Discussion Maybe it's time we consider giving asylum to only females and female children.

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,666
30,231
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I think it’s past time that we change our asylum laws, rather than relying each successive administration to implement their own policy. There are several reasons to limit or curtail asylum from Mexico, Central and South America.

- All the usual reasons (stopping cartels engaged in human trafficking, preventing vectors for crime and terrorism, preventing spread of disease and parasites a la screwworm)
- We are not equipped to handle climate change induced migration. We can barely handle climate change for ourselves. Blame GOP and billionaires.
- We do not have a functioning social safety net or healthcare system for our own population, much less migrants who haven’t even paid into social security etc. Again, blame the GOP and billionaires.

I can even buy “some” of the right-wing cultural arguments—we’ve become less of a melting pot and more of a fractured society where the more recent waves of Latinos have been shunned by American society, keep to themselves and never have to learn the language. Again, I mostly blame the GOP over the past 18 years but Dems have their fair share of blame too.

I think any Democrat running for public office in 2026 or beyond needs to acknowledge that asylum laws will be changed, requirements for asylum will be stricter, and the # admitted will go down.

However, we still need more immigration judges to speed up the hearing + deportation process so we aren’t forced to imprison them at home or abroad. We also need amnesty for Dreamers who’ve been here their entire lives (minimum of 16 years) and a functioning guest worker program. My fear is that this issue has become so politicized that both parties will never work together and compromise to solve the problem.
They aren't being genuine in their arguments. The war on immigrants is strictly rooted in racism, period. Attacking asylum seekers is just looking to "other" a subset of immigrants but the real fight is a general war on immigration in general if they aren't white.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Fox News was pushing this shit 20 years ago. Having been on the other side of this topic, I know it well.

How many crimes do you think a roughly equal number of (30 million?) Americans commit each year?
Why should we ONLY report on and obsess over the crimes a minority group causes?
Have you bothered to FACT CHECK whether this particular group commits more crimes than Americans in general?
Why should we engage in collective punishment against a minority group, just because they are human, and humans commit crimes?

To single out a group in this manner, may itself be the sort of racism that fueled the holocaust.
Propaganda may make exciting headlines to demagogue and demonize these people, but effective evil is no less evil. It would be our moral duty to oppose this farce of a topic and defend the innocent.


Very similar debate going on here. Couple of cases of asylum-seekers commiting serious crimes against girls, leading to furious protests in the name of "protecting women and children".

Seems like it's just human nature - minorities and out-groups are invariably held collectively responsible for such things in a way the majority mainstream group never are. Happens in so many domains (e.g. cyclists get blamed for every wrong thing ever done by someone who rides a bicycle, while motorists can commit deliberate mass murder using their vehicle as a weapon and nobody ever blames motorists as a group for it). I believe it even has a name "outgroup homogeneity"

I mean, when that Axel Rudikabana kid committed those atrocities against small children, it led to riots and attempted pogroms of Muslims and asylum-seekers, even though the perpetrator was (a) not an asylum-seeker and (b) not a Muslim.

They were, in fact, the autistic child of conservative Christians (who, granted, were themselves successful asylum claimants, I believe).

Yet there was no collective outpouring of rage against conservatives, Christians or, interestingly, even 'people with autism'. Those groups are all relatively privileged ones (the last because there are a _lot_ of affluent professional-class white people with autistic children, indeed you kind of have to have a bit of money to be able to access the services to get such a diagnosis). Hence they aren't in the classes who can be collectively blamed for the actions of individuals.

Autistic people get nothing like the collective stigmatisation that, say, people with schizophrenia or personalty disorders get, which is an interesting nuance of how these things work. Even among the disadvantaged, some are more disadvantaged than others.

(It is possible, that asylum-seekers might commit a disproportionate number of certain types of crime than existing citizens, because a proportion of them might have been pyschologically-damaged by the very crises they are fleeing - I doubt the difference is significant enough to explain that difference in the tendency towards collective blame, though)
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
8,099
8,976
136
Imagine the field day Republicans would have pilloring some rich asshole known worldwide for running a child beauty pageant who also sexually harassed young women and counted as a friend the most widely known child sex trafficker in history!

Where are the Epstein files?
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,781
10,969
136
Imagine the field day Republicans would have pilloring some rich asshole known worldwide for running a child beauty pageant who also sexually harassed young women and counted as a friend the most widely known child sex trafficker in history!

Where are the Epstein files?

That is exactly what I was talking about.

A braindead low IQ motherfucker can get their propaganda and go vote accordingly but we won't even try to adapt ours??

I swear sometimes it looks like the left hates the left more than the right because of all these insane purity tests!
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,477
10,090
136
Haven't people said this about various waves of immigrants since the 19th century?
You’re probably right. But when I was in elementary school back in the day, we had ESL programs for non-native English speakers with a different language at home. Now, our school system offers language immersion programs where 90% of the class is taught in Spanish. Less incentive to become proficient and I’ve seen it in both the kids and the parents. But it’s probably a function of time—people that moved here in the past 5 years or less will probably be more integrated in another 5-10 years.

My point stands that our current asylum system is woefully inadequate and leaves us unprepared to deal with climate refugees and mass migrations. Before we can fix that, let’s focus on guest worker programs and shoring up social security and fixing our healthcare system for the rest of us.
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,334
18,238
136
You’re probably right. But when I was in elementary school back in the day, we had ESL programs for non-native English speakers with a different language at home. Now, our school system offers language immersion programs where 90% of the class is taught in Spanish. Less incentive to become proficient and I’ve seen it in both the kids and the parents. But it’s probably a function of time—people that moved here in the past 5 years or less will probably be more integrated in another 5-10 years.

My point stands that our current asylum system is woefully inadequate and leaves us unprepared to deal with climate refugees and mass migrations. Before we can fix that, let’s focus on guest worker programs and shoring up social security and fixing our healthcare system for the rest of us.
Yes, I agree that our current asylum system is (intentionally) insufficient. It might behoove us to undertake all of that, since it's likely to happen regardless of whether we're prepared. You know, assuming we make it out of the situation ahead of us in the next few years...
 
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Dec 10, 2005
28,236
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You’re probably right. But when I was in elementary school back in the day, we had ESL programs for non-native English speakers with a different language at home. Now, our school system offers language immersion programs where 90% of the class is taught in Spanish. Less incentive to become proficient and I’ve seen it in both the kids and the parents. But it’s probably a function of time—people that moved here in the past 5 years or less will probably be more integrated in another 5-10 years.

My point stands that our current asylum system is woefully inadequate and leaves us unprepared to deal with climate refugees and mass migrations. Before we can fix that, let’s focus on guest worker programs and shoring up social security and fixing our healthcare system for the rest of us.
Throughout US history, there have been plenty of pockets of immigrant communities that largely spoke their mother tongue, so it's really nothing unusual. Offering government services in languages locals are using is fine.

As for asylum: the asylum system is woefully inadequate because it is understaffed, requires substantial resources to navigate, and takes too long for people to get through the system.

In a sane world, we'd liberalize our immigration policies and make it easier for people to flat out come here, as we once did for western Europeans. Smart and ambitious people want to come here to live, work, and contribute? I say let them in.

And we would also work to alleviate reasons people might look to flee their homes in the first place. Economic instability and state and non-state violence at our back door is a big driver of why people come to the US to seek asylum and opportunity.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,477
10,090
136
Throughout US history, there have been plenty of pockets of immigrant communities that largely spoke their mother tongue, so it's really nothing unusual. Offering government services in languages locals are using is fine.

As for asylum: the asylum system is woefully inadequate because it is understaffed, requires substantial resources to navigate, and takes too long for people to get through the system.

In a sane world, we'd liberalize our immigration policies and make it easier for people to flat out come here, as we once did for western Europeans. Smart and ambitious people want to come here to live, work, and contribute? I say let them in.

And we would also work to alleviate reasons people might look to flee their homes in the first place. Economic instability and state and non-state violence at our back door is a big driver of why people come to the US to seek asylum and opportunity.
The world is not sane, and it’s only going to get worse with climate change.

Back in the 80s, after resettling Vietnamese refugees, the boat lift refugees from Cuba and scores of Ethiopians and Haitians, we should’ve fucking learned our lesson and launched a “belt and road” style development program—at the very least in the Western Hemisphere. Peace Corps and USAID weren’t enough when you compare them with what China’s done since. Nevermind all the shenanigans the CIA pulled over the years in our backyard.
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,781
10,969
136
Yes, I agree that our current asylum system is (intentionally) insufficient. It might behoove us to undertake all of that, since it's likely to happen regardless of whether we're prepared. You know, assuming we make it out of the situation ahead of us in the next few years...

It would do well for the left to remember the 2 massive backlashes recently..

Obama 2016 Syrian refugees..
Biden 2021 refugees..

Americans voters want their pound of flesh and don't like sharing it with refugees..

You might say it's right wing propaganda but it's also history and not ancient history. Those who forget to learn from history are doomed to repeat it!
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,334
18,238
136
It would do well for the left to remember the 2 massive backlashes recently..

Obama 2016 Syrian refugees..
Biden 2021 refugees..

Americans voters want their pound of flesh and don't like sharing it with refugees..

You might say it's right wing propaganda but it's also history and not ancient history. Those who forget to learn from history are doomed to repeat it!
Keep on fighting that culture war instead of the class war, it's going great for those on top!
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,781
10,969
136
Keep on fighting that culture war instead of the class war, it's going great for those on top!

Oh yeah totally..

I can't get over all these left wing talking points of Hillary and Kam..

Only Bernie and AOC speak the truth but AOC's weakness is she's a woman. She'll never be taken seriously.

Gonna have to have a white male do the talking.

Newsom?? I doubt it but if he calls it like it is and says he'll spill the blood of MAGA.. he'll have an army following him!
 

Pontius Dilate

Senior member
Mar 28, 2008
235
411
136
Oh yeah totally..

I can't get over all these left wing talking points of Hillary and Kam..

Only Bernie and AOC speak the truth but AOC's weakness is she's a woman. She'll never be taken seriously.

Gonna have to have a white male do the talking.

Newsom?? I doubt it but if he calls it like it is and says he'll spill the blood of MAGA.. he'll have an army following him!
Yeah, Dems should probably give up on a fair and efficient immigration system and purge the party leaders of women and people of color so that Republicans are willing to help out on ensuring we have a robust economy that works for all Americans, a strong social safety net and healthcare system which takes care of the elderly and infirm and disadvantaged, with a strong focus on maintaining our constitutional freedoms.

Or ... hang on ... Republicans don't want to work with Dems on that shit either. So what the fuck are you talking about?
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,781
10,969
136
I love AOC, I'll vote for AOC, but do I think she'll win over enough men in this country?? No!

When you can make American men vote for a woman.. go ahead make fun of me, until then..

my word is SCRIPTURE!
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,918
15,381
136
Everything human in groups above ~12 require some sort of politics. Melting pots require politics. People just have to agree that this is what they want and create policies/incentives to celebrate diversity.
Or you could create policies that divide and foster hate - for personal gain and profit.
 

Pontius Dilate

Senior member
Mar 28, 2008
235
411
136
I love AOC, I'll vote for AOC, but do I think she'll win over enough men in this country?? No!

When you can make American men vote for a woman.. go ahead make fun of me, until then..

my word is SCRIPTURE!
The Dems repeatedly incrementally giving up on their policies and values and trying to meet Repubs in "the middle" is what got us here. Repubs don't want to meet in the middle, it's do what they say or they will burn it to the ground. What on earth makes you think that if Dems stop pressing on responsible immigration policies that Repubs will start working with them on anything else whatsoever? What in the last 20 years tells you that Repubs actually care about compromise, governing or the rule of law? I'm not making fun of you, this is a serious question. The premise of this thread is proven by recent history to get Dems precisely nowhere.