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Discussion Mass Effect Legendary Edition + New Mass Effect

GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
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Regarding the Legendary Edition:

The original Mass Effect Trilogy is easily one of the best gaming series I have ever played, but the DLC situation was such a mess for so long (Bioware points, lol) that by the time EA packaged the DLC and started putting them on sale I had largely moved on. I think it will be nice to essentially get a complete edition with all the DLC and some "official" graphics mods baked in will be a nice gesture. That said and done, I can't see myself picking this up for more than $10-15 bucks, and only then if it does not follow like many recent "remasters" that are buggier/less stable/look worse than the original.

Would be an incredible series to throw all the Raytracing goodness at though, given how much lighting plays such a crucial role in the mood and look of the games. Old enough that RayTracing won't necessarily crater framerates to unplayable levels either.

Regarding the new Mass Effect:

I'm just glad that Anthem did not kill off Bioware, despite the game's obvious disappointing reception. I also hope Bioware has the cajones to stick with the Andromeda series and keep a lid on the Milky Way story line. I just don't see a way to revive that story without badly undermining the previous games, while there is really nowhere to go but up from Andromeda.

Bioware has figured out how to make reasonably entertaining shooters, but have traded that for their signature storytelling and characters. Bioware needs to return to their "mission" based formula of creating tight story driven content (Overarching storylines with side missions that serve as little vignettes that flesh out the universe they've made). Give us a new galaxy's worth of species and alien cultures to get to know, stop rehashing the old Milky Way species.
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
305
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Skeptical , we will see what the final product looks like and whether they have learned any lessons at all, i.e.
- hire good writers, hire good writers, hire good writers. characters that matter , that you want to relate to and care about.

- stop with entire SJW BS crusades and use your resources efficiently. the entire 'most friendly to X' company is stupid if you are pondering to at most 5% of the population all in the name of political correctness. as example, if you want to ensure same 5% of the population wants to ensure that their romance choices at at least 50% , that is unrealistic and total waste. We are ok with all sorts of choices, just stop shoving it down our throats.

- figure out if you want Mass Effect to be what is was best (single player RPG 'action-adventure'), online shooter, or something in between. Split it, create Mass Effect MP as multi player only game for those who dont have enough of shooters available, leave the core experience alone. remove the required tie in (galactic readiness or whatever you called it). create a good single player game first before spending a second on multi player.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
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I think it's hard not to be skeptic after Andromeda. More ME2 and expansive universe or don't bother us.
 

GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
2,713
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Skeptical , we will see what the final product looks like and whether they have learned any lessons at all, i.e.
- hire good writers, hire good writers, hire good writers. characters that matter , that you want to relate to and care about.
-Agreed. Andromeda was full of bland sort of milquetoast characters. I was honestly amazed they did not take the opportunity to include a Kett character to spice up the writing a bit.

- stop with entire SJW BS crusades and use your resources efficiently. the entire 'most friendly to X' company is stupid if you are pondering to at most 5% of the population all in the name of political correctness. as example, if you want to ensure same 5% of the population wants to ensure that their romance choices at at least 50% , that is unrealistic and total waste. We are ok with all sorts of choices, just stop shoving it down our throats.
- I hear this refrain a lot regarding Andromeda especially but I'm never really sure what people are referencing. When playing the game, I never got a real SJW vibe, but just more of a bad writing / attitude that diversity automatically = interesting when you can have a diverse cast of boring characters. Again, adding a Kett crewmember that took a slightly antagonistic tone with the crew would have been a cheap and easy way to really elevate the tension/drama/dialogue of the game and bring in a classic Sci-Fi theme of how similar humans are despite our differences in the face of something really alien.

- figure out if you want Mass Effect to be what is was best (single player RPG 'action-adventure'), online shooter, or something in between. Split it, create Mass Effect MP as multi player only game for those who dont have enough of shooters available, leave the core experience alone. remove the required tie in (galactic readiness or whatever you called it). create a good single player game first before spending a second on multi player.
- Agreed. I didn't mind strike teams, and the mechanic was kinda introduced with the war room mini-game in DA: Inquisition, but the core narrative really needs to be there. Andromeda was supposed to be about exploring a new Galaxy, alien worlds, unexplored territory. What we got was the same main races from the core games rehashed, everything was already explored and settled, you weren't the first ones there at all, in fact a whole bunch of stuff had already happened and failed by the time you got there. Lame.
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
305
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- I hear this refrain a lot regarding Andromeda especially but I'm never really sure what people are referencing. When playing the game, I never got a real SJW vibe, but just more of a bad writing / attitude that diversity automatically = interesting when you can have a diverse cast of boring characters. Again, adding a Kett crewmember that took a slightly antagonistic tone with the crew would have been a cheap and easy way to really elevate the tension/drama/dialogue of the game and bring in a classic Sci-Fi theme of how similar humans are despite our differences in the face of something really alien.
Let me give you an example - there are right hand dominant folks in the world and left hand dominant (lefties, southpaws). I read somewhere the percentage is ~96% to 4% and in all daily life this is irrelevant and no one is judging you whether you are right handed or left handed, there are some inconveniences (given world trying to satisfy absolute majority first), however that is about it.

Now imagine some game studio went crazy and wanted to fight for 'leftie rights' or 'be most leftie friendly company' or 'fight leftie discrimination' and committed to

- making just as many lefty characters as righty characters

- making sure those lefties are very outspoken and spit that out at you whenever you ask them or not in places relevant and irrelevant (see! I am proud of being a leftie! yawn , I dont care, can we come back to the story please)

- making sure that if there is romance , at least half of romance option MUST be explicitly left handed, when he grabs her boob it must be with left hand only (and reverse). Why? I dont know, to combat discrimination I guess

- make sure that there are characters that keep telling you that 600 years in the future in the future they still feel leftie oppression (look at me I was forced to be a rightly before while I am really a leftie but I am proud now, give me my rainbow flag!)

as gamer, I want a story, I don't care (and would not even notice) if you touch this mug with left hand , right hand, or whatever.
I will politely (and patiently) listen to character blabbering about 'leftie pride' or whatever if that fits in the story
However, I get bored and annoyed if this is shoved in my face over and over again, even when it does not belong.

Replace 'leftie' with LGBT and you get what this studio was very proud to declare they are making Andromeda to be , almost exactly. Forcing half of romance choices to be that , creating cringing characters that preach at you, spending resources after release (when many things were very broken) to go back and change the animation to add more 'leftie scenes and dialog' to ensure forced 50% "balance". really? you did not had anything else to work one and instead prioritized THIS?? where was adult supervision (publisher) in any of this?

Few big problems with approach taken
- when you pounder to very small minority (there is approximately the same percentage of lefties as gay people) and forget to actually make a game, you forgot to make a game. Neglect.
- studio heads got so swept up in the whole 'pride' thing, that they forgot to tell their employees that they are actually making a product to sell (not some political statement activism ) on someone else's dime. that includes keeping your personal beliefs personal, and sticking to work at work. It is really stupid in sales to alienate ANY of your potential customers for zero reason yet that studio chosen to employ people who went public posting very offending things (think racism ) on social media while identifying themselves as employees. Any serious company would tell person to shove it immediately and/or fire afterwards (stick to work at work, treat people professionally, and of cause dont insult your customers). Failure to supervise on behalf of management
- publisher was asleep at the wheel too. You give money to _them_? and you dont check what they are doing? and you dont control their message on your game?

immature, insulting behavior some amateur studio that never done anything like this before that was not managed or supervised by either their own management or publisher. good riddance.

Hopefully new Mass Effect is developed somewhere else and not by these guys (if they are still around) . And hopefully grown ups with basic common sense would ensure that all of the millennials facebook warriors stick to their facebook little echo chambers and that work is different from activism , and instead focus on what use to make Bioware great ->engaging story
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
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I don't even know what happens in Andromeda. I've never played a Mass Effect game. But you sure come off as quite homophobic, @simas
 
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simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
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Sir, we are talking about why Andromeda bombed at the release here and excitement level for the next Mass Effect game.
Please leave your slurs, insults, 'come offs' somewhere else (even if you agree or disagree) with anyone's opinion on the game.

and if interested in Mass Effect, I would recommend starting with Mass Effect 2 - for almost 10 year old game, it is still very good story, characters, development, and story telling.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
10,283
351
136
Sir, we are talking about why Andromeda bombed at the release here and excitement level for the next Mass Effect game.
Please leave your slurs, insults, 'come offs' somewhere else (even if you agree or disagree) with anyone's opinion on the game.

and if interested in Mass Effect, I would recommend starting with Mass Effect 2 - for almost 10 year old game, it is still very good story, characters, development, and story telling.
Dude you're the one that brought the topic up. It would have been one thing if you were simply replying to the OP, but this response just appears to confirm what I suspected.
 
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Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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Does anybody know if this is going to be the same engine with better textures, or are they moving all three games to UE4 or maybe UE5? Really hope its not just a re-texture as Mass Effect 1 controls have aged poorly. While ME3's controls were quite good. So would be nice to see quality of life updates like that in the earlier games.
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
305
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Does anybody know if this is going to be the same engine with better textures, or are they moving all three games to UE4 or maybe UE5? Really hope its not just a re-texture as Mass Effect 1 controls have aged poorly. While ME3's controls were quite good. So would be nice to see quality of life updates like that in the earlier games.
unknown at this point, along with actual release date. I never got all DLCs for Mass Effects so I would be curious on what is included and what the pricing would be. Youtube bloggers did mention the hope that controls would be enhanced for 15 years that passed since 2007 original Mass Effect..
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
5,297
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unknown at this point, along with actual release date. I never got all DLCs for Mass Effects so I would be curious on what is included and what the pricing would be. Youtube bloggers did mention the hope that controls would be enhanced for 15 years that passed since 2007 original Mass Effect..
EA did say all DLC. Which would be great considering ME2 had that terrible system for DLC. ME3's DLC was easy as it was through origin.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,039
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Will this version let you use controllers? I hated the OG PC version for leaving that out. Being it was first an xbox game that used controllers.
 

GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
2,713
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A very long post about "left handed people".
- Anything specific that you recall?

Personally, I can hardly remember a damn thing about ME: Andromeda aside from the main story beats thanks to the game being so boring and incoherent. I wasn't a huge fan of Dragon Age: Inquisition, but it had similar levels of "SJW Pandering" by virtue of minorities existing and being involved in the story but I can actually remember some of them simply based on the fact that the game as a whole was much better written.

Oddly enough, I don't remember DA:I ever getting the levels of hate ME:A did, I think because people conflated ME:A's poor quality as a product of the "SJW Agenda" as opposed to it just being a poorly made game for a host of different reasons (I remember a lot of hooplah about how they made all the characters "ugly" on purpose).

Whatever Bioware does with the next Mass Effect game, give us real tension and interpersonal conflict involving strong personalities.
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
305
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Will this version let you use controllers? I hated the OG PC version for leaving that out. Being it was first an xbox game that used controllers.
I would be surprised if they don't let you use controller given later releases (Andromeda ,etc) are very controller friendly, same with games like DAI
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
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- Anything specific that you recall?

Personally, I can hardly remember a damn thing about ME: Andromeda aside from the main story beats thanks to the game being so boring and incoherent. I wasn't a huge fan of Dragon Age: Inquisition, but it had similar levels of "SJW Pandering" by virtue of minorities existing and being involved in the story but I can actually remember some of them simply based on the fact that the game as a whole was much better written.

Oddly enough, I don't remember DA:I ever getting the levels of hate ME:A did, I think because people conflated ME:A's poor quality as a product of the "SJW Agenda" as opposed to it just being a poorly made game for a host of different reasons (I remember a lot of hooplah about how they made all the characters "ugly" on purpose).

Whatever Bioware does with the next Mass Effect game, give us real tension and interpersonal conflict involving strong personalities.
Surprisingly I liked DA:I even if a lot of people thought it was boring and repetitive, there were definitely moments in it that , in my opinion, were excellently directed and touched me. Defense of your first town before it got attacked, Leilana story act (with trip to the future ), etc. Could not get myself to finish the entire game as after a while I just lost track of what was going on. There are rumors that next Dragon Age is also 'game as a service' title which kills all interest for me.

for Andromeda, I think it got eventually better , with patches , and become an ok (not great) game.
 

ArenCordial

Senior member
Sep 18, 2012
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I'm skeptical about the value for PC players. For console players, specifically PS players that didn't have backwards compatibility this is great. For PC players though? It seems they are going for the a barebones remaster of trying to make it look a little prettier and that's it.

No revamping of ME's combat like leaked, no new endings, nothing beyond things mods can already do expect you get the lovely bonus of getting to fork over money to EA.

The fact this announcement didn't even come with screenshots only adds to my skepticism. So unless you haven't played through the trilogy there's nothing wrong with your old discs that a mod can't solve.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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Will this version let you use controllers? I hated the OG PC version for leaving that out. Being it was first an xbox game that used controllers.
It might, but honestly I think its terrible on controllers. But that goes for any shooter. Mouse is just way faster and more accurate. Which is why many console versions of games use auto aim or auto lock features.

But I think the answer to your question will come down to if the engines are updated or not.

I'm skeptical about the value for PC players. For console players, specifically PS players that didn't have backwards compatibility this is great. For PC players though? It seems they are going for the a barebones remaster of trying to make it look a little prettier and that's it.

No revamping of ME's combat like leaked, no new endings, nothing beyond things mods can already do expect you get the lovely bonus of getting to fork over money to EA.
We don't know that the controls are or are not updated for the early games, and we certainly don't know about endings. Although personally I would be disappointed if they changed actual story points. The last thing we need is another travesty like FF7 Remake.
 

GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
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Fair point, but I'd argue that FF7 is considered a masterpiece and ME3's ending is.......decidedly not.
- This is just going to be an ultimate edition basically. No one is going to go in and spend money on this thing, especially not EA.

They've got a new game in the pipe and ME fans aren't buying the DLCs, so here comes the legendary edition.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
5,297
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Fair point, but I'd argue that FF7 is considered a masterpiece and ME3's ending is.......decidedly not.
The original FF7 is amazing, the remake is an entirely different game that reuses some characters. Its just outright bad.

ME3's original ending was a bit meh. But there is nothing wrong with the redone ending, if it had that ending to start with, nobody would have complained about the game. Just like if Andromeda had not been released 6 months early, it would have reviewed far better than it did. And we would have gotten some DLC for it.
 

simas

Senior member
Oct 16, 2005
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The original FF7 is amazing, the remake is an entirely different game that reuses some characters. Its just outright bad.

ME3's original ending was a bit meh. But there is nothing wrong with the redone ending, if it had that ending to start with, nobody would have complained about the game. Just like if Andromeda had not been released 6 months early, it would have reviewed far better than it did. And we would have gotten some DLC for it.
I think you are being very generous with "meh" rating for the ME3 ending. I thought the ME3 undid everything that ME1 and ME2 were trying to set up in terms of world and message, ending wise. Thinking about it , my choices were destroy, control, or 'synergy' with synergy between synthetic and organic life being presenting as 'good choice'. what??? if merging with reapers is the good outcome why did I fight Saren in ME1 that had the same message?? why did I bother with ME2 and fighting Collectors that were just working on synergy between humans and human reaper. This made no sense to me, it is like they completely reversed the lore in third game and what was evil and wrong become 'good' outcome..
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
5,297
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I think you are being very generous with "meh" rating for the ME3 ending. I thought the ME3 undid everything that ME1 and ME2 were trying to set up in terms of world and message, ending wise. Thinking about it , my choices were destroy, control, or 'synergy' with synergy between synthetic and organic life being presenting as 'good choice'. what??? if merging with reapers is the good outcome why did I fight Saren in ME1 that had the same message?? why did I bother with ME2 and fighting Collectors that were just working on synergy between humans and human reaper. This made no sense to me, it is like they completely reversed the lore in third game and what was evil and wrong become 'good' outcome..
The way I saw it is in ME1/2, reapers were considered evil bent on destroying the galaxy because there wasn't any information to say otherwise. All they knew was there was these big machines that wanted to kill everybody.

In ME3 we learned this wasn't the case. Reapers were not evil, but they were responsible for an untold number of lives being lost each time the cycle came to an end. And that cycle would continue forever if it wasn't stopped. They also learned that the cycles were there for a reason.

So yes, the way the reapers were portrayed did change as you went through the games. But it was because with knowledge, comes understanding.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
4,632
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I still have the original games installed with all the DLCs. I think it's the best series ever made with how the games all tie in to each other, but not sure what this remaster will have. The games are recent enough that they work fine on modern PCs and still look nice enough. Andromeda was not exactly bad but bland and tedious. I actually don't remember much in it except for Jaal, who was the only interesting companion.
 
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