McBush's Next Big Con On The American People

jpeyton

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Video

We know that the oil "crisis" is an artificial construct. Production is at record levels, demand is down, supplies are high; yet in five short months, from February of this year to now, we've seen an unprecedented increase in retail gas prices from $3/gallon to $4/gallon. Day after day of new record oil prices and record gas prices with no end in sight.

When our economy faced larger percentage increases in the past; when it doubled from $1/gallon to $2/gallon, or jumped 50% from $2/gallon to $3/gallon, our economy adjusted because it was a slow market driven increase. But when you go from $3/gallon to $4/gallon between February and June, the wheels come off the wagon. People are looking for the quickest, cheapest, most politically-safe fix possible.

In the big picture, who has the most to gain from this increase? Think long term. Oil companies have been lobbying for years for our government to open up coastlines, national wildlife preserves, and any other promising piece of real estate to drilling. Bush and his family are chest deep in big oil, so it's no surprise he's already bought that ticket, but McCain has also jumped on the bandwagon. If you watched the video above, you'll know that he's lined his ranks and his pockets with big oil lobbyists and money.

Will American's be conned into jumping on the bandwagon as well? I hope not. I'd like to think we're smart enough to think beyond our short term gains and preserve the natural wealth of our country for our children.

What kind of America would you rather have, now and in the future? This and this? Or this and this?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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long term, why shouldn't we open up federal ocean land for off-shore drilling?

we're talking 50 miles off the coast and it'll be up to individual states. those two pictures are ludicrous.
 

Queasy

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Originally posted by: jpeyton
What kind of America would you rather have, now and in the future? This and this? Or this and this?

We don't have enough threads on this?

You're also being disingenuous with the pics as every proposal for off-shore drilling has been to limit drilling to 50 miles or more off-shore. That would do nothing to harm sunsets on beaches.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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I don't understand why people are so against using more of our own resources WHILE we come up with other solutions. At best, we are a decade away from any implementation of any real world solutions and even longer to get a substantial percentage of the US population switched over. Unless we come up with a solution that uses existing cars/infrastructure which is unlikely.
 

Robor

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Oct 9, 1999
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As a Floridian I'm on the fence on drilling in the currently off limits waters. I must say that using the misleading images above as arguments against it are not helping the cause.
 

Red Dawn

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Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Darwin333
I don't understand why people are so against using more of our own resources WHILE we come up with other solutions. At best, we are a decade away from any implementation of any real world solutions and even longer to get a substantial percentage of the US population switched over. Unless we come up with a solution that uses existing cars/infrastructure which is unlikely.

Let say Chevron or Exxon starts drilling offshore, what's to keep them from selling that oil to anybody they want for any price that can get?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Darwin333
I don't understand why people are so against using more of our own resources WHILE we come up with other solutions. At best, we are a decade away from any implementation of any real world solutions and even longer to get a substantial percentage of the US population switched over. Unless we come up with a solution that uses existing cars/infrastructure which is unlikely.

Let say Chevron or Exxon starts drilling offshore, what's to keep them from selling that oil to anybody they want for any price that can get?

what's stopping them from doing it right now?

serious question. I mean, we've already got offshore drilling setup in the gulf off the coasts of Louisiana and Texas, why aren't the drillers selling the oil to Cuba?
 

cliftonite

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Jul 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: jpeyton
What kind of America would you rather have, now and in the future? This and this? Or this and this?

We don't have enough threads on this?

You're also being disingenuous with the pics as every proposal for off-shore drilling has been to limit drilling to 50 miles or more off-shore. That would do nothing to harm sunsets on beaches.

What would you propose to do if the majority of those states reject off shore drilling?
 

Red Dawn

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Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Darwin333
I don't understand why people are so against using more of our own resources WHILE we come up with other solutions. At best, we are a decade away from any implementation of any real world solutions and even longer to get a substantial percentage of the US population switched over. Unless we come up with a solution that uses existing cars/infrastructure which is unlikely.

Let say Chevron or Exxon starts drilling offshore, what's to keep them from selling that oil to anybody they want for any price that can get?

what's stopping them from doing it right now?

serious question. I mean, we've already got offshore drilling setup in the gulf off the coasts of Louisiana and Texas, why aren't the drillers selling the oil to Cuba?
Don't know but if we already have a surplus wouldn't it make sense for them to sell it to China for as much as they can? Don't you think we should put restrictions on them on who they can sell it too, that is if we legally can.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: cliftonite
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: jpeyton
What kind of America would you rather have, now and in the future? This and this? Or this and this?

We don't have enough threads on this?

You're also being disingenuous with the pics as every proposal for off-shore drilling has been to limit drilling to 50 miles or more off-shore. That would do nothing to harm sunsets on beaches.

What would you propose to do if the majority of those states reject off shore drilling?

what is there to do?

the US government can provide benefits to the state and a pretty wide majority of Americans want it to happen, so we can vote out anyone who stands in the way state-wise, but the federal government isn't going to be sending in the national guard to build off-shore rigs.
 

Queasy

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Aug 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: cliftonite
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: jpeyton
What kind of America would you rather have, now and in the future? This and this? Or this and this?

We don't have enough threads on this?

You're also being disingenuous with the pics as every proposal for off-shore drilling has been to limit drilling to 50 miles or more off-shore. That would do nothing to harm sunsets on beaches.

What would you propose to do if the majority of those states reject off shore drilling?

California is a given to reject it. I can see a compromise being reached with Florida and and most of the east coast states. Alaska would love to have off shore drilling (and they actually have most of our coastline).

Who knows what we'd do. Probably have to gird ourselves against high energy prices for the forseeable future until we significantly reduce our energy consumption and/or those states wake up and see that they can be part of the solution.

The Dems proposal of Windfall Profit Taxes, Cap-and-Trade schemes, and suing OPEC aren't going to do anything for energy prices except raise them.
 

jpeyton

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Even if we opened up our coastlines to drilling today, it would be 3 to 5 years before we see a drop of oil from those platforms hit the market.

Oil companies are currently sitting on 68 million acres of explorable land they've leased from our government; why don't they drill that land instead of wrecking our coastlines and wildlife preserves?

I know why: because they have no incentive to flood the supply market and drive down prices when they're making $40 billion a year.

This is just more political lobbying from the highest ranking member of the Gas & Oil Party, and his clone from Arizona.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Even if we opened up our coastlines to drilling today, it would be 3 to 5 years before we see a drop of oil from those platforms hit the market.

Think long term.

what do you have against allowing states to decide for themselves?
 

RightIsWrong

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Apr 29, 2005
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Is it just me wondering this....

Does the US have any real say in anything beyond the 12 nautical mile "international water" borders and that some world body should be the one to grant or deny this?
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Oil companies are currently sitting on 68 million acres of explorable land they've leased from our government; why don't they drill that land instead of wrecking our coastlines and wildlife preserves?

I can think of numerous reasons.
1) Regulations
2) Environmental groups filing lawsuits to block any exploration and drilling.
3) The oil there is difficult/expensive to get to. Example: The Backen (sp) oil reserve in the Dakotas. There's something like 4 billion barrels of oil there but it is difficult to get to without employing directional drilling. Until the last few years, we didn't have the technology to do it. Now we do and they are currently drilling there.

And how would oil platforms 50+ miles off-shore wreck our coastlines? The environmental impact from Katrina cutting a swath through our Gulf oil platforms was nil despite three being destroyed and many being damaged. Except for an incident off the coast of California in 1969, I can't find an incident involving a US off-shore oil rig damaging a coast line.
 

Kntx

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Dec 11, 2000
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Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Is it just me wondering this....

Does the US have any real say in anything beyond the 12 nautical mile "international water" borders and that some world body should be the one to grant or deny this?

200 mile exclusive economic zone.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
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Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Even if we opened up our coastlines to drilling today, it would be 3 to 5 years before we see a drop of oil from those platforms hit the market.

Think long term.

what do you have against allowing states to decide for themselves?

It doesn't matter if they are allowed to decide it amongst themselves or not. All that matters is what the long term outcome will be with whatever decision is made. There are a lot of paths that can be taken which lead to worse situations than we are in now whether we decide to do offshore drilling or not. I want a lot more assurance that the time and money that we get from offshore drilling will actually contribute to very fast paced technological advancement which transforms the US into a country that is much less dependent on oil. If you believe that I should feel more confident that this will happen as a result of offshore drilling then please try to convince me. Contrary to what many believe based upon my previous posts, I really want to be convinced that this is guaranteed to happen.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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Originally posted by: Kntx
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Is it just me wondering this....

Does the US have any real say in anything beyond the 12 nautical mile "international water" borders and that some world body should be the one to grant or deny this?

200 mile exclusive economic zone.

Yep - this is a map showing where we are and aren't allowed to drill off-shore.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Even if we opened up our coastlines to drilling today, it would be 3 to 5 years before we see a drop of oil from those platforms hit the market.

Oil companies are currently sitting on 68 million acres of explorable land they've leased from our government; why don't they drill that land instead of wrecking our coastlines and wildlife preserves?

I know why: because they have no incentive to flood the supply market and drive down prices when they're making $40 billion a year.

This is just more political lobbying from the highest ranking member of the Gas & Oil Party, and his clone from Arizona.

Lol, that just doesn't make any sense. Most experts say that opening up more of our coast will do little to the price of oil. It might add some stability to the market but if Exxon brought 5 new wells online today the price of oil is not going to plummet to $50 a barrel.

With that said, you think the oil companies are sitting on tons of oil during times of record prices (to the extreme)? I see new wells being drilled all over the gulf coast of LA were there is very little resistance. I see them spending absurd amounts of money to build rigs that can drill in deeper and deeper water. Yet, they are just sitting on great oil fields that they could be drilling tomorrow? I doubt it.
 

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Don't know but if we already have a surplus wouldn't it make sense for them to sell it to China for as much as they can? Don't you think we should put restrictions on them on who they can sell it too, that is if we legally can.
restrictions on where it can be sold tend to decrease investment. if you had the choice of 2 places to put up a platform, and if everything else were equal, place 1 said you could sell it anywhere and place 2 said you could only sell it in place 2, you'd put the platform up in place 1.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
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If right now, "supplies are high," as you say in the OP, what good is more drilling going to do? Seems that the high prices are not due to supply/demand, but speculation. So increasing supply really wouldn't change the current scenario, right?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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People are looking for the quickest, cheapest, most politically-safe fix possible.

Gee you dont say
Obama's plan of windfall taxes(ask jimmah carter how that worked out), shoveling more public money into alternative energy sources that are decades away, and going after OPEC is much better for the avg consumer.

But what else can we expect from a bot who would gladly toss 600 american families away for one Al Gore? You dont have any compassion nor care for the avg American consumer.

Closing off our supplies is why we ship money overseas. Your plan is to keep these area's closed off while our demand continues to climb and we are forced to import more? Let me guess, then you come back complaining about importing oil?

Brilliant!

I'd love to se McSame take Obama to task on this issue in a public debate. Flat out have Obama tell us how windfall taxes, going after OPEC, and plowing federal money into alternative energy will help gasoline prices at the pump today.
 

BansheeX

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Sep 10, 2007
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Great, another NIMBY (not in my backyard) supporter. That's done us really great these last thirty years... Blocked domestic oil production, blocked nuclear power, hell this philosophy even blocks renewables like wind and solar. And here we are, caught with our pants down while FRANCE of all fucking people are 79% nuclear without a single accident. I'm sorry you don't want to see a rig to ruin your scenery in a few places, but it's either that or borrow and inflate to buy imports until we go bankrupt.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Originally posted by: BansheeX
'm sorry you don't want to see a rig to ruin your scenery in a few places, but it's either that or borrow and inflate to buy imports until we go bankrupt.

or...focus on other renewable sources and come out on top. Unless you think the American mind has devolved to the point that it can't create new tech on a grand scale, i would almost believe you but I have hope.
 

ChunkiMunki

Senior member
Dec 21, 2001
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when will our leaders advocate conservation and actively support clean energy? increasing mileage standards by the next twenty years is too little, too late. "just start drilling more oil" can no longer be the mantra, as demand will just continue rising to meet , then exceed, any increase in oil production, delaying the inevitable oil crash. We cannot expect and demand cheap, plentiful oil and gas forever