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Massive voter fraud discovered in North Carolina

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Fern said:
We all know in the absence of system that provide info, such as ID, there is no way to prove anything.

You take the existence of an incomplete system that cannot detect or prove fraud as proof none exists.

If you don't audit financial records you'll never find theft. Your argument is basically 'if we don't audit that means there is no theft'. 'So, not auditing is the best way to stop theft'.
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Absolutely not true, as has been debunked many many times on here. First of all, voter ID does nothing to enable detection of fraud unless people are recording the ID information which would be very time consuming and costly. (ie: not happening)

Secondly, there are all sorts of telltale marks of fraud that would happen if people were impersonating other voters at the polls like double voting, etc. The only excuse conservatives have ever been able to come up with why this would happen is for an individual to conduct a sting operation of his neighbors' voting habits to determine who he could safely impersonate and then hope nobody at the poll notices him) It's prepostrous.

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It will be interesting if a state gets an ID requirement upheld. Then when the number of votes drop will it be claimed it was suppression or that it results from fewer fraudulent votes?

I wonder if the occurrence clerical errors will suddenly decline as well?

Fern
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Suppression.
 
eskimospy said:
Secondly, there are all sorts of telltale marks of fraud that would happen if people were impersonating other voters at the polls like double voting, etc. The only excuse conservatives have ever been able to come up with why this would happen is for an individual to conduct a sting operation of his neighbors' voting habits to determine who he could safely impersonate and then hope nobody at the poll notices him) It's prepostrous.
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No wonder you want to brush aside a report of 35,750 double votes, a telltale mark of fraud.
 
simpletron said:
No wonder you want to brush aside a report of 35,750 double votes, a telltale mark of fraud.
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Lol, no. Not only would voter ID not have helped in this case (as they were totally different areas that one could have supplied id in), but I mean double votes that turn out to be legitimate ones, not ones suspected and not investigated.

As I have mentioned in previous posts here go look back at the history of suspected voting irregularities. They frequently come up with THOUSANDS of suspected examples, of which basically all turn out to be bullshit. They should definitely investigate these, but acting like it is prima fascie evidence of fraud only means you don't know the history of these.
 
eskimospy said:
Lol, no. Not only would voter ID not have helped in this case (as they were totally different areas that one could have supplied id in), but I mean double votes that turn out to be legitimate ones, not ones suspected and not investigated.
-snip-
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I think I've already shown that NC voter registration doesn't require proof of your SS# (last 4 digits).

It's possible that if we had voter ID laws some of those 35,750 may have had matching numbers.

Fern
 
Fern said:
I think I've already shown that NC voter registration doesn't require proof of your SS# (last 4 digits).

It's possible that if we had voter ID laws some of those 35,750 may have had matching numbers.

Fern
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So now instead of just checking the ID the poll workers are writing down ID numbers and all for every person who comes in? I hope you're ready to invest in more poll workers. I am willing to put a bet down right now that if any of these cases turn out to be fraud an absentee ballot was used in more than 90% of those cases (in which a poll worker wasn't the one doing the fraud), which of course voter ID would do nothing for. Any takers?

It will never cease to baffle me why conservatives who claim not to want voter ID for partisan advantage continue to so stridently insist on adding additional government regulations and a national ID requirement without any evidence that they are needed, and all that while not doing anything about absentee ballots, which are the overwhelming fraud vehicle of choice.

Never thought I'd see conservatives agitating for mandatory government identification to exercise your rights. (but not for absentee ballots of course)
 
eskimospy said:
So now instead of just checking the ID the poll workers are writing down ID numbers and all for every person who comes in? -snip-
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Seriously?

LOL

If an ID is required to vote, an ID will be required to register. The last 4 digits can be confirmed when registering.

Fern
 
Much simpler solution, dip your finger in an ink pot that can't be washed off for a couple of days. Those with a purple finger can't vote again.

Anyone could register in all 100 counties, and use their ID to go and vote in all 100 counties with no problem.
 
Can anyone cite just one Republican law or act put into place to make it easier for qualified citizens to vote??
 
HomerJS said:
Can anyone cite just one Republican law or act put into place to make it easier for qualified citizens to vote??
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Emancipation Proclamation (their freedom eventually led to their right to vote).

Now: top that with a Democrat initiative. ALL of the Jim Crow laws were championed by Democrats. Every. Single. One.
 
CZroe said:
Emancipation Proclamation (their freedom eventually led to their right to vote).

Now: top that with a Democrat initiative. ALL of the Jim Crow laws were championed by Democrats. Every. Single. One.
Click to expand...

And in the Sixties when the main Democratic Party decided to do something about race in the South. Every. Single. One. Of. Those. Jim. Crow. Democrats turned Republican.
YOU ARE Ignorant about US political history, don't go spreading it around.
 
werepossum said:
MtnMan said:
Much simpler solution, dip your finger in an ink pot that can't be washed off for a couple of days. Those with a purple finger can't vote again.
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Works for me.
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Really? Please explain how stained fingers would solve the problem of absentee-ballot fraud, which is much, much easier to perpetrate than voter-ID fraud.

Oh, wait, those who vote via absentee ballots are much more likely to be Republicans. Obviously, we don't want to "suppress" absentee voting by implementing "burdensome" absentee requirements.

Have I got that argument about right?
 
WHAMPOM said:
And in the Sixties when the main Democratic Party decided to do something about race in the South. Every. Single. One. Of. Those. Jim. Crow. Democrats turned Republican.
YOU ARE Ignorant about US political history, don't go spreading it around.
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See?
You lost the argument?
Did you see that?
So you went off on something irrelevant.
Congrats.
 
This will very likely turn out like all of the accusations of "massive voter fraud". Big splashy headlines ahead of the elections to froth up the faithful, keep 'em nice & irrational, disinterested in real issues. After the election, after all the necessary research, it'll just be more of the usual crying wolf when there isn't one.

Ever notice how there's never enough time between the raving and the election to really figure out the truth? There's a reason for that. Ever notice how the discredited ravings of the past are never mentioned again for what they are? There's a reason for that, too.
 
WHAMPOM said:
And in the Sixties when the main Democratic Party decided to do something about race in the South. Every. Single. One. Of. Those. Jim. Crow. Democrats turned Republican.
YOU ARE Ignorant about US political history, don't go spreading it around.
Click to expand...
Um, no. In the first place, the '63 Civil Rights Act was virtually identical to bills submitted by Republicans and blocked by Democrats for several Congresses. In the second, virtually none of the Democrat politicians became Republican at that time. After breaking away as the Dixiecrats, almost all returned to being Democrats. The big conversions came with Reagan and the '94 Republican revolution.

shira said:
Really? Please explain how stained fingers would solve the problem of absentee-ballot fraud, which is much, much easier to perpetrate than voter-ID fraud.

Oh, wait, those who vote via absentee ballots are much more likely to be Republicans. Obviously, we don't want to "suppress" absentee voting by implementing "burdensome" absentee requirements.

Have I got that argument about right?
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Works to solve the problem of voter ID, not every potential voting problem.

Outside of the military I'm not at all sure that absentee ballots are much more likely to be Republicans. At least where I was raised, virtually the entire population of the projects voted absentee, even those who were later at the courthouse that day. Lot of walking around money, cigarettes and liquor flows to get those absentee ballots. At most I'd say there's a slight edge when including the military - which would be why Gore sent hundreds of lawyers into Florida in 2000 to challenge military absentee ballots.
 
werepossum said:
Works to solve the problem of voter ID, not every potential voting problem.
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Assumes facts not in evidence, that voter ID is an actual, you know, "problem", rather than another boogeyman & dog whistle rallying point for the gullible & the dishonest.
 
HomerJS said:
Can anyone cite just one Republican law or act put into place to make it easier for qualified citizens to vote??
Click to expand...

The problem is that you shouldn't use the term "Republican" or "Democrat" in these situations because people will bring up stuff that happened when the terms were the same but the ideology of each group was completely different. Trying to attack or defend R and D based on stuff done 50+ years ago would be like using Genghis Khan's spreading of the bubonic plague in war as proof that the current Mongolia uses germ warfare. The group from then and the group from now with the same name don't resemble each other.

It's probably better to use liberal vs conservative since that's more accurate. Because at it's most basic liberals are looking for change to something better and conservatives feel that what is the status quo is better. So civil rights, end of slavery, women's suffrage have all been liberal actions in American history. And unfortunately when a conservative gets far enough away from center they actually want to regress rights. Look at the right's attempts to attack voting rights, attack women's right to choose, attack LGBT equal rights.
 
CZroe said:
Emancipation Proclamation (their freedom eventually led to their right to vote).

Now: top that with a Democrat initiative. ALL of the Jim Crow laws were championed by Democrats. Every. Single. One.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the same time period as all those voter ID laws being passed and the cutting back on early voting.

I wouldn't use the EP as an example since women could vote until the 1920s

These fake massive voter fraud stories are being used to justify making it harder for people to vote.

remember...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8
 
It's the absentee ballot issue that proves, for me, what bullshit this whole voter ID push really is. The entire absentee voting system is ripe for abuse. If voter fraud is occurring, that's where you'll find it. There is absolutely no incentive for a fraudster to actually go to the polls and look an election judge in the eyes and sign a fake name. Why would anyone risk that? They would just file an absentee ballot instead.

But you don't hear a peep about overhauling the absentee voting process, or placing tighter restrictions there. We all know the reason.

This idea has been floated as a way to deter poor people from voting. That's it. Anyone serious about preventing fraud would push to revamp the absentee system and mandate improvements in the electronic voter registration systems. Those are the weaknesses.
 
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