misspoke) so please state what exactly you think was wrong with what he stated.
I doubt people understand what the SS trust fund really is. if they understood all those bonds are nothing more than IOU's that are paid by the tax payer they would change their tune.
Secondly just because something has always been a certain way doesnt mean it should stay planted and never change. I mean we can go down the slippery slope and it gets ugly.
The avg lifespan of people when SS passed was about 60 years of age. That means on avg 50% of the population would never collect SS. Yet it was sold to people as a retirement safety net. Then you tack on the fact congress raids its surplus's every year to pay for things that have nothing to do with retirement. It is nothing but a giant scam.
- Mar 20, 2000
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just because it's always worked as a pay as you go system doesn't mean that is the best set up.
not to mention mccain stating how it works is not mccain demonstrating that he lacks a basic understanding of how it works. obviously mccain does have a basic understanding of how it works, he just said how it works. you even agreed with him on how it works!
what else are they supposed to do with it? they can't just stuff it in a mattress in the lincoln bedroom.
herm0016
Diamond Member
- Feb 26, 2005
- 8,516
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Many people do not understand this, which is exactly what he said... what the heck are you all getting on about?
I can not seem to find a specific survey to back this up, but i have seen them, you could just walk out the door and ask 50 young people.
You better hope for social security to be solvent or 99% of you won't be able to pay for your meds.
ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
- 6,137
- 225
- 106
what about the millions that are on SS now as their only source of income. You got a better plan for them? Or do we Just Fix It?
hahaha what a joke.
I don't need SS and probably never will, tho. I'm not about to waste it away on a slush fund. Yes it is and will be a scam but sold to American Public that it will be your safety net.
Now what? Are you going to give me back thousands of dollars with my compound interest? I doubt it. Not sure what his plan is.
I'm not gonna guess what he said I think he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about at least it appears that way to me.
The raiding of the suprplus is a scam. SS is not, it's an effective program that helps millions of seniors not be in poverty, while most seniors were in poverty before SS.
Which is why it sucks. The AARP is akin to a gang of thugs who found someone else to do their shakedown work.
You do realize that Republicans only gained control of both chambers in '94, and lost both in '06, right? That's, what, 12 years of control, right? So we can agree BOTH parties are to blame, I guess?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
He's just waiting for the talking points memo to be posted to make sure he gets it right.... OR he just won't answer.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Yep. Have you seen their "divided we fail" ads? What a bunch of BS. They don't want anything done yet their commercials say they want more than just talk. Sorry but if there really was a national debate/dialog on this issue, the AARP and the SS fluffers would come up on the short end of the stick IMO. If people were educated on the subject of SS, they'd be quite unhappy and likely strip the program down to a realistic level.
OK, here you go:
In the case of Flemming v. Nestor [363 U.S. 603 (1960)], the US Supreme Court addressed the issue of what SS was. They held:
The program is financed through a payroll tax levied on employees in covered employment, and on their employers. The tax rate, which is a fixed percentage of the first $4,800 of employee annual income, is set at a scale which will increase from year to year, presumably to keep pace with rising benefit costs. I.R.C. of 1954, §§ 3101, 3111, 3121(a). The tax proceeds are paid into the Treasury "as internal revenue collections," I.R.C., § 3501, and each year an amount equal to the proceeds is appropriated to a Trust Fund, from which benefits and the expenses of the program are paid. § 201, 42 U.S.C. § 401. It was evidently contemplated that receipts would greatly exceed disbursements in the early years of operation of the system, and surplus funds are invested in government obligations, and the income returned to the Trust Fund. Thus, provision is made for expected increasing costs of the program.
The Social Security system may be accurately described as a form of social insurance, enacted pursuant to Congress' power to "spend money in aid of the general welfare,'" Helvering v. Davis, supra, at 301 U. S. 640, whereby persons gainfully employed, and those who employ them, are taxed to permit the payment of benefits to the retired and disabled, and their dependents. Plainly the expectation is that many members of the present productive work force will in turn become beneficiaries rather than supporters of the program. But each worker's benefits, though flowing from the contributions he made to the national economy while actively employed, are not dependent on the degree to which he was called upon to support the system by taxation. It is apparent that the noncontractual interest of an employee covered by the Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments.
Thus, the Court clearly held that payments into SS were a tax, not any sort of deposit or premium, and workers had no contractual right to any proceeds from the program. If that's not a scam, what is?
And more importantly, how can you piss and moan about the sham "Trust Fund" being raided when the system was clearly set up from the beginning to regard proceeds as among any other "internal revenue collections" which Congress may spend as they see fit? The Trust Fund always existed only as an accounting exercise, not an actual trust fund, and that was clear from the beginning. Did you seriously think Congress could be trusted to safeguard SS funds? That's like trusting your dog to safeguard a pile of raw meat.
lupi
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2001
- 32,539
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And let's not forget that SS has been neutered before when the COL figures were changed in the 70s so the amount payed out could be reduced, so future changes would not be breaking some precedence. Besides, if overall spending doesn't decrease to get the debt in control then when all the boomers are drawing and really start cranking up the debt level the government will either seriously crank up everyones tax rate or will do a wholesale slashing of programs cause even china's not going to float that big of a loan.
- Mar 20, 2000
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they're obviously going to start slashing the SS payouts to the 'rich'
of course, seeing as how the people getting SS are the wealthiest segment of society (by age), we'll probably end up with almost no one on SS.
so, not only is it an intergenerational wealth transfer, it's also the most regressive tax in the country.
and i'd still like to know what else is supposed to happen to the SS 'trust fund.'
would you rather it be filled with zero interest bearer bonds, or would you rather it be filled with interest bearing bonds?
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