Massive Pile Up In Fort Worth

[deadlyapp]

I do not get this. I've lived in homes from New England to Florida, homes built from 1900 to 2000, and none of them had issues of winter at its worse, let alone the ability to heat above 40F in the worse of times. But then again my experiences lack Texas, which is an exception to everything, IMO. BTW, my home doesn't have insulated pipes, we suffered through two weeks in the 20's in the day and had no issues heating our homes--or driving the neighborhood. It isn't the cold that gets the people of North GA (where I now reside), it their fear of the white stuff. Funny thing is, the snow acts like an insulator when the temps plunge well below freezing.

Generally, I'd say that many homes in the NE are heated by oil or gas, and have a backup source of heating in case that fails (eg a fireplace). In Texas, I'd reckon that nearly every fireplace in a home built since the 70s or 80s is not designed to heat a room or home and is purely a source of decoration.

Our temperatures got down to the low 50's during the day last week, but we also got back electricity and were able to run our forced gas furnace every night to bring the temp back up to ~70 before they shut it back off at ~7-8am. We have a gas fireplace as well, but that puts out only the small amount of heat that conducts through the brick and convects to the space in the very large, high ceiling living room. I suspect that many people were in a very similar situation here.

In terms of piping - I think most of the homes with well built piping, insulated outdoors and at least remotely insulated in the attic, fared OK. Most of the breakages I've seen thus far are with people who have shitty PVC or CPVC plumbing inside their homes, didn't insulate outdoors, and didn't have some level of insulation in their attic areas. Our pipes are old galvanized pipes and are insulated in the attic, as well as having blown in insulation covering much of it.

In terms of road conditions, on Monday when we got snow, it was very driveable if you knew how to drive on it - however once it compacted and warmed up a bit through the day, since there was absolutely no plowing, no deicer, etc, it became worse. Once it re-froze overnight on Monday, it was nearly impassable on Tuesday until the sun melted a lot of it. I drove the neighborhood and watched many people coasting right through stop signs because they couldn't gauge their braking.

 

[PingSpike]

I don't know if this matters but houses in the NE are generally tiny compared to the south, with the exception of old farm houses. This actually probably makes it comparatively more expensive to insulate them fully. Most of my piping and utilities are also in my basement, which by virtue of being under ground is quite resistant to freezing even if the power is out. My understanding is the NE built basements for their root cellars and basically just never stopped doing it even after that stopped being a thing. Basements seem pretty uncommon in the south in general.

None of my pipes are insulated though. They all seem to run up the center of the house and fan out, which strikes me as the cheapest way to avoid them freezing.

Pipes definitely still burst around here though. We had a nasty cold snap that lasted weeks a few years back and it started taking things out that hadn't had problems before. It was breaking some main lines that weren't buried deep enough, which would foul up the water just like Texas. But those were still isolated events. Part of the problem is our snow cover was also poor that year, its amusing but even snow is an insulator against deep negative temps.

 

[Amol S.]

I don't know if this matters but houses in the NE are generally tiny compared to the south, with the exception of old farm houses. This actually probably makes it comparatively more expensive to insulate them fully. Most of my piping and utilities are also in my basement, which by virtue of being under ground is quite resistant to freezing even if the power is out. My understanding is the NE built basements for their root cellars and basically just never stopped doing it even after that stopped being a thing. Basements seem pretty uncommon in the south in general.

None of my pipes are insulated though. They all seem to run up the center of the house and fan out, which strikes me as the cheapest way to avoid them freezing.

Pipes definitely still burst around here though. We had a nasty cold snap that lasted weeks a few years back and it started taking things out that hadn't had problems before. It was breaking some main lines that weren't buried deep enough, which would foul up the water just like Texas. But those were still isolated events. Part of the problem is our snow cover was also poor that year, its amusing but even snow is an insulator against deep negative temps.

@PingSpike Are you a fan of Daft Punk? I am a Daft Punk fan. Just asking based of your profile avatar.

 

[PingSpike]

@PingSpike Are you a fan of Daft Punk? I am a Daft Punk fan. Just asking based of your profile avatar.

Yes, not a super fan or anything but I am a fan. I love their aesthetic of course. I heard they have retired recently.

 

[Wreckem]

I do not get this. I've lived in homes from New England to Florida, homes built from 1900 to 2000, and none of them had issues of winter at its worse, let alone the ability to heat above 40F in the worse of times. But then again my experiences lack Texas, which is an exception to everything, IMO. BTW, my home doesn't have insulated pipes, we suffered through two weeks in the 20's in the day and had no issues heating our homes--or driving the neighborhood. It isn't the cold that gets the people of North GA (where I now reside), it their fear of the white stuff. Funny thing is, the snow acts like an insulator when the temps plunge well below freezing.

The issue was power. Texas had essentially a meltdown of its power grid. Most damage was caused because power was out for extended periods of time that lead to pipes freezing. Even if you are on natural gas, the furnace still requires electricity to turn on.

It was cold enough that pools froze solid. All the poor unfortunate souls that didn’t winterize their pools.

 

[FelixDeCat]

All the poor unfortunate souls ...

Its like all the poor unfortunate souls in colder climes like Alaska that dont have air conditioning and then its 110F in Fairbanks.

Oops.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The issue was power. Texas had essentially a meltdown of its power grid. Most damage was caused because power was out for extended periods of time that lead to pipes freezing. Even if you are on natural gas, the furnace still requires electricity to turn on.

It was cold enough that pools froze solid. All the poor unfortunate souls that didn’t winterize their pools.

Eh, electricity is #1 but in a pretty close 2nd is #2 which is middle-school level education. Running your car for heat in a garage is seriously a reflection of just how bad our education has become. Same with running a generator in your home.

Also fireplaces don't require electricity. While ours has an "auto-start" function that doesn't allow me to use a lighter - most will. But most have a back-up battery function, which ours (and everyone in our neighborhood) does have.

Along with education is things like insulating pipes where possible, running water, etc.

 

[local]

The majority of leaks in commercial buildings we were called out on were the sprinkler lines in the above ceiling spaces. Uninsulated steel pipe in areas with no direct or adjacent heat for 2-3 days in single digit weather. We are also seeing a lot of water meter breaks. They are usually about 12" deep in a simple vault with no insulation. Just not built for this kind of weather.

 

[brianmanahan]

Its like all the poor unfortunate souls in colder climes like Alaska that dont have air conditioning and then its 110F in Fairbanks.

Oops.

meanwhile, sitting comfortably in my abode built in a region where temperatures range from from -30F to 105F:

 

[Torn Mind]

Generally, I'd say that many homes in the NE are heated by oil or gas, and have a backup source of heating in case that fails (eg a fireplace). In Texas, I'd reckon that nearly every fireplace in a home built since the 70s or 80s is not designed to heat a room or home and is purely a source of decoration.

Our temperatures got down to the low 50's during the day last week, but we also got back electricity and were able to run our forced gas furnace every night to bring the temp back up to ~70 before they shut it back off at ~7-8am. We have a gas fireplace as well, but that puts out only the small amount of heat that conducts through the brick and convects to the space in the very large, high ceiling living room. I suspect that many people were in a very similar situation here.

In terms of piping - I think most of the homes with well built piping, insulated outdoors and at least remotely insulated in the attic, fared OK. Most of the breakages I've seen thus far are with people who have shitty PVC or CPVC plumbing inside their homes, didn't insulate outdoors, and didn't have some level of insulation in their attic areas. Our pipes are old galvanized pipes and are insulated in the attic, as well as having blown in insulation covering much of it.

In terms of road conditions, on Monday when we got snow, it was very driveable if you knew how to drive on it - however once it compacted and warmed up a bit through the day, since there was absolutely no plowing, no deicer, etc, it became worse. Once it re-froze overnight on Monday, it was nearly impassable on Tuesday until the sun melted a lot of it. I drove the neighborhood and watched many people coasting right through stop signs because they couldn't gauge their braking.

If the matter is just not having frozen pipes, setting the thermostat to 55-60 degrees is enough to protect them in the usual Maryland winters, which are cold but not as severe as a Midwest cold snap. Due to the hilly terrain and/or isolation, some places are not serviced by gas and have electric only. Attic plumbing is not common, although if there is no basement, I have seen it.

CPVC is the only choice in well water areas since acidic water eats up copper.

Copper bursts too.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Looks like this issue in TX is affecting us even here with gas prices. Ridiculous how a country this size has to rely on others for a resource that we literally have here.

Timmins motorists hit with spike in gas prices

Bitter pill for motorists to swallow when they see gas in surrounding area selling at lower prices

www.timminspress.com

Its like all the poor unfortunate souls in colder climes like Alaska that dont have air conditioning and then its 110F in Fairbanks.

Oops.

I don't know about Alaska but here where I live A/C is getting more common now days due to climate change. Last summer was brutal hot, we got +30's and even hotter. You can't buy small A/C units when it's that hot either since they are sold out everywhere. I have a portable unit that I was going to sell but decided to keep it in case my central one ever breaks down.

 

[spacejamz]

I do not get this. I've lived in homes from New England to Florida, homes built from 1900 to 2000, and none of them had issues of winter at its worse, let alone the ability to heat above 40F in the worse of times. But then again my experiences lack Texas, which is an exception to everything, IMO. BTW, my home doesn't have insulated pipes, we suffered through two weeks in the 20's in the day and had no issues heating our homes--or driving the neighborhood. It isn't the cold that gets the people of North GA (where I now reside), it their fear of the white stuff. Funny thing is, the snow acts like an insulator when the temps plunge well below freezing.

many of these folks were subject to rolling blackouts and many actually had no power for days....you can't heat your home if you have no electricity or only have power for a few hours a day....that was probably the biggest issue...

 

[FelixDeCat]

Looks like this issue in TX is affecting us even here with gas prices. Ridiculous how a country this size has to rely on others for a resource that we literally have here.

Timmins motorists hit with spike in gas prices

Bitter pill for motorists to swallow when they see gas in surrounding area selling at lower prices

www.timminspress.com

I don't know about Alaska but here where I live A/C is getting more common now days due to climate change. Last summer was brutal hot, we got +30's and even hotter. You can't buy small A/C units when it's that hot either since they are sold out everywhere. I have a portable unit that I was going to sell but decided to keep it in case my central one ever breaks down.

Yes. When people move to Texas they are usually shocked by our persistent summer high pressure ridges that pop up in late May and dont leave until early August. Temps are usually at or near 100F for 30+ consecutive days. The heat island effect of all the asphalt and concrete makes sure we are nice and toasty at night too, usually 80-85F at midnight. 😱

 

[MrSquished]

According to a WSJ exclusive, that communist rag, Texans have paid 28 billion dollars extra since 2004, due to deregulation, not to mention, this disaster would have been averted

Texas Electric Bills Were $28 Billion Higher Under Deregulation https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-...billion-higher-under-deregulation-11614162780

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yes. When people move to Texas they are usually shocked by our persistent summer high pressure ridges that pop up in late May and dont leave until early August. Temps are usually at or near 100F for 30+ consecutive days. The heat island effect of all the asphalt and concrete makes sure we are nice and toasty at night too, usually 80-85F at midnight. 😱

Yup. Just bought a variable speed AC so I can fuckin' crank my AC down easily to 65 at night during those bloody hot summer months with ease.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Yup. Just bought a variable speed AC so I can fuckin' crank my AC down easily to 65 at night during those bloody hot summer months with ease.

I used to like to go walking at night. Lots of regular folks out there at 9PM by the river trails. Sometimes you might even catch a cool breeze. 🙂

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I used to like to go walking at night. Lots of regular folks out there at 9PM by the river trails. Sometimes you might even catch a cool breeze. 🙂

Pretty much. Night is the only time I'll dare step outside. Otherwise it's hermit-crab season for 8+ months.

 

[Svnla]

Several member of the board that runs the grid system in Texas are gone. An investigation is on the way. A little too late because the horses are long gone from the barn.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Several member of the board that runs the grid system in Texas are gone. An investigation is on the way. A little too late because the horses are long gone from the barn.

The only ones that left the board (and I think there were 16 on the board?) were the 6 that didn't live in Texas.

To which I say - thats a stupid cop-out. Every single board member is open to scrutiny. Whether someone lives in the state or not is of zero concern to me - thats mostly because I'm a reasonable person that doesn't give a flying fuck where someone is currently located at as long as they operate like a competent person.... Which I know, is easier said than done.

Six ERCOT members resign after catastrophic Texas blackouts during winter storm

The six resignations were finalized after an urgent board meeting on Wednesday morning.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Red Squirrel]

Apparantly some people are getting hit with insane bills, that is messed up that they can just randomly change the rate like that. Some bills are in the 10's of thousands. That's enough to install a half decent solar system. Would suck being stuck paying that knowing you could have put the money towards being grid dependent instead. Though if they are a state where you are forced to be connected then I guess you'd be stuck with the bill either way.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Apparantly some people are getting hit with insane bills, that is messed up that they can just randomly change the rate like that. Some bills are in the 10's of thousands. That's enough to install a half decent solar system. Would suck being stuck paying that knowing you could have put the money towards being grid dependent instead. Though if they are a state where you are forced to be connected then I guess you'd be stuck with the bill either way.

See my previous posts. They CANT change the rate if you picked a fixed-rate - which isn't difficult - just go to www.powertochoose.org to see how difficult it is.

The folks that people are VALIANTLY defending are those that signed up for a SPECIFIC service like www.griddy.com AKA "Griddy" that gives MARKET-BASED pricing . They pay $9.99 /month in order to have the privilege to be actively charged the going-market rate for their electric service. Literally in real-time they get alerts on their smart-phone that says "Right now electric rates \are high! Consider lowering your usage until rates go back down!"

The problem - ultimately - is these people loved the lower rates that us fixed-rate people don't have the privilege of using - but they of course never accounted for long-term spikes like the ones that occurred during this outage.... to which I say.... fuck em'. While they were enjoying below average rates while I was paying average rates - all of a sudden they wanted to go back to average. This is no different than credit card idiots that charge shit to credit cards and later say "But-but... I didn't know what I was doing!!!". Fuck off. Ignorance isn't an excuse in life little boy. You enjoyed the fruits when it was lower but now want a bail out when it's higher. You reap what you sow is the VERY minimal of what should be learned.

 

[Red Squirrel]

See my previous posts. They CANT change the rate if you picked a fixed-rate - which isn't difficult - just go to www.powertochoose.org to see how difficult it is.

The folks that people are VALIANTLY defending are those that signed up for a SPECIFIC service like www.griddy.com AKA "Griddy" that gives MARKET-BASED pricing . They pay $9.99 /month in order to have the privilege to be actively charged the going-market rate for their electric service. Literally in real-time they get alerts on their smart-phone that says "Right now electric rates \are high! Consider lowering your usage until rates go back down!"

The problem - ultimately - is these people loved the lower rates that us fixed-rate people don't have the privilege of using - but they of course never accounted for long-term spikes like the ones that occurred during this outage.... to which I say.... fuck em'. While they were enjoying below average rates while I was paying average rates - all of a sudden they wanted to go back to average. This is no different than credit card idiots that charge shit to credit cards and later say "But-but... I didn't know what I was doing!!!". Fuck off. Ignorance isn't an excuse in life little boy. You enjoyed the fruits when it was lower but now want a bail out when it's higher. You reap what you sow is the VERY minimal of what should be learned.

But how are they suppose to know it can go THAT high, there should still be some kind of limit or at very least there should be the option to set a cut off where it just turns off your power if it goes to an insane rate. Honestly if I had that option and not knowing the rate can literally go into the 10's of thousands, I'd probably be tempted to sign up for it myself.

They should also offer an API of sorts where you can just send a HTTP GET request to get the current rate that way it would be easy to interface with an actuator that can just shut off the main breaker. Since if you get that alert and you're not home then you'd still be kind of screwed.

I guess it's similar to cell roaming / data overusage fees. If you're not aware of it you can easily rack up bills in the 10's of thousands. I think this sort of stuff is predatory though, there really needs to be consumer protection laws against this sort of stuff to limit high high a bill can be racked up. Default to double and then cut off service but let the user choose what it can be set to.

 

[Leeea]

Texas:

It seems doomed to repeat again. Going after the ercot board, blame game, etc. At this point it just seems unrecoverable spiral of doom for those poor people.

 

[Torn Mind]

See my previous posts. They CANT change the rate if you picked a fixed-rate - which isn't difficult - just go to www.powertochoose.org to see how difficult it is.

The folks that people are VALIANTLY defending are those that signed up for a SPECIFIC service like www.griddy.com AKA "Griddy" that gives MARKET-BASED pricing . They pay $9.99 /month in order to have the privilege to be actively charged the going-market rate for their electric service. Literally in real-time they get alerts on their smart-phone that says "Right now electric rates \are high! Consider lowering your usage until rates go back down!"

The problem - ultimately - is these people loved the lower rates that us fixed-rate people don't have the privilege of using - but they of course never accounted for long-term spikes like the ones that occurred during this outage.... to which I say.... fuck em'. While they were enjoying below average rates while I was paying average rates - all of a sudden they wanted to go back to average. This is no different than credit card idiots that charge shit to credit cards and later say "But-but... I didn't know what I was doing!!!". Fuck off. Ignorance isn't an excuse in life little boy. You enjoyed the fruits when it was lower but now want a bail out when it's higher. You reap what you sow is the VERY minimal of what should be learned.

But how are they suppose to know it can go THAT high, there should still be some kind of limit or at very least there should be the option to set a cut off where it just turns off your power if it goes to an insane rate. Honestly if I had that option and not knowing the rate can literally go into the 10's of thousands, I'd probably be tempted to sign up for it myself.

They should also offer an API of sorts where you can just send a HTTP GET request to get the current rate that way it would be easy to interface with an actuator that can just shut off the main breaker. Since if you get that alert and you're not home then you'd still be kind of screwed.

I guess it's similar to cell roaming / data overusage fees. If you're not aware of it you can easily rack up bills in the 10's of thousands. I think this sort of stuff is predatory though, there really needs to be consumer protection laws against this sort of stuff to limit high high a bill can be racked up. Default to double and then cut off service but let the user choose what it can be set to.

Griddy's take is here: https://www.griddy.com/post/griddy-update-why-energy-prices-were-sky-high-this-week

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Generally, I'd say that many homes in the NE are heated by oil or gas, and have a backup source of heating in case that fails (eg a fireplace). In Texas, I'd reckon that nearly every fireplace in a home built since the 70s or 80s is not designed to heat a room or home and is purely a source of decoration.

Our temperatures got down to the low 50's during the day last week, but we also got back electricity and were able to run our forced gas furnace every night to bring the temp back up to ~70 before they shut it back off at ~7-8am. We have a gas fireplace as well, but that puts out only the small amount of heat that conducts through the brick and convects to the space in the very large, high ceiling living room. I suspect that many people were in a very similar situation here.

In terms of piping - I think most of the homes with well built piping, insulated outdoors and at least remotely insulated in the attic, fared OK. Most of the breakages I've seen thus far are with people who have shitty PVC or CPVC plumbing inside their homes, didn't insulate outdoors, and didn't have some level of insulation in their attic areas. Our pipes are old galvanized pipes and are insulated in the attic, as well as having blown in insulation covering much of it.

In terms of road conditions, on Monday when we got snow, it was very driveable if you knew how to drive on it - however once it compacted and warmed up a bit through the day, since there was absolutely no plowing, no deicer, etc, it became worse. Once it re-froze overnight on Monday, it was nearly impassable on Tuesday until the sun melted a lot of it. I drove the neighborhood and watched many people coasting right through stop signs because they couldn't gauge their braking.

The duplex I lived in while attending UF (Gainesville, FL) had natural gas for general heating and hot water. Apparently their electrical grid, which I never experienced an outage during my entire time in the state of Florida, never failed me. Not one single outage--which Georgia can't even do. So, Floridians >> Texans? 😛