Martial Arts Styles - Update: Started Training

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: Cal166
I took wing chun for a year while i was in high school, great stuff i might say. Reached to blue belt.

taught by a well known sifu.

Why'd you stop?

 

[crazygal]

Aikido

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: crazygal
Aikido

*looks at name*

WTF . . a girl martial artist . . . that's rarer than a girl poster on ATOT . . ..

:Q:Q:Q

AND she posts on ATOT!

 

[crazygal]

well Aikido is easier for girls since it has little to do with strength. Although hand strength is definately a plus.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: crazygal
well Aikido is easier for girls since it has little to do with strength. Although arm strength is definately a plus.

:Q

*gathers composure*

Anyhoo, yeah, but I question its effective nature - a lot of the jointlocking styles depend on the 'victim' locking themselves out, 'i.e. tensing their muscles'. And also, you're in a situation where you've locked yourself up as well (because you're holding on to their arms/legs/whatever) while the opponent is free (sometimes - you grabbing onto their arm with both your hands, leaving one of their arms free is not a good idea) . . ..

I'm sorry. I seem to be berating a lot of the other styles out there. I'm not trying to do that, honest! But the style of Wing Chun I'm in is designed to be a softer style (it's very 'soft', actually. It's designed so technique will beat all) and is also designed against other martial artists and exploits their 'shortcomings' . . .. Basically a streetfighting style. Hella fun, by the way.

IMO, most martial arts are going to be effective against any Joe on the ground. But holding your ground against other fighters is a different story.

 

[dym]

taekwondo...
judo...
aikido...
wushu... (I extremely like this)
kendo...
and tons of "FU" related like "TO...FU" hehehe

 

[crazygal]

It's not the most effective I agree, but it has many fundamentals to teach.

 

[amcdonald]

Originally posted by: Jehovah

IAnd schools that have private lessons are a bit on the pricy side - I don't know about you, but being a college student doesn't leave me a with a lot of financial freedoms. Same thing for instructors - can you imagine a school where they teach only on a private lesson basis? How useless/wasteful is that?

Its not expensive or wasteful, its just more beneficial for the student. If the sifu can't handle the students alone, advanced students teach. At my school, for $20 a week you got a half hour private lesson, and you can train anytime you want at the school, but my teacher is not in it for money.

As for full-contact fighting, yes, only lovetaps will do more harm then good, but full-on contact is a bit severe, IMO. You don't need to know what it's like being hit with full power esp. When it's an elbow strike/knee/internal strike. I hate those.

Well it would be nice if you could get through a fight without taking a solid hit, but odds are you will not. especially if its your first fight. Its getting over the fear of getting hit that is taught. I don't mean broken bones or anything crazy, just deep bruises.

And lastly, yes, a good instructor (there's a difference between a "good fighter" and a "good instructor") can adapt the style to be better . . . but it's still within the confines of a style! I've seen great Judo players trying to get into a throw when they're obviously in a elbow/kness range . . ..

I know the difference between a fighter and an instructor, i was referring to dtyn's statement about one style not being the best style.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: crazygal
It's not the most effective I agree, but it has many fundamentals to teach.

Agreed. It has a lot of personal values that are positive.

I'm going to go on a tangent:

But is that what "real martial arts" is about? I'd disagree. If you look at the history of Japan, you'd see that a lot of "do" styles were created in the Meiji era, a transition from the "jitsu" styles. The distinction is this: The "do" styles' goal is to enlighten the practitioner, while the "jitsu" styles were meant purely for "practical" reasons. The reasons I disagree about is that in my opinion, the most basic, purest core of "martial arts" is to render physical harm to someone. Yes, self-defense is there, beauty is there, health is there, and discipline is there as well - but I'd argue that it's a side effect of rendering harm to someone and/or perfecting a way to render harm to someone.
The reason I Mentioned the Meiji Era is this: In Japan, it was a time of relative peace and prosperity, where the Samurai class were no longer needed. The transitions of styles from "jitsu" to "do" merely a coincidence? I think not. I see the same pattern here in modern times - more and more, a lot of the newer styles are turned into mere sports . . . Judo, (Olympic Style) TaeKwonDo, Shotokan Karate, Gracie Juijitsu, etc., and I'd argue a lot of their effective nature, what makes it a 'martial art', is lost.
But at the same time, I realize that, like the Meiji era, transitions are necessary for the art to survive. I hate to see it, but it's a necessary transition. I hate the fact that more and more, it's more of a hobby, a flight of fancy, like videogames and movies or music, for people. I'm glad that we don't need it in this time and age, but what's left for the style like mine to survive in the future, then? Being a romantic, I see beauty in the 'clash' of muscle versus muscle, sinew versus sinew, and the adrenaline flowing. It's primal, in all of us. But at the same time, to see that in a competition, where people bring harm to themselves for money? No thank you.

I know that there's a lot of contradictions in the stuff I say, but hey, that's how I feel. Any real poiont to that whole schpiel? None. but that's my two (three?) cents.

PS - BTW, this thread has been hijacked by yours truly. Thnak you for flying Jehovah airlines.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
Its not expensive or wasteful, its just more beneficial for the student. If the sifu can't handle the students alone, advanced students teach. At my school, for $20 a week you got a half hour private lesson, and you can train anytime you want at the school, but my teacher is not in it for money.

But you said not to join if they offer classes? From what you've said, sounds like your school had regular classes in addition to offering private lessons? And I quote:

For the love of god don't goto a school with a class or anything like that. ...train one on one, and DON'T GOTO A SCHOOL WHERE YOU DON'T SPAR.

Well it would be nice if you could get through a fight without taking a solid hit, but odds are you will not. especially if its your first fight. Its getting over the fear of getting hit that is taught. I don't mean broken bones or anything crazy, just deep bruises.

So you take full-contact elbows to the face? Howabout knees to the crotch? Have you ever been hit, that even if you 'blocked' it, it throws you back 10 feet easily (at half-strength)? (This is my Si-Fu's favorite) What about a (internal) punch that pierces your body so you're out of breath and gasping for air? A "deep bruise" is not full contact, I can assure you .

Again, I'm not trying to be a dick (it sure sounds like it as I read it myself), but misleading words and misleading advice can get people into trouble . . ..

 

[amcdonald]

My school does not have a class. The teacher teaches, while everyone who isn't in a lesson spars. Often between sessions the sifu comes and spars everyone fighting. whoever is highest ranked outside runs the show. 3,4,5 minute rounds.

As for the full-contact questions, I never said full-contact, I said getting knocked silly. In a streetfight your attacker isn't going to stop after a 'point' is delivered, and this is a misconception amongst most schools. Continuous aggresive fighting trains you to cope with an enemy who isn't 'satisfied'. There are those that train full-contact with my sifu, but I would like keep my nose in its current position. I've been knee'd in the crotch, kicked back 10 feet, dealt internal blows, and dealt 5 or 6 knock-out blows before I started falling to the ground, all of which left no external proof of injury. The bruises I'm referring to are dealt by fellow students who aren't controlled.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
My school does not have a class. The teacher teaches, while everyone who isn't in a lesson spars. Often between sessions the sifu comes and spars everyone fighting. whoever is highest ranked outside runs the show. 3,4,5 minute rounds.

As for the full-contact questions, I never said full-contact, I said getting knocked silly. In a streetfight your attacker isn't going to stop after a 'point' is delivered, and this is a misconception amongst most schools. Continuous aggresive fighting trains you to cope with an enemy who isn't 'satisfied'. There are those that train full-contact with my sifu, but I would like keep my nose in its current position. I've been knee'd in the crotch, kicked back 10 feet, dealt internal blows, and dealt 5 or 6 knock-out blows before I started falling to the ground, all of which left no external proof of injury. The bruises I'm referring to are dealt by fellow students who aren't controlled.

I'd argue that this is a class, just set up differently. Also, I'd still argue against the students giving you silly bruises. I agree with your point about continuous fighting - absolutely. But there's a reason the upperclass students and your sifu doesn't give you bruises and the new students do.

Going full contact in Wing Chun . . . that's a scary concept - I dunno. Honestly, I don't really know how your school is run and such, but at the same time, you don't know what WhiteKnight is looking for (admittedly, neither do I). I try not to do this, I really do, but the fact that your school is associated with William Cheung is, well, bothering me.

At least you're not under "Sifu" Todd Shawn Tei . . ..

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: dtyn

Originally posted by: Krassus
Look into Brazillian (Gracie) Jiu-Jitsu. It's widely regarded as the most powerful and effective style in the world.

There is no such thing as a "most powerful and effective style in the world." It doesn't exist, making claims like these only boost egos and confuse potential learners. The most powerful style is a blend of strikes, grapples, weapons, meditation, constant training, experience, and the wisdom to know how and when to employ your knowledge. No one style teaches that, therefore no one style is the most powerful. It's all how one approaches, and uses the knowledge obtained.

In the world of shoot fighting (UFC, Pride, etc.) it IS widely regarded as the most effective style.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: dtyn

Originally posted by: Krassus
Look into Brazillian (Gracie) Jiu-Jitsu. It's widely regarded as the most powerful and effective style in the world.

There is no such thing as a "most powerful and effective style in the world." It doesn't exist, making claims like these only boost egos and confuse potential learners. The most powerful style is a blend of strikes, grapples, weapons, meditation, constant training, experience, and the wisdom to know how and when to employ your knowledge. No one style teaches that, therefore no one style is the most powerful. It's all how one approaches, and uses the knowledge obtained.

In the world of shoot fighting (UFC, Pride, etc.) it IS widely regarded as the most effective style.

"In the world of shoot fighting". And it doesn't mean that they're right.

 

[Ns1]

out of curiousity, don't answer if you don't want, how much do you people spend/spent on lessons and wahtnot?

 

[Schadenfreude]

Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis
out of curiousity, don't answer if you don't want, how much do you people spend/spent on lessons and wahtnot?

I teach Kung Fu and TaeKwonDo(ITF) so I train for free.

Before that, it was a lot for a college kid . . . no booze nor going out for me (I wake up at 6am on Saturdays sometimes to train, and 8AM on Sundays)

 

[MustangSVT]

where can i learn swidish arm wripping thing?

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Jehovah

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: dtyn

Originally posted by: Krassus
Look into Brazillian (Gracie) Jiu-Jitsu. It's widely regarded as the most powerful and effective style in the world.

There is no such thing as a "most powerful and effective style in the world." It doesn't exist, making claims like these only boost egos and confuse potential learners. The most powerful style is a blend of strikes, grapples, weapons, meditation, constant training, experience, and the wisdom to know how and when to employ your knowledge. No one style teaches that, therefore no one style is the most powerful. It's all how one approaches, and uses the knowledge obtained.

In the world of shoot fighting (UFC, Pride, etc.) it IS widely regarded as the most effective style.

"In the world of shoot fighting". And it doesn't mean that they're right.

That's true, but I wouldn't try to argue with any of them .

 

[amcdonald]

Originally posted by: Jehovah

I'd argue that this is a class, just set up differently. Also, I'd still argue against the students giving you silly bruises. I agree with your point about continuous fighting - absolutely. But there's a reason the upperclass students and your sifu doesn't give you bruises and the new students do.

Going full contact in Wing Chun . . . that's a scary concept - I dunno. Honestly, I don't really know how your school is run and such, but at the same time, you don't know what WhiteKnight is looking for (admittedly, neither do I). I try not to do this, I really do, but the fact that your school is associated with William Cheung is, well, bothering me.

Well be bothered then, I don't even train anymore, so its moot.
You keep arguing minute points of my statements just to keep it going, but I'll indulge you...
It is not a class by any means. There are days of the week the sifu will not even be there. Sometimes no one higher than a blue-belt. We are more or less learning how to apply what has been taught individually and how to adapt to different fighting styles. He doesn't walk by and critique, although he might mention it in a session. I don't see the negative side of fighting someone on your level, even if they may get excited and bruise you... as long as there's no emotion involved.

The people training full-contact FIGHT full-contact in tournaments, so an elbow to the head is normal. Watch the tougher tournament fighters and they can take a blow that would knock-out most masters.

 

[Ns1]

one more question, where did you guys actually FIND a school? yellow pages? word of mouth?

 

[WhiteKnight]

Wow, this thread sure grew overnight. Anyway, thanks for all the comments guys.

As for what I hope to get out of this training... I'm not looking to meet girls (I have a gf thank you very much), I am not looking for "sport" (a la olympic taekwondo), and I am not looking for something strictly for fitness. I'm already in pretty good shape and while I expect physically rigorous training, I exercise on my own now anyway.

What I am looking for is self defense as well as development of the more "spiritual" side of the art through discipline. One of the reasons I didn't continue taekwondo in college was because I felt like the team here was too focused on it as a sport and that they neglected the inner side of things. It seemed like belt advancement went along the lines of "your forms are good, nice kicks, good break, here's your belt," with no regard for student's attitudes or mental development.

I don't care about belt advancement or anything like that. I guess it's nice, but I'm much more concerned about developing myself physically and mentally, and I don't need tangible proof, like a belt, to be satisifed.

While I would love to take private lessons, I doubt that would be possible. I certainly can't afford to be shelling out big bucks for private instruction time, and I don't think that most of the groups here would have that anyway. Most of them are pretty small, so I expect that there would be a good degree of one-on-one interaction anyway.

 

[Ns1]

bumpity bump

 

[pipster]

Originally posted by: WhiteKnight
Wow, this thread sure grew overnight. Anyway, thanks for all the comments guys.

As for what I hope to get out of this training... I'm not looking to meet girls (I have a gf thank you very much), I am not looking for "sport" (a la olympic taekwondo), and I am not looking for something strictly for fitness. I'm already in pretty good shape and while I expect physically rigorous training, I exercise on my own now anyway.

What I am looking for is self defense as well as development of the more "spiritual" side of the art through discipline. One of the reasons I didn't continue taekwondo in college was because I felt like the team here was too focused on it as a sport and that they neglected the inner side of things. It seemed like belt advancement went along the lines of "your forms are good, nice kicks, good break, here's your belt," with no regard for student's attitudes or mental development.

I don't care about belt advancement or anything like that. I guess it's nice, but I'm much more concerned about developing myself physically and mentally, and I don't need tangible proof, like a belt, to be satisifed.

While I would love to take private lessons, I doubt that would be possible. I certainly can't afford to be shelling out big bucks for private instruction time, and I don't think that most of the groups here would have that anyway. Most of them are pretty small, so I expect that there would be a good degree of one-on-one interaction anyway.

In that case, be SURE not to disregard the "soft" arts as well.

 

[WhiteKnight]

TTT

 

[WhiteKnight]

Well I went to the Soo Bahk Do demonstration last night and to be honest, it seemed a lot like Taekwondo. They had a Grand Master visiting, so that was pretty cool. The demonstration was running late and I couldn't stay until the end, so unfortunately I didn't have a chance to speak with anyone.