Married couples who purposely don't want to have children

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Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,015
1
0
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: kranky
I wonder why they feel they have to justify their decision by saying they don't want the nagging or distractions or spend any money? They went on TV to talk about it?


I'll tell you why: its the husband's way of convincing the wife that this dumb scheme is legit. Show her, "See, there are other easily manipulated women like you who actually buy this shit, honey". And I don't mean "dumb" as in everyone should have kids, I mean "dumb" in that who the hell cares about your family decisions? You don't really need a fvcking "lifestyle support group" to skip having kids.

You don't want kids? Then don't have them...but when you go on TV to show the world how "trendy" you are, it just makes it seem like you're just trying to convince YOURSELF.


The same could be said for the tons and tons and tons of parents blathering on in various magazines and TV shows.

Yeah, well I'm not a fan of that either.
 

hpkeeper

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
4,036
0
0
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: hpkeeper
My contribution to social security in years to come thanks these child free people..


<--- 21 year old that will be working the rest of his life due to baby boomer retirement.

Well Guess what ? there's an whole lot of baby boomer parents who will also be working till the day they drop dead just to pay off the massive funding needed to put Gen X kiddies thru grad school.

Baby boomers-the generation who's children don't leave home till age 26 !


if that's the case it seems like the parents should have enough gaul to kick the kids out of the house... they're only legally obligated to take care of them until age 18. Their bringing that problem on themselves.

and financial aid is a wonderfull thing.

 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
46
91
Originally posted by: MAME
Originally posted by: NFS4
Here's something I have to wonder. For married couples who DON'T want to have children and are COMPLETELY opposed to children, what about birth control? Surely, you guys are having sex. Unless you've got your tubes tied or the little "snip snip", I don't think that any birth control is 100%.

So what happens if you get pregnant? Abortion? Or do you have the baby?

abort it
have more sex
profit

:confused:
 

sandmanwake

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2000
1,494
0
0
To those who are saying that those who don't want to have children are selfish and irresponsible, can you give me one unselfish reason why you or anyone would choose to have a child? I think the number of people who have a child for purely unselfish reasons are fewer than those who choose to not have a child for unselfish reasons. I'm not saying that an individual's choice to have a child or not is bad, but lets not kid ourselves and think that those who choose to have a child is in any way superior to those who choose not to. I'm not saying all the pro-children people are think this, but there are quite a few.

Let's list what I've heard/seen from people so far as reasons for wanting children and analyze them a bit:

1. Who will take care of you in when you're old?--Selfish, children as insurance. Some parents even take this to the extreme and expect service and money when they're older, basically reminding their children all the time that they owe their lives to the parent, therefore they have an obligation to help them out in their old age. Sorry, but it was the parent's choice to reproduce, if they chose not to, then the children wouldn't be around to care one way or the other.
2. You have this primal urge to reproduce.--Selfish also; you just want to satisfy an urge.
3. You want someone to love.--A life is a big responsibility, especially human ones because unlike pets, you can't just eat them once you get tired of them or find it's too much of a hassel. Some people recognize this and are able to be good parents. Some people recognize this and still turn out to be bad parents. If you really have a true unselfish desire to love some child, then adopt--why must it be your own dna? If you insist on the child having your dna given the choice, then there's some selfish motive involved.
4. You have a obligation to society. --Sorry, but I have no obligation to society beyond participating in a manner that is productive for both myself and that which I interact with. I can contribute to society without having a child. This is a poor excuse and probably one of the worse reasons to have a child, though not the worse. Thinking your dna can in some manner benefit society so much that it just can't survive without it is an arrogant mentality. If you have a child for this reason, you're doing so to satisfy your selfish ego.
5. Not reproducing is irresponsible and you're not experiencing life.--Merely having a child just to fit someone elses definition of being a responsible person is extremely irresponsible. You experience life just by living it. Sorry if this life I'm living doesn't make you happy, but it's my life and I have no responsiblity towards you. Recognize that you will be responsible for a life and respect that someone who recognize that they are not willing or able to take on this responsibility and chooses not to reproduce is making a responsible decision.
6. It's one of the reasons to get married.--This is just idiotic. Never mind that I think marriage is an outdated institution, but if two people choose to formally have the fact that they'd like to spend the rest of their lives together, children should not come into the equation if both parties don't want any. It's not going to make their marriage any less of a marriage. If your marriage or relationship is so lacking that you think a child will fill some void or make it better somehow, don't be surprised when it doesn't work. I've seen parents who use their kids as weapons against their spouse and/or "stay together for the sake of the kids." How is having kids a good thing in those sort of situation?
7. You want the bonds of a family.--Selfish. You want to feel loved basically. Some people are willing to put forth the effort to give love in order to receive it, but if you're not willing to do this or don't think you can, then it's best to not reproduce. I think people who can recognize whether or not they would be able to give love in order to receive it and make a conscious decision on whether or not to have that child is a better person than someone who just expect it to magically happen when the child comes along. The mentality, "well it just takes some work, but it's possible for everyone" is incorrect. Not everyone can be a good parent. Notice I said good parent and not just parent.

Now after writing all that I can't remember the point I was going to make since it's so late, so I guess I'll just go to bed.
 

Nightfall

Golden Member
Nov 16, 1999
1,769
0
0
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: kranky
I wonder why they feel they have to justify their decision by saying they don't want the nagging or distractions or spend any money? They went on TV to talk about it?


I'll tell you why: its the husband's way of convincing the wife that this dumb scheme is legit. Show her, "See, there are other easily manipulated women like you who actually buy this shit, honey". And I don't mean "dumb" as in everyone should have kids, I mean "dumb" in that who the hell cares about your family decisions? You don't really need a fvcking "lifestyle support group" to skip having kids.

You don't want kids? Then don't have them...but when you go on TV to show the world how "trendy" you are, it just makes it seem like you're just trying to convince YOURSELF.
I hear the same crap about having kids. Therefore, if you go on TV to show the world just how rightous you are about having kids, it just seems like you're trying to convince yourself.

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Howard
And where did you get this idea that people should have children?
"go forth and multiply"
for one thing

and also it's the reason behind sex feeling so damn good in the first place.
So, women past menopause and men who are sterile should never get married?
 

Nightfall

Golden Member
Nov 16, 1999
1,769
0
0
Originally posted by: sandmanwake
To those who are saying that those who don't want to have children are selfish and irresponsible, can you give me one unselfish reason why you or anyone would choose to have a child? I think the number of people who have a child for purely unselfish reasons are fewer than those who choose to not have a child for unselfish reasons. I'm not saying that an individual's choice to have a child or not is bad, but lets not kid ourselves and think that those who choose to have a child is in any way superior to those who choose not to. I'm not saying all the pro-children people are think this, but there are quite a few.

Let's list what I've heard/seen from people so far as reasons for wanting children and analyze them a bit:

1. Who will take care of you in when you're old?--Selfish, children as insurance. Some parents even take this to the extreme and expect service and money when they're older, basically reminding their children all the time that they owe their lives to the parent, therefore they have an obligation to help them out in their old age. Sorry, but it was the parent's choice to reproduce, if they chose not to, then the children wouldn't be around to care one way or the other.
2. You have this primal urge to reproduce.--Selfish also; you just want to satisfy an urge.
3. You want someone to love.--A life is a big responsibility, especially human ones because unlike pets, you can't just eat them once you get tired of them or find it's too much of a hassel. Some people recognize this and are able to be good parents. Some people recognize this and still turn out to be bad parents. If you really have a true unselfish desire to love some child, then adopt--why must it be your own dna? If you insist on the child having your dna given the choice, then there's some selfish motive involved.
4. You have a obligation to society. --Sorry, but I have no obligation to society beyond participating in a manner that is productive for both myself and that which I interact with. I can contribute to society without having a child. This is a poor excuse and probably one of the worse reasons to have a child, though not the worse. Thinking your dna can in some manner benefit society so much that it just can't survive without it is an arrogant mentality. If you have a child for this reason, you're doing so to satisfy your selfish ego.
5. Not reproducing is irresponsible and you're not experiencing life.--Merely having a child just to fit someone elses definition of being a responsible person is extremely irresponsible. You experience life just by living it. Sorry if this life I'm living doesn't make you happy, but it's my life and I have no responsiblity towards you. Recognize that you will be responsible for a life and respect that someone who recognize that they are not willing or able to take on this responsibility and chooses not to reproduce is making a responsible decision.
6. It's one of the reasons to get married.--This is just idiotic. Never mind that I think marriage is an outdated institution, but if two people choose to formally have the fact that they'd like to spend the rest of their lives together, children should not come into the equation if both parties don't want any. It's not going to make their marriage any less of a marriage. If your marriage or relationship is so lacking that you think a child will fill some void or make it better somehow, don't be surprised when it doesn't work. I've seen parents who use their kids as weapons against their spouse and/or "stay together for the sake of the kids." How is having kids a good thing in those sort of situation?
7. You want the bonds of a family.--Selfish. You want to feel loved basically. Some people are willing to put forth the effort to give love in order to receive it, but if you're not willing to do this or don't think you can, then it's best to not reproduce. I think people who can recognize whether or not they would be able to give love in order to receive it and make a conscious decision on whether or not to have that child is a better person than someone who just expect it to magically happen when the child comes along. The mentality, "well it just takes some work, but it's possible for everyone" is incorrect. Not everyone can be a good parent. Notice I said good parent and not just parent.

Now after writing all that I can't remember the point I was going to make since it's so late, so I guess I'll just go to bed.

I think the point you are trying to make is the fact that all the reasons to have kids really aren't valid ones at all to everyone. There are people out there that look at the reasons why other people have kids and just wonder why they had them in the first place. It all comes down to personal preference and there is no right and wrong answer here. The thing that irritates me are the people who give any of the reasons like you showed above as reasons to procreate. Since they aren't valid towards everyone, why make statements like that? It is about as bad as me flaunting my personal freedom to people who have kids and saying, "I bet you wish you hadn't done it now eh?".

It really serves no purpose other than to get someone else upset.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,908
2,141
126
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: RossMAN
I'm curious what are your ages Lola and NFS4?

25 (damnit, am I really that old?:()

I thought you were older :) I'm 34 and have two children. People's views about kids change in their late 20's/early 30's when their lives settle down a bit.
 

oog

Golden Member
Feb 14, 2002
1,721
0
0
Originally posted by: Anubis
you couldn't care less not you could care less

i've always thought that both are fine. the second is meant to be said in a sarcastic tone. you can get a hint that the tone is different between the two because the first usually has the emphasis on "couldn't" whereas the second has the emphasis on "care".

stephen pinker had a discussion about the phrase in "the language instinct" and it's discussed a little bit here: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm
 

sandmanwake

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2000
1,494
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Nebor
Kids are for suckers. :p
Actually, suckers have pretty much a 0% chance of getting pregnant. :p

Not quite true: Text

Copied text:
CHICAGO (AP) - An appeals court said a man can press a claim for emotional distress after learning a former lover had used his sperm to have a baby. But he can't claim theft, the ruling said, because the sperm were hers to keep.

The ruling Wednesday by the Illinois Appellate Court sends Dr. Richard O. Phillips' distress case back to trial court.

Phillips accuses Dr. Sharon Irons of a "calculated, profound personal betrayal" after their affair six years ago, saying she secretly kept semen after they had oral sex, then used it to get pregnant.

He said he didn't find out about the child for nearly two years, when Irons filed a paternity lawsuit. DNA tests confirmed Phillips was the father, the court papers state.

Phillips was ordered to pay about $800 a month in child support, said Irons' attorney, Enrico Mirabelli.

Phillips sued Irons, claiming he has had trouble sleeping and eating and has been haunted by "feelings of being trapped in a nightmare," court papers state.

Irons responded that her alleged actions weren't "truly extreme and outrageous" and that Phillips' pain wasn't bad enough to merit a lawsuit. The circuit court agreed and dismissed Phillips' lawsuit in 2003.

But the higher court ruled that, if Phillips' story is true, Irons "deceitfully engaged in sexual acts, which no reasonable person would expect could result in pregnancy, to use plaintiff's sperm in an unorthodox, unanticipated manner yielding extreme consequences."

The judges backed the lower court decision to dismiss the fraud and theft claims, agreeing with Irons that she didn't steal the sperm.

"She asserts that when plaintiff 'delivered' his sperm, it was a gift - an absolute and irrevocable transfer of title to property from a donor to a donee," the decision said. "There was no agreement that the original deposit would be returned upon request."

Phillips is representing himself in the case. He could not be reached for comment Thursday.

"There's a 5-year-old child here," Mirabelli said. "Imagine how a child feels when your father says he feels emotionally damaged by your birth."
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
I see no reason to marry without children. It is the reason and purpose for marriage.

I have a couple friends who married with no desire to have children. Now the chics clock is ticking and she changed her mind. The dudes are in a world of hurt.
 

Nightfall

Golden Member
Nov 16, 1999
1,769
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
I see no reason to marry without children. It is the reason and purpose for marriage.

I have a couple friends who married with no desire to have children. Now the chics clock is ticking and she changed her mind. The dudes are in a world of hurt.

Once again, you will see plenty of financial benefits to be married. You might want to do your research before you make such a foolish statement. To say kids are the "reason and purpose" for marriage is not an accurate statement.
 

RKS

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,824
3
81
Originally posted by: Nightfall
Originally posted by: spidey07
I see no reason to marry without children. It is the reason and purpose for marriage.

I have a couple friends who married with no desire to have children. Now the chics clock is ticking and she changed her mind. The dudes are in a world of hurt.

Once again, you will see plenty of financial benefits to be married. You might want to do your research before you make such a foolish statement. To say kids are the "reason and purpose" for marriage is not an accurate statement.

are you married, do you have or considered having children?

maybe if you are filing married and your specific financial situation allows for a better tax return then you might have a finacial benefit but I can't think of any other one.

If I didn't want kids I probably wouldn't have gotten married. Kids may not be the only reason to get married but they damn should be near the top of the list.

I personally don't understand those that marry but don't want children eventually.
 

Nightfall

Golden Member
Nov 16, 1999
1,769
0
0
Originally posted by: RKS
Originally posted by: Nightfall
Originally posted by: spidey07
I see no reason to marry without children. It is the reason and purpose for marriage.

I have a couple friends who married with no desire to have children. Now the chics clock is ticking and she changed her mind. The dudes are in a world of hurt.

Once again, you will see plenty of financial benefits to be married. You might want to do your research before you make such a foolish statement. To say kids are the "reason and purpose" for marriage is not an accurate statement.

are you married, do you have or considered having children?

maybe if you are filing married and your specific financial situation allows for a better tax return then you might have a finacial benefit but I can't think of any other one.

If I didn't want kids I probably wouldn't have gotten married. Kids may not be the only reason to get married but they damn should be near the top of the list.

I personally don't understand those that marry but don't want children eventually.

Yes, married. Have we considered it? Yes, and we continue to communicate about it, but right now the answer is a solid no. We enjoy our freedom and our lives right now.

Financially, that is just one aspect. What about insurance? My wife and I share a great insurance plan as well.

Once again, your reason for getting married is as valid is mine. Just because someone doesn't want or can't have kids doesn't mean marriage isn't an option.
 

wyvrn

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
10,074
0
0
I used to think a life without burdens (kids, marriage, etc..) would be ideal. Think about it, you can just work at whatever you want, and use your free time to travel or take up hobbies. But then I got married and had a little girl, and now would never consider giving those 'burdens' up. They are the best things to ever happen to me. In fact, watching my daughter learn and grow gives my entire life a higher purpose.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
I personally have no plans on having kids ever. I'm just not the type of personality that'd be a good father.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
12,963
1
0
Originally posted by: RKS
I personally don't understand those that marry but don't want children eventually.
Fair enough, though I don't understand those who want kids or who think they're the only or even a big reason to get married. Granted, if most felt this way our species probably wouldn't be doing too well, but try to be a little more tolerant. Those spewing vitriol at those who don't want to procreate come off as nothing more than jealous of our situation.
 

Schrodinger

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2004
1,274
0
0
If I didn't want kids I probably wouldn't have gotten married. Kids may not be the only reason to get married but they damn should be near the top of the list.

I personally don't understand those that marry but don't want children eventually.

Marriage is (or should be) about one thing and one thing only--you love the person you are with and want to spend eternity with them and show it through commitment.

To say that children are part of the reason to get married is exactly what is wrong with marriage today and why there is such a high divorce rate.

Go into marriage just to spend time with and commit to one another. If children are eventually a byproduct of your love then that is great. But children should never be essential to a marriage or your love. There is no love in that case and you have been living a lie.