Discussion Mass Effect Legendary Edition + New Mass Effect

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
107,771
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Let me give you an example - there are right hand dominant folks in the world and left hand dominant (lefties, southpaws). I read somewhere the percentage is ~96% to 4% and in all daily life this is irrelevant and no one is judging you whether you are right handed or left handed, there are some inconveniences (given world trying to satisfy absolute majority first), however that is about it.

Now imagine some game studio went crazy and wanted to fight for 'leftie rights' or 'be most leftie friendly company' or 'fight leftie discrimination' and committed to

- making just as many lefty characters as righty characters

- making sure those lefties are very outspoken and spit that out at you whenever you ask them or not in places relevant and irrelevant (see! I am proud of being a leftie! yawn , I dont care, can we come back to the story please)

- making sure that if there is romance , at least half of romance option MUST be explicitly left handed, when he grabs her boob it must be with left hand only (and reverse). Why? I dont know, to combat discrimination I guess

- make sure that there are characters that keep telling you that 600 years in the future in the future they still feel leftie oppression (look at me I was forced to be a rightly before while I am really a leftie but I am proud now, give me my rainbow flag!)

as gamer, I want a story, I don't care (and would not even notice) if you touch this mug with left hand , right hand, or whatever.
I will politely (and patiently) listen to character blabbering about 'leftie pride' or whatever if that fits in the story
However, I get bored and annoyed if this is shoved in my face over and over again, even when it does not belong.

Replace 'leftie' with LGBT and you get what this studio was very proud to declare they are making Andromeda to be , almost exactly. Forcing half of romance choices to be that , creating cringing characters that preach at you, spending resources after release (when many things were very broken) to go back and change the animation to add more 'leftie scenes and dialog' to ensure forced 50% "balance". really? you did not had anything else to work one and instead prioritized THIS?? where was adult supervision (publisher) in any of this?

Few big problems with approach taken
- when you pounder to very small minority (there is approximately the same percentage of lefties as gay people) and forget to actually make a game, you forgot to make a game. Neglect.
- studio heads got so swept up in the whole 'pride' thing, that they forgot to tell their employees that they are actually making a product to sell (not some political statement activism ) on someone else's dime. that includes keeping your personal beliefs personal, and sticking to work at work. It is really stupid in sales to alienate ANY of your potential customers for zero reason yet that studio chosen to employ people who went public posting very offending things (think racism ) on social media while identifying themselves as employees. Any serious company would tell person to shove it immediately and/or fire afterwards (stick to work at work, treat people professionally, and of cause dont insult your customers). Failure to supervise on behalf of management
- publisher was asleep at the wheel too. You give money to _them_? and you dont check what they are doing? and you dont control their message on your game?

immature, insulting behavior some amateur studio that never done anything like this before that was not managed or supervised by either their own management or publisher. good riddance.

Hopefully new Mass Effect is developed somewhere else and not by these guys (if they are still around) . And hopefully grown ups with basic common sense would ensure that all of the millennials facebook warriors stick to their facebook little echo chambers and that work is different from activism , and instead focus on what use to make Bioware great ->engaging story
wut
 
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simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
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The way I saw it is in ME1/2, reapers were considered evil bent on destroying the galaxy because there wasn't any information to say otherwise. All they knew was there was these big machines that wanted to kill everybody.

In ME3 we learned this wasn't the case. Reapers were not evil, but they were responsible for an untold number of lives being lost each time the cycle came to an end. And that cycle would continue forever if it wasn't stopped. They also learned that the cycles were there for a reason.

So yes, the way the reapers were portrayed did change as you went through the games. But it was because with knowledge, comes understanding.
Yes, that is one way of thinking about it . I had problems buying the whole 'evil is not evil, it is just misunderstood' message and though it devalued everything done in earlier games (if Reapers are not evil and should not be fully stopped, then why did I fought Saren/Sovereign intended on calling them out from their deep sleep?). I thought Bioware got lost a bit in the these machines are extremely powerful (to be seen as God by lesser species) and yet weak enough to be destroyed on multiple occasions (each major planet had me fighting a reaper and beating it).

This got me thinking onto what story would they create as next Mass Effect
a. something completely new (and new charater)
b. more Rider in Andromeda setting (in the future)
c. some form of re-awaked Shepard.

Personally, I hope it is not c and they let original story stay as is. However, I don't know
 
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Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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Yes, that is one way of thinking about it . I had problems buying the whole 'evil is not evil, it is just misunderstood' message and though it devalued everything done in earlier games (if Reapers are not evil and should not be fully stopped, then why did I fought Saren/Sovereign intended on calling them out from their deep sleep?). I thought Bioware got lost a bit in the these machines are extremely powerful (to be seen as God by lesser species) and yet weak enough to be destroyed on multiple occasions (each major planet had me fighting a reaper and beating it).

This got me thinking onto what story would they create as next Mass Effect
a. something completely new (and new charater)
b. more Rider in Andromeda setting (in the future)
c. some form of re-awaked Shepard.

Personally, I hope it is not c and they let original story stay as is. However, I don't know
Yeah, I think Shepard's story is finished, and it should stay that way.

I think a new game will either be in Andromeda, or it could be a prequel going back to the founding of the N7.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
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Andromeda has potential, they can do a soft reset of Andromeda by having Ryder and co jump to a new star system and actually, you know, explore. I really hope they take this route, flesh out the Kett slot, introduce a bunch of new alien species (and not have them all be bipeds) and leave some of the older species behind or give them more token roles (kinda tired of Asari/Turian/cracked out dudes dynamic).

The Milky Way story is all kinds of dead. A new Shep game would be like "The Rise of Skywalker" and just undo much of the pathos from the former games and really what stakes are going to rise to "Galactic annihilation", everything is going to feel to small afterward.

A prequel suffers a similar problem where you already know the endgame of the Galaxy... Who cares what piddling stuff you do as an N7 operative (especially given how Specters / N7 rank were basically thrown away after the first game).

Otherwise the only other annoying writing trope you end up with is the "Shep only succeeded because of things your prequel character set in motion but now we have to retcon a bunch of crap to make this work" which is also a very meh way to go.

IMO only way for series to proceed is an Andromeda 2 with a clean slate to work with.
 
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ArenCordial

Senior member
Sep 18, 2012
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if Reapers are not evil and should not be fully stopped, then why did I fought Saren/Sovereign intended on calling them out from their deep sleep?.
Its honestly worse than that. I mean why did Saren and Sovereign even need to attack the Citadel when Starkid, essentially Reaper overlord, was on station the whole time? ME3 invalidated the whole point of ME1 and you don't even need to get into morality.

Andromeda has potential, they can do a soft reset of Andromeda by having Ryder and co jump to a new star system and actually, you know, explore. I really hope they take this route, flesh out the Kett slot, introduce a bunch of new alien species (and not have them all be bipeds) and leave some of the older species behind or give them more token roles (kinda tired of Asari/Turian/cracked out dudes dynamic).

The Milky Way story is all kinds of dead. A new Shep game would be like "The Rise of Skywalker" and just undo much of the pathos from the former games and really what stakes are going to rise to "Galactic annihilation", everything is going to feel to small afterward.

A prequel suffers a similar problem where you already know the endgame of the Galaxy... Who cares what piddling stuff you do as an N7 operative (especially given how Specters / N7 rank were basically thrown away after the first game).

Otherwise the only other annoying writing trope you end up with is the "Shep only succeeded because of things your prequel character set in motion but now we have to retcon a bunch of crap to make this work" which is also a very meh way to go.

IMO only way for series to proceed is an Andromeda 2 with a clean slate to work with.
Yeah I agree with you here. Post-ME3 milky way is dead unless the pick an ending and risk pissing off people. They really torpedoed their own franchise. Andromeda does have potential but given its reception I think they'd probably move away from Ryder and crew. Andromeda is a huge galaxy with plenty of room to tell stories if they wish. Andromeda the game only really focused on one cluster so there's a lot they could do here.
 
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ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
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They didn't even finish the third game. Instead of a boss battle in the end based on assets gathered throughout the three games, they used cut scenes.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
4,020
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Yeah I agree with you here. Post-ME3 milky way is dead unless the pick an ending and risk pissing off people. They really torpedoed their own franchise. Andromeda does have potential but given its reception I think they'd probably move away from Ryder and crew. Andromeda is a huge galaxy with plenty of room to tell stories if they wish. Andromeda the game only really focused on one cluster so there's a lot they could do here.
- I don't necessarily agree with "torpedoed their own franchise". I really appreciate the ME3 ending (hell, even the original one) as its the closest thing to an act of art a corporate studio like Bioware could muster. There is no coming back from that, to the point that continuing the franchise meant having to come up with a contrived reason to be in *another galaxy entirely*. It was actually refreshing to see a franchise, or at least the primary story arc, having an actual lid put on top of it and not (as of yet) get dug up and shat on continuously until whatever emotional impact it carried it is gone entirely.

Andromeda's release was so rocky that it could very well have torpedoed the whole franchise. I am not particularly emotionally tied to either Ryder or their crew, so absolutely no qualms about moving on from that group entirely. The Quarian Ark subplot could be a good place to kick off, with the Ark showing up way off course in a new star system on the verge of meltdown, all systems critical. Maybe Bioware can finally allow us to pick a species for our PC and we can either play as a Quarian/Asari/Human/Turian and we have to actually do what the first game promised and survive/make contact with a plethora of new species/conquer or cohabilitate with the natives.
 
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Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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- I don't necessarily agree with "torpedoed their own franchise". I really appreciate the ME3 ending (hell, even the original one) as its the closest thing to an act of art a corporate studio like Bioware could muster. There is no coming back from that, to the point that continuing the franchise meant having to come up with a contrived reason to be in *another galaxy entirely*. It was actually refreshing to see a franchise, or at least the primary story arc, having an actual lid put on top of it and not (as of yet) get dug up and shat on continuously until whatever emotional impact it carried it is gone entirely.

Andromeda's release was so rocky that it could very well have torpedoed the whole franchise. I am not particularly emotionally tied to either Ryder or their crew, so absolutely no qualms about moving on from that group entirely. The Quarian Ark subplot could be a good place to kick off, with the Ark showing up way off course in a new star system on the verge of meltdown, all systems critical. Maybe Bioware can finally allow us to pick a species for our PC and we can either play as a Quarian/Asari/Human/Turian and we have to actually do what the first game promised and survive/make contact with a plethora of new species/conquer or cohabilitate with the natives.
Being able to play as another race would be awesome. I am really bummed we didn't get any DLC to fill all the plot holes.
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
410
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Its honestly worse than that. I mean why did Saren and Sovereign even need to attack the Citadel when Starkid, essentially Reaper overlord, was on station the whole time? ME3 invalidated the whole point of ME1 and you don't even need to get into morality.



Yeah I agree with you here. Post-ME3 milky way is dead unless the pick an ending and risk pissing off people. They really torpedoed their own franchise. Andromeda does have potential but given its reception I think they'd probably move away from Ryder and crew. Andromeda is a huge galaxy with plenty of room to tell stories if they wish. Andromeda the game only really focused on one cluster so there's a lot they could do here.

Just read they they are continuing the ME3 story - same galaxy, same assumed conclusion of ME3..
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,226
4,535
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ME without the Mystery is just a Universe with a particular Transportation system. It has become a Transit Bus simulator....
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
54,139
6,690
126
Skeptical , we will see what the final product looks like and whether they have learned any lessons at all, i.e.
- hire good writers, hire good writers, hire good writers. characters that matter , that you want to relate to and care about.

- stop with entire SJW BS crusades and use your resources efficiently. the entire 'most friendly to X' company is stupid if you are pondering to at most 5% of the population all in the name of political correctness. as example, if you want to ensure same 5% of the population wants to ensure that their romance choices at at least 50% , that is unrealistic and total waste. We are ok with all sorts of choices, just stop shoving it down our throats.

- figure out if you want Mass Effect to be what is was best (single player RPG 'action-adventure'), online shooter, or something in between. Split it, create Mass Effect MP as multi player only game for those who dont have enough of shooters available, leave the core experience alone. remove the required tie in (galactic readiness or whatever you called it). create a good single player game first before spending a second on multi player.
Like, I'd be sorry we ruined your game if it hadn't already been on a downward slope after ME1 anyway (loved the first one, walked away from ME2 after 8-10 hours, same deal with Dragon Age, first one great, 2nd one ruined by being aimed at console market).

Actually, that's a lie, I still wouldn't be sorry, I hope the next one is SUPER gay :)
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,226
4,535
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Like, I'd be sorry we ruined your game if it hadn't already been on a downward slope after ME1 anyway (loved the first one, walked away from ME2 after 8-10 hours, same deal with Dragon Age, first one great, 2nd one ruined by being aimed at console market).

Actually, that's a lie, I still wouldn't be sorry, I hope the next one is SUPER gay :)
ME2 fixed a lot of the UI issues ME had. ME had all the good parts of the Story which gave it intrigue that the latter games lacked.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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I think you are being very generous with "meh" rating for the ME3 ending. I thought the ME3 undid everything that ME1 and ME2 were trying to set up in terms of world and message, ending wise. Thinking about it , my choices were destroy, control, or 'synergy' with synergy between synthetic and organic life being presenting as 'good choice'. what??? if merging with reapers is the good outcome why did I fight Saren in ME1 that had the same message?? why did I bother with ME2 and fighting Collectors that were just working on synergy between humans and human reaper. This made no sense to me, it is like they completely reversed the lore in third game and what was evil and wrong become 'good' outcome..
IIRC, there was a cut plotline in ME2 about the overuse of mass relays creating dark matter disturbances which are causing some stars, and eventually all of them in the galaxy to burn out much faster than normal. Not sure how that's gonna work out narratively with reapers but its surely a lot more interesting than ME3.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
4,020
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IIRC, there was a cut plotline in ME2 about the overuse of mass relays creating dark matter disturbances which are causing some stars, and eventually all of them in the galaxy to burn out much faster than normal. Not sure how that's gonna work out narratively with reapers but its surely a lot more interesting than ME3.
- Nothing like having an entire game franchise borrow its core plot from one forgettable Star Trek: The Next Generation filler episode (Warp speed causing tears in reality, requiring the Federation to put speed limits on their ships... which was promptly forgotten in the next episode) :p
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
410
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-God damn it
I dont want to be encouraged or discouraged at this point, too early. All we have is a trailer which I am puzzled on why it is even released if nothing exists yet. Is this another coming in 2023 may be game? then yes, moved to mid 2024, and possibly finished by end of 2024 if we are lucky and then launched with everyone complaining about bugs before end of 2024 (see Cyberpunk)

I also wish they would actually decided what they are making and communicated it. Is this single player? multi-player? RPG? 'open word adventure'? What are you doing with this?

Once you as Bioware decide, can you please just execute on doing it (vs re-imagining it every 6 months and dragging it forever as you did with other projects of yours).

i.e. if they want to make Mass Effect Online (similar to ESO), feel free to make it, and may be it would have its own audience (just not myself)
If you want to make Mass Effect, make mass effect single player and forget online.

trying to do everything ends up with making nothing..

signed, Mass Effect fan for over a decade...
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
4,020
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I dont want to be encouraged or discouraged at this point, too early. All we have is a trailer which I am puzzled on why it is even released if nothing exists yet. Is this another coming in 2023 may be game? then yes, moved to mid 2024, and possibly finished by end of 2024 if we are lucky and then launched with everyone complaining about bugs before end of 2024 (see Cyberpunk)

I also wish they would actually decided what they are making and communicated it. Is this single player? multi-player? RPG? 'open word adventure'? What are you doing with this?

Once you as Bioware decide, can you please just execute on doing it (vs re-imagining it every 6 months and dragging it forever as you did with other projects of yours).

i.e. if they want to make Mass Effect Online (similar to ESO), feel free to make it, and may be it would have its own audience (just not myself)
If you want to make Mass Effect, make mass effect single player and forget online.

trying to do everything ends up with making nothing..

signed, Mass Effect fan for over a decade...
- Was simply responding to all the commentary in this thread of the "Milky Way story line is dead" and that (and maybe I'm the only person in the ME fanbase here) I'd honestly prefer a cleaned up sequel to Andromeda than I would ever want to go back and kick start the Milky Way plot.

This is going to be the SW sequel trilogy all over again, where they take every good thing from the OT and retcon the crap out of it so it no longer means anything anymore.
 
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simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
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- Was simply responding to all the commentary in this thread of the "Milky Way story line is dead" and that (and maybe I'm the only person in the ME fanbase here) I'd honestly prefer a cleaned up sequel to Andromeda than I would ever want to go back and kick start the Milky Way plot.

This is going to be the SW sequel trilogy all over again, where they take every good thing from the OT and retcon the crap out of it so it no longer means anything anymore.
you are not the only one in the fanbase here , I have the same opinion. I did not like at all what they done with the story in ME3 and think that yes, that universe is now very hard to undo what ME3 damaged..
 
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GodisanAtheist

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Some updates on the game:

- ME1 is going to get some amount of reworking, including changes to UI and Mako handling.
- ME2 & 3 are basically getting updated texture and lighting packs.
- Unified character creator for all the games with "more options".
- All DLC/Armors/Etc included
- Releasing 5/14.
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
410
106
116

Some updates on the game:

- ME1 is going to get some amount of reworking, including changes to UI and Mako handling.
- ME2 & 3 are basically getting updated texture and lighting packs.
- Unified character creator for all the games with "more options".
- All DLC/Armors/Etc included
- Releasing 5/14.
Thanks, I thought they just reported that can get most of the DLC - for some they were unable to get code from former developer and could not recover from any backups they had. Either way, I will probably rebuy to re-live the story..
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,474
397
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Some updates on the game:

- ME1 is going to get some amount of reworking, including changes to UI and Mako handling.
- ME2 & 3 are basically getting updated texture and lighting packs.
- Unified character creator for all the games with "more options".
- All DLC/Armors/Etc included
- Releasing 5/14.
Thanks, I thought they just reported that can get most of the DLC - for some they were unable to get code from former developer and could not recover from any backups they had. Either way, I will probably rebuy to re-live the story..
That would be Pinnacle Station being missing.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,064
309
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Yes, that's basically what it was.

I wonder if it works with the save games from the originals. I have kept saves of hundreds of key moments in all three games, so I can try different choices in them.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
5,678
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Pinnacle Station was only playable in really early releases. The source files for it were all corrupted on their local storage somehow. So later releases never had it, which is why this release also does not have it.

They also said the ME1 will gain the controls of ME2, and the class restrictions for weapons in ME1 will be removed to move it inline with ME2 and ME3.
 

Coalfax

Senior member
Nov 22, 2002
369
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There also seems to be a brew-ha-ha on the Steam forums in that EA will be updating "camera angles" for some of the Miranda shots in the update...
 

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