JEDIYoda
Lifer
Some people who believe this way are using this pandemic to justify their racists tendencies......
-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
Maybe coronavirus will finally make us get serious about illegal immigration
Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
Agreed!! But dealing irrationally could make one racist....
GoodRevrnd
Diamond Member
R's have been given pragmatic immigration legislation that would significantly bolster border security but if we solved the problem they wouldn't have their boogeyman to campaign on.
interchange
Diamond Member
Some people who attack those who demonstrate racist tendencies do so in effort to deny even to themselves their own racist tendencies. I almost didn't say this at all because I don't really know how to without it coming across as me saying who the real bad guy is. Then I realized I probably couldn't accomplish that. And that shouldn't stop me. Because I know the truth is that there are no bad guys. This is what people do. We run away from the things we hate about ourselves, in these examples via projection. I do that too although I'm trying to push myself to self-actualize so I don't have to, at least as much. And so I say this because without doing so, I can't imagine anything changing about our collective will to support each other's projection and splitting so that our own projection and splitting can be more effective. Guess what? All of us are fucking racist and all of us hate it, even those who actively embrace it do so as part of a counterphobic defense. And we also love it at the same time. The human mind is fascinating. And it's the root of everything good about us as a species. It is the source of creativity, community, curiosity, discovery, and love just the same as it is hate and murder and war and racism. I for one think we should be embracing the hell out of our nature to facilitate harnessing our potential or else we will end up manifesting our hate through action in our attempt to pretend we ourselves do not possess it.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
You notice I said some people???????? Why? Because I don`t think you are racist at all!!
But with that said I do think perhaps you used a poor choice of words, that is why I pointed out that some people....
Have a good night!!
Personally I favour less travel in general, for environmental reasons. Migration from poorer countries to richer ones is the less significant part of that problem, and also the hardest to address, because, in my opinion, what is needed is to reduce the 'push' factors - to make it easier for people to build decent lives where they are.
While not being anti-migration, I'm not a _fan_ of people constantly shuffling about the planet trying to meet the needs of the economy, when the economy ought to be meeting the needs of people. The aspiration ought to be to reduce the need for such constant mobility.
And much of the problem is a consequence of past unnecessary travel of ill-behaved and careless tourists like, say, that Christopher Columbus guy.
For travel from richer to poorer countries it's an easier problem - just make travellers pay the true cost of their behaviour by internalising externalities.
I don't see that the spreading of infectious diseases by illegal migrants is a significant issue compared to all the other problems caused by travel, including the spreading of disease from richer countries to poorer ones, which seems to have been a bigger problem both historically and right now.
There's also, when it comes to the US southern border, a very particular history of using 'disease concerns' as a means of harassing and stigmatising migrating workers. E.g. in past eras demanding Mexicans who crossed the border daily to work on the US side, to undergo de-lousing and inspection every single time.
While not being anti-migration, I'm not a _fan_ of people constantly shuffling about the planet trying to meet the needs of the economy, when the economy ought to be meeting the needs of people. The aspiration ought to be to reduce the need for such constant mobility.
And much of the problem is a consequence of past unnecessary travel of ill-behaved and careless tourists like, say, that Christopher Columbus guy.
For travel from richer to poorer countries it's an easier problem - just make travellers pay the true cost of their behaviour by internalising externalities.
I don't see that the spreading of infectious diseases by illegal migrants is a significant issue compared to all the other problems caused by travel, including the spreading of disease from richer countries to poorer ones, which seems to have been a bigger problem both historically and right now.
There's also, when it comes to the US southern border, a very particular history of using 'disease concerns' as a means of harassing and stigmatising migrating workers. E.g. in past eras demanding Mexicans who crossed the border daily to work on the US side, to undergo de-lousing and inspection every single time.
Last edited:
glenn1
Lifer
Yeah my proposal to raise legal immigration quotas to meet demand and lower the incentives for illegal immigration sure is crazy talk. I guess then you'd have to pay more for your produce if a citizen or someone with legal status harvested it and we can't have that. Makes it a lot easier to advocate for $15/hour when you fully plan to hire illegals at less to do the work.
I agree with this "crazy talk" of yours. It's the corps who have most profited by hiring illegals FUCKING WHOLESALE . . . a hard working gaggle of family-oriented campesinos, too scared by their illegal status to stand up to the worst of working conditions.
But what does any of this REALLY have to do with the OBVIOUS fear-based scapegoating being indulged in by the OP, eh, Chief?
glenn1
Lifer
I'm not scapegoating the illegal aliens but rather us the U.S. citizens for knowing about this for decades and not fixing the problem because we financially benefit from those being paid less for performing labor because it's done under conditions of duress. The illegal aliens are responding to the perverse incentives WE created and that we should fix. When the government has created a speed trap situation by making the speed limit artificially low as a revenue generation tactic I don't blame the drivers, I blame the government and want the citizens to demand the government changes it. Our immigration system is broken the same way and should be fixed the same way.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
You don`t have a true grasp of what you are saying.....
In fact you are spouting Republican talking points!
Here let me educate you - a citizen with legal status will never ever work in the fields! That has been proven time and again! Even if you paid them $15 an hour!! I am educating you because you don`t know anybody who is a citizen with legal status that wants to do back breaking work for a piddly $15.00 an hour!!
The bolded comment is so idiotic and quite frankly blatantly false!! but it is a Republican talking point that Republican will use to say see I am not racist idiot.......I just care about our country! By using the word "OUR" they mean our white anglo-saxon country....
Then you go on to say -- We can`t have our produce costing more, which IMO is a crock of shit!!
Last edited:
JEDIYoda
Lifer
You know it is almost 6 am and I am getting ready to go work in the lettuce fields of the Salinas valley, picking lettuce for 10 hours a day with no break and one porta potty that is shared by several hundred illegal immigrants --- NOT!!!!!
But when i need to laugh I just read through your comments in this thread and laugh so hard I have to pick myself up off the floor and sit back down again!!
Last edited:
Excellent. Now, per the topic of this thread, do you agree that the OP is?
JEDIYoda
Lifer
I agree and judging by Trumps speech last night, when Trump talks about the economy he is actually looking out for his own personal properties and holdings! Trump could care less about the economy for anybody else! It has always been about Trump!!
glenn1
Lifer
I am the OP. You do realize (I hope?) that multiple things can be true at once? That we should fix the immigration system for moral reasons, AND simultaneously that we should prevent unauthorized immigration (via whatever channel be it overland to overstaying visas for those who arrive by air/sea/whatever) for pandemic control reasons?
JEDIYoda
Lifer
I am sure he knows you were the OP!! Hahahahaaaa
I am also sure that you have no real clue and to qualify your immigration BS by sating it has something to do with the pandemic is not at all the case!
You do realize the pandemic was brought into the US by rich US Citizens coming home from abroad?
You do realize that Mexico has little to none of the CoronaVirus??
It is blatantly false and wrong to lie about the pandemic and the posibility that it will be brought into the US by illegals!
get a grip and admit you screwed up!!
Then you bring moral reasons into this..that is a joke! That is another Republican talking point!
Moral reason -- rofl.......
Viper1j
Diamond Member
Be careful what you wish for, sometimes, you get it.
The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires
Although many Americans believe immigrants “steal” our jobs and push down our wages, economists find little evidence of that.
www.forbes.com
The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires
To forgo a repeat of last year, when labor shortages triggered an estimated $140 million in agricultural losses, as crops rotted in the fields, officials in Georgia are now dispatching prisoners to the state’s farms to help harvest fruit and vegetables.
(Slave labor)
The labor shortages, which also have affected the hotel and restaurant industries, are a consequence of Georgia’s immigration enforcement law, HB 87, which was passed last year. As State Rep. Matt Ramsey, one of the bill’s authors, said at the time, “Our goal is … to eliminate incentives for illegal aliens to cross into our state.”
Now he and others are learning: Be careful what you wish for, because you may get more than you bargained for.
Georgia’s law, similar to those in Alabama, Arizona and a few other states, gives police the authority to demand immigration documentation from suspects when they detain them for other possible violations. The law also makes it more difficult for businesses to hire workers and creates harsher punishments for those who employ or harbor illegal immigrants.
The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that some 425,000 illegal immigrants lived in Georgia when the legislation was passed – seventh highest in the nation. Those numbers are now down, as hoped for, but the state’s economy is paying a heavy price.
The dirty secret that everybody knew was that most of the state’s agricultural workers were immigrants, many of them illegal. Some lived in the state; others migrated with the harvest from southern Florida up to New York and back. Some of the former have moved away, while many of the latter are bypassing Georgia. Without them, according to a University of Georgia study, farmers were about 40 percent short of the number of workers they needed to harvest last year’s crop.
Despite high unemployment in the state, most Georgians don’t want such back-breaking jobs, nor do they have the necessary skills. According to Dick Minor, president of the Georgia Fruit and Vegetable Grower’s Association, immigrants “are pretty much professional harvesters” with many specializing in particular crops.
Workers are paid by volume, with skilled workers typically earning $15 to $20 an hour. Unskilled workers earn much less, which is why most locals don’t want the jobs.
Georgia’s experience is consistent with economic research on immigration. Although many Americans believe immigrants “steal” our jobs and push down our wages, economists find little evidence of that.
Since 1950 the U.S. labor force has roughly doubled in size, but there has been no long-run increase in unemployment. Most economic studies also find little evidence that increased immigration depresses the wages of U.S. workers. At worst, it might push down the wages of high school dropouts, but even there the effect is small.
UNCjigga
Lifer
You do realize that spending $20 million/mile on border wall is possibly the worst idea ever and does fuck all for preventing unauthorized immigration?
You do realize this is just a vanity project to outdo Obama, who already completed 649 miles of barrier back in 2011? That Bush 2 and Obama had already moved beyond physical barriers and were working with Boeing on “smart wall” using surveillance drones? Please tell me you knew this—that you don’t rely on right wing circle jerks for your policy info.
Obama in 2011:
"We have gone above and beyond what was requested by the very Republicans who said they supported broader reform as long as we got serious about enforcement," Obama said. "All the stuff they asked for [in the amended Secure Fence Act], we’ve done. But even though we’ve answered these concerns, I’ve got to say I suspect there are still going to be some who are trying to move the goal posts on us one more time."
"They'll want want a higher fence," Obama said. "Maybe they’ll need a moat. Maybe they want alligators in the moat. They’ll never be satisfied. And I understand that. That’s politics."
glenn1
Lifer
Congrats for bringing up something I didn't raise and mostly don't support (spot walls are OK when logic dictates). Walls have zero to do with raising legal immigration quotas as being the best and most moral way to address our problems with illegal immigration and all the 2nd and 3rd order effects of it. I don't want to stop or limit immigration, but want it to be within the controlled and orderly framework of legal immigration.
glenn1
Lifer
Be careful what you wish for, sometimes, you get it.
View attachment 18040
The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires
Although many Americans believe immigrants “steal” our jobs and push down our wages, economists find little evidence of that.
The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires
To forgo a repeat of last year, when labor shortages triggered an estimated $140 million in agricultural losses, as crops rotted in the fields, officials in Georgia are now dispatching prisoners to the state’s farms to help harvest fruit and vegetables.
(Slave labor)
The labor shortages, which also have affected the hotel and restaurant industries, are a consequence of Georgia’s immigration enforcement law, HB 87, which was passed last year. As State Rep. Matt Ramsey, one of the bill’s authors, said at the time, “Our goal is … to eliminate incentives for illegal aliens to cross into our state.”
Now he and others are learning: Be careful what you wish for, because you may get more than you bargained for.
Georgia’s law, similar to those in Alabama, Arizona and a few other states, gives police the authority to demand immigration documentation from suspects when they detain them for other possible violations. The law also makes it more difficult for businesses to hire workers and creates harsher punishments for those who employ or harbor illegal immigrants.
The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that some 425,000 illegal immigrants lived in Georgia when the legislation was passed – seventh highest in the nation. Those numbers are now down, as hoped for, but the state’s economy is paying a heavy price.
The dirty secret that everybody knew was that most of the state’s agricultural workers were immigrants, many of them illegal. Some lived in the state; others migrated with the harvest from southern Florida up to New York and back. Some of the former have moved away, while many of the latter are bypassing Georgia. Without them, according to a University of Georgia study, farmers were about 40 percent short of the number of workers they needed to harvest last year’s crop.
Despite high unemployment in the state, most Georgians don’t want such back-breaking jobs, nor do they have the necessary skills. According to Dick Minor, president of the Georgia Fruit and Vegetable Grower’s Association, immigrants “are pretty much professional harvesters” with many specializing in particular crops.
Workers are paid by volume, with skilled workers typically earning $15 to $20 an hour. Unskilled workers earn much less, which is why most locals don’t want the jobs.
Georgia’s experience is consistent with economic research on immigration. Although many Americans believe immigrants “steal” our jobs and push down our wages, economists find little evidence of that.
Since 1950 the U.S. labor force has roughly doubled in size, but there has been no long-run increase in unemployment. Most economic studies also find little evidence that increased immigration depresses the wages of U.S. workers. At worst, it might push down the wages of high school dropouts, but even there the effect is small.
"Georgia’s experience is consistent with economic research on immigration. Although many Americans believe immigrants “steal” our jobs and push down our wages, economists find little evidence of that."
Actually your post is 100% evidence that it pushes down wages. The jobs were filled by immigrants previously, then once the crackdown occurred those same jobs went unfilled at rates the illegal immigrants were willing to work at so by definition illegal workers were pushing down wages. Hell, your very article makes the point: "Unskilled workers earn much less, which is why most locals don’t want the jobs." Absent illegal immigrant workers, the employer would have no choice but to offer higher wages to fill the job. Which means folks like you would have to pay more for your produce which seems obvious you are unwilling to do if you can simply ignore the immorality of how you got those lower prices.
My bad. I thought it was some other wrangler blowing on his dog whistle.
So, you're not scapegoating illegal aliens, BUT, the corona virus hits our shores and your first thought is to make a post about them there dirty, disease carrying Mexicans and their ongoing threat to REAL AMERICANS?
Glenn, you're an intelligent man. My hope is that, someday soon, you wake up and smell the hidden hint of bigotry so deeply emeshed in your political views.
96Firebird
Diamond Member
I'm curious as to how your feeble little mush of a brain connected the coronavirus to illegal immigrants?
I always like to get the POV of the mentally unstable.
I always like to get the POV of the mentally unstable.
Viper1j
Diamond Member
What's the average salary for slaves?
Or did you miss the part that they were using prison slaves to do the work?
And they were still losing. And if you think it's just "produce", wait until that repair job on your roof is 2000.00 higher. Or you have to pay an extra 30k for that new home. Or landscaping bill triples and hotel fares quadruple.
You'll get a clue... Eventually.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
