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McCain camp throws low blow at Obama

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Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: OrByte

But the bill goes so far as to repeatedly state that all sex education is age and 'developmentally' appropriate.
All of that sounds like GREAT IDEAS!
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And I'm sure the government/school board etc.. will have the same view as yours. Particularly seeing how that list comes an organization that says it "challenge the misinformation about sexual and reproductive health the Far Right has been espousing" and "tracked and responded to right-wing attacks on sexual and reproductive health and rights in the United States". And has a branch called the "International Right Wing Watch".

But these are just talking points, they are probably harmless. I mean it's not like they are "succeeded in getting legislative language supporting comprehensive sexuality education and guaranteeing medical accuracy in sex education introduced in the House and Senate" or "educated all 535 members of Congress as well as countless state and local policymakers on comprehensive sexuality education" or "helped thousands of educators by providing specialized technical assistance, guidance, information, and resources".
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ok so now you are arguing that because this SEICUS group is partisan that whatever it is they say isn't worth following in or believing in.

OK then FINE. I wasn't the one citing this group as a source you were. And I wasn't the one erroneously claiming that their guideline is to be used as a lesson plan, that was you.

I couldn't care less about SEICUS. I have never heard of them and I quite frankly don't give two shits about them. You were the one that made the logical leap between SB99 from Illinois (which if you read SB99 you would see its actions are perfectly reasonable) and this SEICUS guideline being the lesson plan for Illinois sex education.

If you don't like SEICUS, thats fine by me. But don't pass their GUIDELINE off as a LESSON PLAN. That is being deceitful.

where did you get this talking point? They are feeding you BAAD information.
 
Originally posted by: OrByte

I couldn't care less about SEICUS. I have never heard of them and I quite frankly don't give two shits about them. You were the one that made the logical leap between SB99 from Illinois (which if you read SB99 you would see its actions are perfectly reasonable) and this SEICUS guideline being the lesson plan for Illinois sex education.
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And where in that bill whose main function is to drop the age for beginning sex ed from 6th grade to kindergarten a definition of "age appropriate".

Did i refer to it as a lesson plan? I think i describe it as talking points based on student age.

where did you get this talking point? They are feeding you BAAD information.
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From their yearly mission statement 🙂
 
"Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV."
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The wording prior to this bill was grades 6-12. Obama supported the change to K - 12.

And no, I don't think many parents want their kindergartners instructed on how to use a condom.

/thread
 
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: OrByte

I couldn't care less about SEICUS. I have never heard of them and I quite frankly don't give two shits about them. You were the one that made the logical leap between SB99 from Illinois (which if you read SB99 you would see its actions are perfectly reasonable) and this SEICUS guideline being the lesson plan for Illinois sex education.
Click to expand...

And where in that bill whose main function is to drop the age for beginning sex ed from 6th grade to kindergarten a definition of "age appropriate".

Did i refer to it as a lesson plan? I think i describe it as talking points based on student age.

where did you get this talking point? They are feeding you BAAD information.
Click to expand...

From their yearly mission statement 🙂
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OK so you concede that this guideline is not a lesson plan? or curriculum? These "talking points" are not to be used to educate students. They are to be used as I outlined above in a previous post.

and what kind of definition of "age appropriate" are you looking for? From what I can see, "age appropriate isn't defined in SB99. But I don't see how that matters any.
 
Originally posted by: quest55720
That ad was over the line about as dirty as you can get. It sucks McCain is resorting to that type of attack.
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It works just like wille horton and before that Lyndon Johnson - Daisy that is why it is being used and it tells us more about the American public than either candidate and how they can be easily manipulated through fear and greed.

 
Originally posted by: hellokeith
"Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV."
Click to expand...

The wording prior to this bill was grades 6-12. Obama supported the change to K - 12.

And no, I don't think many parents want their kindergartners instructed on how to use a condom.

/thread
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I dont think I want my kindergarten teacher to teach my kids anything related to sex education. Thats my job.

but are you trying to be sarcastic? do you really think that kindergarten teachers are going to teach about condoms?

 
Originally posted by: OrByte
I dont think I want my kindergarten teacher to teach my kids anything related to sex education. Thats my job.
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That would pretty much be our point.

but are you trying to be sarcastic? do you really think that kindergarten teachers are going to teach about condoms?
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What's to stop them "Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS. Nothing in this Section prohibits instruction in sanitation, hygiene or traditional courses in biology."

And if you do want to feel a little creepy, reread the Ill bill for the portions to be newly added and then go look back at the SEICUS brochure. You'll happen to notice that section headings for items to be discussed and the purpose for instruction are earily similar including some of the stuff I posted in this thread.
 
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: OrByte
I dont think I want my kindergarten teacher to teach my kids anything related to sex education. Thats my job.
Click to expand...

That would pretty much be our point.

but are you trying to be sarcastic? do you really think that kindergarten teachers are going to teach about condoms?
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What's to stop them "Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV AIDS. Nothing in this Section prohibits instruction in sanitation, hygiene or traditional courses in biology."

And if you do want to feel a little creepy, reread the Ill bill for the portions to be newly added and then go look back at the SEICUS brochure. You'll happen to notice that section headings for items to be discussed and the purpose for instruction are earily similar including some of the stuff I posted in this thread.
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I was about to call you a fucking moron, but actually all you are is a fucking liar. You know that you're deliberately misrepresenting this, but you're so blindly, stupidly partisan that you'll dip to anything.

Why don't you grow up man? I mean seriously, why do you bother coming to these boards if all you're going to do is ruin them for everyone else with shit this stupid? Stop acting like an angry teenager.
 
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Brilliant Ad. Brilliant move by McCain. Sure he won't have an ounce of credibility or integrity left but he may just win at this rate.
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You gotta have an ounce of it first before you can lose and ounce of it.

 
Originally posted by: her209
When is it "age appropriate"?
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I'd feel pretty safe saying that pre-6th grade most parents would answer that in the school is not the answer.
 
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: her209
When is it "age appropriate"?
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I'd feel pretty safe saying that pre-6th grade most parents would answer that in the school is not the answer.
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Then shouldn't they be doing it at home? It's ultimately the parents' job but they aren't doing it. Worse, most of the molestation is done by someone the child knows, most likely in the family.
 
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: her209
When is it "age appropriate"?
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I'd feel pretty safe saying that pre-6th grade most parents would answer that in the school is not the answer.
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Then shouldn't they be doing it at home? It's ultimately the parents' job but they aren't doing it. Worse, most of the molestation is done by someone the child knows, most likely in the family.
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Do you want to start passing laws on what parents should be doing or what most of us call common sense; and people think the jails are packed now.
 
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: Dari
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: her209
When is it "age appropriate"?
Click to expand...

I'd feel pretty safe saying that pre-6th grade most parents would answer that in the school is not the answer.
Click to expand...

Then shouldn't they be doing it at home? It's ultimately the parents' job but they aren't doing it. Worse, most of the molestation is done by someone the child knows, most likely in the family.
Click to expand...

Do you want to start passing laws on what parents should be doing or what most of us call common sense; and people think the jails are packed now.
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Can you read? Obviously there would be no need for such a law if parents were actually talking about this with their kids. The law also allows parents to opt their children out of this program. I agree that this is common sense, but common sense is severly lacking in today's society. Look at all the stupid things people do. Obviously there should be no law forcing people to wear seatbelts but the fine in NYC is $90.

People are stupid. Stupid parents are far worse.
 
Originally posted by: Zorba
Originally posted by: lupi
yeah, you'd think they've leave that type of basic instruction for the parent, but why do that when you could have a stranger teach your kindergarten kid so much more. Things such as


? A boy/man has nipples, a penis, a scrotum, and testicles.
? A girl/woman has breasts, nipples, a vulva, a clitoris, a vagina, a uterus, and ovaries.
? Some sexual or reproductive organs, such as penises and vulvas, are external or on the outside of the body while others, such as ovaries and testicles, are internal or inside the body.
? Both boys and girls have body parts that feel good when touched.
? Puberty is a time of physical and emotional change that happens as children become teenagers.
? People are able to have children only after they have reached puberty.
? When a woman is pregnant, the fetus grows inside her body in her uterus.
? A woman can be pregnant with more than one fetus at a time.
? Babies usually come out of a woman?s body through an opening called a vagina.
? Some babies are born by an operation called a Caesarian Section.
? A woman?s breasts can provide milk for a baby.
? Not all men and women have children.
? People who cannot have children may choose to adopt.
? Men and women have reproductive organs that enable them to have a child.
? Men and women have specific cells in their bodies (sperm cells and egg cells) that enable them to reproduce.
? Reproduction requires that a sperm and egg join.
? Vaginal intercourse ? when a penis is placed inside a vagina ? is the most common way for a sperm and egg to join.
? Human beings can love people of the same gender and people of another gender.
? Some people are heterosexual, which means they can be attracted to and fall in love with someone of another gender.
? Some people are homosexual, which means they can be attracted to and fall in love with someone of the same gender.
? Homosexual men and women are also known as gay men and lesbians.
? People deserve respect regardless of who they are attracted to.
? Making fun of people by calling them gay (e.g. ?homo,? ?i love you,? ?queer?) is disrespectful and hurtful.
? Touching and rubbing one?s own genitals to feel good is called masturbation.
? Some boys and girls masturbate and others do not.
? Masturbation should be done in a private place.
? People often kiss, hug, touch, and engage in other sexual behaviors with one another to show caring and to feel good.
? Both girls and boys may discover that their bodies feel good when touched.
? Sometimes women become pregnant when they do not want to be or are unable to care for a child.


I mean, who wacked out type of person would be uncomputable with any of that being taught to their K-schooler.
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Where the fuck did that list come from? Give a link to shows it has anything at all to do with Obama and Kindergartners. You damn wingnuts just love innuendo.
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I would like to see Zorba's question answered with a link that without a shadow of a doubt proves that everything in this list is what Obama is referring to when he uses the phrase "age appropriate".

Until that proof can be provided, I suggest all of you take this lightly.
 
Originally posted by: JD50
He already said where he got the list from, scroll up.
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I saw that. I wanted to read it and I wanted to see proof that Obama agreed with every word of it rather than just portions of it.

Look, the bottom line here is that lupi doesn't even have kids IIRC. What the hell does he know about this sort of thing? I have a kid in KG and have no problem teaching him things which involve being aware where other people are not allowed to touch him. His mother and I started teaching him that at the age of 3 and it was perfectly fine. We are responsible enough to do that for our kid but we can't control what other parents do or do not do as well as when they choose to do it. Many wait too long. I am glad the schools are trying to make up for their slack. There is nothing about this stuff which is harmful.

It is always hilarious when people come on these boards making all sorts of tough talk about parenting and kids when they have zero first hand experience. They are like teenagers that think they know everything and what is even worse is that some of you just eat it up as if they are experts on the matter.
 
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: JD50
He already said where he got the list from, scroll up.
Click to expand...

I saw that. I wanted to read it and I wanted to see proof that Obama agreed with every word of it rather than just portions of it.

Look, the bottom line here is that lupi doesn't even have kids IIRC. What the hell does he know about this sort of thing? I have a kid in KG and have no problem teaching him things which involve being aware where other people are not allowed to touch him. His mother and I started teaching him that at the age of 3 and it was perfectly fine. We are responsible enough to do that for our kid but we can't control what other parents do or do not do as well as when they choose to do it. Many wait too long. I am glad the schools are trying to make up for their slack. There is nothing about this stuff which is harmful.

It is always hilarious when people come on these boards making all sorts of tough talk about parenting and kids when they have zero first hand experience. They are like teenagers that think they know everything and what is even worse is that some of you just eat it up as if they are experts on the matter.
Click to expand...

I see this post is full of fail and lack of knowledge. As I recall it's you whom doesn't have a kid as you married some chick that had gotten knocked up by someone else and complain that the actual father doesn't pay you enough for getting involved in that situation.

No wonder Cosby gets so much flak from the type posting in this thread, why worry about personal responsibility when you can have bumper to bumper legislative cover. Guess they are wasted their time talking about economic reform and rebuiling industry is the standard citizen is going to be treated as one who would have difficulty getting a job watching the counter at 7-11.

Have you read the bill before speaking about ? Did you notice that the revised purposes match extremely well with those from that sex ed insitute. Did you know their program has 6 sections with 4 tiers for age level. Did you notice that the specific areas of interest in the bill are also written with a striking similarity of those 6 areas. About the only thing that bill doesn't include is the specific guideline topics per age group, many of the tier 1 I pasted earlier, and instead simply leaves the well defined never possible to be loopholed "age appropriate" statement.

But continue to come along and make statements regarding people posting on things they don't know about, or for a more general understanding, posting present.
 
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: JD50
He already said where he got the list from, scroll up.
Click to expand...

I saw that. I wanted to read it and I wanted to see proof that Obama agreed with every word of it rather than just portions of it.

Look, the bottom line here is that lupi doesn't even have kids IIRC. What the hell does he know about this sort of thing? I have a kid in KG and have no problem teaching him things which involve being aware where other people are not allowed to touch him. His mother and I started teaching him that at the age of 3 and it was perfectly fine. We are responsible enough to do that for our kid but we can't control what other parents do or do not do as well as when they choose to do it. Many wait too long. I am glad the schools are trying to make up for their slack. There is nothing about this stuff which is harmful.

It is always hilarious when people come on these boards making all sorts of tough talk about parenting and kids when they have zero first hand experience. They are like teenagers that think they know everything and what is even worse is that some of you just eat it up as if they are experts on the matter.
Click to expand...

I see this post is full of fail and lack of knowledge. As I recall it's you whom doesn't have a kid as you married some chick that had gotten knocked up by someone else and complain that the actual father doesn't pay you enough for getting involved in that situation.

No wonder Cosby gets so much flak from the type posting in this thread, why worry about personal responsibility when you can have bumper to bumper legislative cover. Guess they are wasted their time talking about economic reform and rebuiling industry is the standard citizen is going to be treated as one who would have difficulty getting a job watching the counter at 7-11.

Have you read the bill before speaking about ? Did you notice that the revised purposes match extremely well with those from that sex ed insitute. Did you know their program has 6 sections with 4 tiers for age level. Did you notice that the specific areas of interest in the bill are also written with a striking similarity of those 6 areas. About the only thing that bill doesn't include is the specific guideline topics per age group, many of the tier 1 I pasted earlier, and instead simply leaves the well defined never possible to be loopholed "age appropriate" statement.

But continue to come along and make statements regarding people posting on things they don't know about, or for a more general understanding, posting present.
Click to expand...

Sigh... I have been my stepson's daily father figure since he was 1 and he is now in kindergarden. In regards to his real father, he has a court order to pay child support and he doesn't do it like so many others. I don't want him to pay me. I want him to pay for the expenses of his son as ordered by our court of law....or do you not believe in our court system? Do you believe he is above the law? I can understand if you disagree with the law but there is a difference between that and people being allowed to act above those laws.

On a less personal note, you can complain about personal responsibility all you want but the bottom line is that people are not being personally responsible about this matter now even without the schools teaching this stuff in the way that bill describes. So, by having it in schools, we really haven't changed anything other than ensuring that the kids get taught the info that they need. There is nothing wrong with that.

I have said it before and I will say it again. The government cannot change how personally responsible the people are for better or for worse. In this case, adding this stuff in the schools is not going to stop any parents who are already responsible enough to teach it to their kids. As a parent who is in regular contact with many other parents, I guarantee it.

While I am just one guy with one opinion. At least I am a responsible parent with that opinion, unlike Lupi who is just here yapping away with zero real life experience on this matter.
 
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