49erinnc If you keep going with this you are going to come out of it more damged than you have to be. It isn't worth it IMO. Fvck her. End it and go find something to fill the hole. Hopefully something constructive like a Porsche. Just be glad there aren't kids involved (I didn't read everything but I hope not).
I've been for over a year. It's hell to have someone intervene in your personal life. Little behaviors can be teased out and isolated and labeled as a bunch of crap.
Christian counselors seldom recommend divorce. Heck, even secular counselors want to keep seeing you so they will generally let you make a call about seperating.
You should know that 80% of married couples that physically seperate will divorce. Also, 2/3 or all divorces are filed by WOMEN. Finally, if you haven't investigated the divorce laws in your state, it's time to do so. Not only has your SO already seen a counselor, she's prolly seen an attorney too.
If you have kids it will be tough...counseling or the divorce. If you have no kids that it can be rather painless.
I've got lots of experience in this area. Feel free to PM me.
Gravity
Christian counselors seldom recommend divorce. Heck, even secular counselors want to keep seeing you so they will generally let you make a call about seperating.
You should know that 80% of married couples that physically seperate will divorce. Also, 2/3 or all divorces are filed by WOMEN. Finally, if you haven't investigated the divorce laws in your state, it's time to do so. Not only has your SO already seen a counselor, she's prolly seen an attorney too.
If you have kids it will be tough...counseling or the divorce. If you have no kids that it can be rather painless.
I've got lots of experience in this area. Feel free to PM me.
Gravity
No kids (thankfully), though we were trying several months back. And as of now, there just isn't any element of resentment or anger on my end. It may develope if this continues but for right now, my number one priority is to save this marriage. I don't hate her for handling things the way she is handling them. I'm greatly upset by it but if I want to keep my wife, then I have to do what I can to achieve that. I'm sure that if this drags out along the lines that it is now, that I will become mad and start to carry a grudge. I'm just hoping that counseling or our time apart will heal things before it gets to that point.
Thanks for your candidness Shilala. While I can't take on the "Go F yourself" mentality yet, your comments carry some truth. I don't doubt that I'm the root of all of her problems right now, in her mind. Whatever though...if she needs to use me as an outlet for all of her problems and not just our own, then hopefully that's something the counselor can address. One thing is for sure, it's not going to be sorted out in one visit. A lot of damage has been done so I expect a long process if we're to work things out.
I'm just so emotionally drained right now. Very little sleep, very little eating and tons of stress. Guess I'm going to go crawl in the bed with the dogs and hopefully find some escape from all of this with sleep. But as I did today, I'm sure I'll wake up tomorrow morning briefly thinking this has all been a terrible dream. G'night guys/gals...thanks again...even for the worst case scenario stuff. Good to hear all opinions, regardless of the optimism, pessimism or apathy.
Thanks for your candidness Shilala. While I can't take on the "Go F yourself" mentality yet, your comments carry some truth. I don't doubt that I'm the root of all of her problems right now, in her mind. Whatever though...if she needs to use me as an outlet for all of her problems and not just our own, then hopefully that's something the counselor can address. One thing is for sure, it's not going to be sorted out in one visit. A lot of damage has been done so I expect a long process if we're to work things out.
I'm just so emotionally drained right now. Very little sleep, very little eating and tons of stress. Guess I'm going to go crawl in the bed with the dogs and hopefully find some escape from all of this with sleep. But as I did today, I'm sure I'll wake up tomorrow morning briefly thinking this has all been a terrible dream. G'night guys/gals...thanks again...even for the worst case scenario stuff. Good to hear all opinions, regardless of the optimism, pessimism or apathy.
well you certainly sound mature and about as level headed as you can be.
Take care of yourself dude and remember to - eat, sleep, exercise.
I lost 35 pounds with mine in 2 months.
Don't tempt me....just kidding. Listen, there are two people in relationships. You didn't listen to her. Does that make you the bad guy? What behaviors did she display that mayde you seek silence apart from her?
I've read about 2 dozen books about marriage. ONe that might help you is "divorce busters". That one helped us a good bit. Also, the passionate marriage" by david Schnarch is a MUST read. It talks about integrating marital and sex therapy in ways that have you focusing on what's happening now vs. what happened to you as a child. Traditional counseling will lead you to examine WHY you are not how you might change. That really forces counseling to get stretched out and doesn't address the real issues.
Originally posted by: shilala
Sure.
They'll gang up on you, tell you what an asshole you are, explain to you that all you've done is invalid, explain that all the hard work you've put in the relationship was misdirected, and basically slap you in the head with a big fat dick.
The goal will be to show that there's two sides to the relationship. Your side and a fvcked up side.
Odds are that you'll hear things that sound completely disrespectful, and your deepest feelings will be stomped on.
Keep your mouth shut, take it in, and try not to react. If you're open minded enough, sooner or later they'll explain what it is that they're talking about.
At that point you'll be able to go think it through.
You may not end up liking it but you'll have to find a way to accept it.
It's not all that fun, but it's very helpful. You may very well find that the huge problems are easily fixed.
I have to respectfully disagree with this strategy!!! Learn all you can about the counseling process. This is a feminization process that will have you castrating yourself to stay in the marriage. Try the audio book "the proper care and feeding of husbands" by Dr Laura and see if you get a different perspective on how wives might treat their husbands.
This process is prolly not suited to help you. If you learn the process, you can make it work FOR you. There are undoubtably things in your marriage that YOU may be wanting but not getting. Typically the husbands wants more respect and or SEX, the woman wants more attention, securing and acts of caring. Where is the balance? I don't know for you two but it's prolly not balanced.
Unless your wife has given you everything you ever wanted and you didn't listen to her, that would be criminal...I have a suspicion that it's more mutual than one sided.
Learn about the process and gain your voice. Pull up your nuts and speak about your own feelings in these sessions. Try not to say damaging, hurtful things because they will come back to haunt you..sometimes when you want sex or some other concession that should be a given in marriage.
Originally posted by: 49erinnc
Originally posted by: shilala
Sure.
They'll gang up on you, tell you what an asshole you are, explain to you that all you've done is invalid, explain that all the hard work you've put in the relationship was misdirected, and basically slap you in the head with a big fat dick.
The goal will be to show that there's two sides to the relationship. Your side and a fvcked up side.
Odds are that you'll hear things that sound completely disrespectful, and your deepest feelings will be stomped on.
Keep your mouth shut, take it in, and try not to react. If you're open minded enough, sooner or later they'll explain what it is that they're talking about.
At that point you'll be able to go think it through.
You may not end up liking it but you'll have to find a way to accept it.
It's not all that fun, but it's very helpful. You may very well find that the huge problems are easily fixed.
Great...sounds like it's going to be a blast. And I'm a very defensive person by nature so I'm guessing this is going to be really trying for me. With her having already gone a few times and still thinking about leaving, I feel like I just want to go into a room with the counselor and say "Look, you've obviously spoken to my wife about all of this and you know where she stands. Let's cut to the chase: Is it over or do I still have a chance of salvaging my marriage by being here?
That a bad idea or should I just sit there and take whatever she (counselor is a she) throws at me?
Dont' be passive. Also, that's not a good question to ask a counselor. The will give you a daur look and say "I'm not sure it can be saved...there's been a lot of damage....blah, blah" They aren't there to assure you of anything.
MidasKnight
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2004
- 3,288
- 0
- 76
The fact that your wife went to counseling and now needs you to be there is a positive sign in my view. Troubled times in a marriage ( in most cases ) are opportunities to learn and grow together. It can make a marriage stronger if both work together to learn from the issue(s). Good luck to you.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 25,765
- 4,293
- 126
49erinnc,
I don't have any advice for you or really anything to help you along. But I would like to say that you certainly are not the only one here right now with the exact same problems. I've had a few posts here with those exact same concerns. Heck, it is probably time for me to update them.
I bet 98% of the words you have said in this thread have come out of my mouth in this last year. I've been a caring, loving, husband. I've provided everything most women seem to want: money, attention, housework, take her our, buy her gifts, get along with family, try to kiss her goodbye all the time, etc. Yet she has pulled away. It is to the point where she moved out for a couple of days last weekend and we have barely seen each other for God knows how long.
I'm not a good communicator either. But we always get along and have lots of little things to laugh about. I'm slowly realizing that we just can't argue properly. Too much holding stuff back. We swallow the harmful things and never let the other one know. Then they keep repeating the behavior (since they don't know it bother us). So it just repeats: more anger, more holding back, more bad behavior, more anger, more holding back, more bad behavior..
I've been looking for a counselor since Friday. I don't have much hope, but maybe, just maybe we can pull through.
I hope the same for you.
I don't have any advice for you or really anything to help you along. But I would like to say that you certainly are not the only one here right now with the exact same problems. I've had a few posts here with those exact same concerns. Heck, it is probably time for me to update them.
I bet 98% of the words you have said in this thread have come out of my mouth in this last year. I've been a caring, loving, husband. I've provided everything most women seem to want: money, attention, housework, take her our, buy her gifts, get along with family, try to kiss her goodbye all the time, etc. Yet she has pulled away. It is to the point where she moved out for a couple of days last weekend and we have barely seen each other for God knows how long.
I'm not a good communicator either. But we always get along and have lots of little things to laugh about. I'm slowly realizing that we just can't argue properly. Too much holding stuff back. We swallow the harmful things and never let the other one know. Then they keep repeating the behavior (since they don't know it bother us). So it just repeats: more anger, more holding back, more bad behavior, more anger, more holding back, more bad behavior..
I've been looking for a counselor since Friday. I don't have much hope, but maybe, just maybe we can pull through.
I hope the same for you.
Looking back on my failed marriage I learned that it's much easier to maintain the relationship than it is to repair it.
Sometimes I wonder if long term relationships are so difficult to keep because they aren't natural.
Are we just fighting the inevitable when we struggle through the pain of a failing marriage?
Do we really want to spend our lives bound to what is nothing more than an ideal, a tradition?
If we really wanted these relationships why do we let them go to heck?
If we treated our wives with the same reverence that we treat our (insert your favorite "toy" here) we wouldn't be talking about this I believe.
Sometimes I wonder if long term relationships are so difficult to keep because they aren't natural.
Are we just fighting the inevitable when we struggle through the pain of a failing marriage?
Do we really want to spend our lives bound to what is nothing more than an ideal, a tradition?
If we really wanted these relationships why do we let them go to heck?
If we treated our wives with the same reverence that we treat our (insert your favorite "toy" here) we wouldn't be talking about this I believe.
The last two posts are compelling. I too have been in counseling with my wife for 1.5 years. I have read many books and feel like I have a good understanding of counseling.
My thoughts:
Feminism has bastardized marital roles and confused men and women as to what they should be/do in a marriage. This is disastrous and apparent only in the last 40 years.
Lifespan has increased dramatically in the last century. Prior to the last 100 years it might have been much easier to be married because you didn't expect to live that long. Seeing your grandkids was a blessing few enjoyed. Now that we consistently live longer, marital strife takes a heavier toll and lasts for years.
As a Christian I can complain that biblical roles of marriage are not considered even when in Christian counseling. The part in 1Cor 7 that talks about not withholding sex is ignored as are the verses that speak to women about their roles in marriage; Eph 5:33 and Titus 2.
All marriages struggle and few are very good. I have been knowledgeable of several marriages, some Christian, some not and they all struggle severly at the 12-15 year mark. Some don't emerge from the struggle with strong relations, they seem to limp along without resolving the issues.
I think divorce is evil if you have kids but having said that, I'm struggling to stay married despite my children.
I have done some things to make my situation better but I haven't solved the problem. Here's what I've done:
Worked with a counselor on my own issues regarding family of origin. That helped me personally grow beyond some long standing barriers.
Joined a support group for a while when things were very, very tough. I chose al-anon and it was very supportive.
I developed 4 strong relationships with other men that could hear my struggles as well as my character flaws (sins if you will) and have grown stronger from being "known."
I've been frank about my needs in marriage and tried not to retaliate when they weren't met.
I got over the marriage, understanding that it might not work and that it might end or be ended by my wife. Being able to let it go gives you a new perspective and actually makes you attractive (divorce busters principle)
I've worked to develop seperate activities for my own personal growth that takes place outside the home. This also is personal development and creates some fun and joy outside the marriage. I cycle regularly and go to a wine cellar to smoke a cigar once per month.
That's all I can think of that's significant. My marriage may STILL not work but I'm doing what I can and that's all I can do. Wifey has to make some decisions on her own. Marriage is not a cage and either party may leave at any time. Those are the facts.
If you struggle with marriage and want to chat, pm me any time. I'm happy to share what I've learned and the struggles I've had along the way.
Best,
Gravity
My thoughts:
Feminism has bastardized marital roles and confused men and women as to what they should be/do in a marriage. This is disastrous and apparent only in the last 40 years.
Lifespan has increased dramatically in the last century. Prior to the last 100 years it might have been much easier to be married because you didn't expect to live that long. Seeing your grandkids was a blessing few enjoyed. Now that we consistently live longer, marital strife takes a heavier toll and lasts for years.
As a Christian I can complain that biblical roles of marriage are not considered even when in Christian counseling. The part in 1Cor 7 that talks about not withholding sex is ignored as are the verses that speak to women about their roles in marriage; Eph 5:33 and Titus 2.
All marriages struggle and few are very good. I have been knowledgeable of several marriages, some Christian, some not and they all struggle severly at the 12-15 year mark. Some don't emerge from the struggle with strong relations, they seem to limp along without resolving the issues.
I think divorce is evil if you have kids but having said that, I'm struggling to stay married despite my children.
I have done some things to make my situation better but I haven't solved the problem. Here's what I've done:
Worked with a counselor on my own issues regarding family of origin. That helped me personally grow beyond some long standing barriers.
Joined a support group for a while when things were very, very tough. I chose al-anon and it was very supportive.
I developed 4 strong relationships with other men that could hear my struggles as well as my character flaws (sins if you will) and have grown stronger from being "known."
I've been frank about my needs in marriage and tried not to retaliate when they weren't met.
I got over the marriage, understanding that it might not work and that it might end or be ended by my wife. Being able to let it go gives you a new perspective and actually makes you attractive (divorce busters principle)
I've worked to develop seperate activities for my own personal growth that takes place outside the home. This also is personal development and creates some fun and joy outside the marriage. I cycle regularly and go to a wine cellar to smoke a cigar once per month.
That's all I can think of that's significant. My marriage may STILL not work but I'm doing what I can and that's all I can do. Wifey has to make some decisions on her own. Marriage is not a cage and either party may leave at any time. Those are the facts.
If you struggle with marriage and want to chat, pm me any time. I'm happy to share what I've learned and the struggles I've had along the way.
Best,
Gravity
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,296
- 16
- 81
Wow, tough situation.. My only advice would be to understand that counselors are not the be-all and end-all of themselves, but rather just people who are there to listen to both points of view (I won't say "sides" because that automatically implies an adversarial situation) and to facilitate communication between the two of you. There are a lot of good comments in this thread, and I hope that you find a way through all of this, a way that works out well for both you and your wife.
Remind yourself and your wife that marriage is a life-long commitment.
"For better and for worse until death do us part"
Your wife is unhappy, so your job and your wifes job is to work out the issues that are causing trouble until you are both happy.
I wish you the best of luck.
"For better and for worse until death do us part"
Your wife is unhappy, so your job and your wifes job is to work out the issues that are causing trouble until you are both happy.
I wish you the best of luck.
I've been.
In the counseling sessions, be totally honest with your wife, because your wife will see that & respect it.
On the other hand, be aware that the field of marriage counselors is full of people who took a few university courses, did "X" hours of counseling audit, & got certificated. It doesn't mean they have any wisdom, & some are absolute idiots.
2 cases in point: 1) I have a friend who's sister the marriage counselor says she NEVER tries to get couples to work together, she ALWAYS tries to get the couple to amicably divorce. What a bitch!
2) I have a "relative" through marriage who is a family & marriage counselor. She has NEVER ONCE had any romantic relationship in her own life...never a boy friend, no kids, nada. She's sort of a hermaphrodite. But she's out there advising men & women on the intricacies of their intimate relationships. That's so totally wrong it's obscene.
So LOOK OUT official impressive counseling credentials don't mean shit.
In the counseling sessions, be totally honest with your wife, because your wife will see that & respect it.
On the other hand, be aware that the field of marriage counselors is full of people who took a few university courses, did "X" hours of counseling audit, & got certificated. It doesn't mean they have any wisdom, & some are absolute idiots.
2 cases in point: 1) I have a friend who's sister the marriage counselor says she NEVER tries to get couples to work together, she ALWAYS tries to get the couple to amicably divorce. What a bitch!
2) I have a "relative" through marriage who is a family & marriage counselor. She has NEVER ONCE had any romantic relationship in her own life...never a boy friend, no kids, nada. She's sort of a hermaphrodite. But she's out there advising men & women on the intricacies of their intimate relationships. That's so totally wrong it's obscene.
So LOOK OUT official impressive counseling credentials don't mean shit.
49erinnc, I generally don't post anything personal here...but after reading your posts (and this entire thread), I'm going to make an exception.
Your posts could have been mine a little over a year ago -- exactly. I mean EXACTLY. I'm 33 y/o (ex-wife is 28 now). We'd been together for 7 years (married for just under three when it all started.)
I'll just summarize what's happened in the last year.
- Wife, out of the blue, is unhappy with ME (it's all my fault) Friday, March 26, 2004 and gives me a freaking list of all my faults (controlling, too frugal, poor communication, "down" - my brother died the year prior (Thanksgiving day) and my sister shot herself in February). I was devastated and totally unprepared. I may not have been super happy all the time, but I was happy with my wife, our marriage, and my job. We had just bought our dream home (Jul '03). I think, understandably, I wasn't myself and trying to deal with some major issues and grief.
- Saturday, the next day, she needs "space" and time out with the girls...oh, and she wants a divorce. No talking, no discussion, no counseling, it was OVER. I go to u-haul and buy boxes and start packing.
- Sunday morning (early) she comes home. Unable to sleep, I pack all night long and when she gets home, I tell her I don't want a divorce, I'll do anything - counseling, whatever it takes. She agrees.
- Wednesday, she changes her mind. Divorce is back on. No talking, etc.
Less than a month later, I'm out of the house and moved back to FL (from UT). Here's where it gets good.
She had met someone else (she claims that Saturday night - yeah right), he was calling her at work that week. She was cheating, and had cheating before but I didn't know. I had been considering reconciling, but with that news, I push for the divorce.
July 30th 2004 (1 year and 15 days after buying the house) the house is sold. August the divorce is final. Guess what?
The grass wasn't greener. She wishes she could undo everything. Admits to lying about me to her friends and family. Admits to the cheating. Admits to shutting down and destroying our marriage. She bought into her own lies.
Sadly, our marriage was thrown away for nothing. She hates herself and I won't get back with her - even though I still love her, I deserve better. I have just now (more than a year) just started dating again.
Financially, emotionally, & physically, the price I have paid has been almost more than I could handle at times. I sought counselling on my own and finally am beginning to feel normal again.
I hope you share nothing in common with my experience -- but only your wife (and time) will tell you the truth.
I wish you the best and good luck.
~AJ
Your posts could have been mine a little over a year ago -- exactly. I mean EXACTLY. I'm 33 y/o (ex-wife is 28 now). We'd been together for 7 years (married for just under three when it all started.)
I'll just summarize what's happened in the last year.
- Wife, out of the blue, is unhappy with ME (it's all my fault) Friday, March 26, 2004 and gives me a freaking list of all my faults (controlling, too frugal, poor communication, "down" - my brother died the year prior (Thanksgiving day) and my sister shot herself in February). I was devastated and totally unprepared. I may not have been super happy all the time, but I was happy with my wife, our marriage, and my job. We had just bought our dream home (Jul '03). I think, understandably, I wasn't myself and trying to deal with some major issues and grief.
- Saturday, the next day, she needs "space" and time out with the girls...oh, and she wants a divorce. No talking, no discussion, no counseling, it was OVER. I go to u-haul and buy boxes and start packing.
- Sunday morning (early) she comes home. Unable to sleep, I pack all night long and when she gets home, I tell her I don't want a divorce, I'll do anything - counseling, whatever it takes. She agrees.
- Wednesday, she changes her mind. Divorce is back on. No talking, etc.
Less than a month later, I'm out of the house and moved back to FL (from UT). Here's where it gets good.
She had met someone else (she claims that Saturday night - yeah right), he was calling her at work that week. She was cheating, and had cheating before but I didn't know. I had been considering reconciling, but with that news, I push for the divorce.
July 30th 2004 (1 year and 15 days after buying the house) the house is sold. August the divorce is final. Guess what?
The grass wasn't greener. She wishes she could undo everything. Admits to lying about me to her friends and family. Admits to the cheating. Admits to shutting down and destroying our marriage. She bought into her own lies.
Sadly, our marriage was thrown away for nothing. She hates herself and I won't get back with her - even though I still love her, I deserve better. I have just now (more than a year) just started dating again.
Financially, emotionally, & physically, the price I have paid has been almost more than I could handle at times. I sought counselling on my own and finally am beginning to feel normal again.
I hope you share nothing in common with my experience -- but only your wife (and time) will tell you the truth.
I wish you the best and good luck.
~AJ
Well, I have now gone through my first ever session of marriage counseling and I have to say that overall, I felt it was a positive experience.
Just to catch up...my wife spent the night with her friend last night and I stayed at our house with the dogs. As I was preparing to walk out the kitchen door (and into the garage) this morning for work, I heard the garage door open. So, I decided to just go out the front door and avoid any confrontation since she had told me she didn't want to be around me right now. Managed to back out without seeing her but I did notice she cracked open the kitchen door to see me leaving. About 20 minutes later she called my cell phone and asked me if I was in my car when she pulled up. I told her that no, I just opted to go out the front door. I had also left the letter I wrote her on her vanity but I don't know if she had read it when she called me. I told her I was looking into getting a motel room tonight so she could have the house and be with the dogs. But she told me that she didn't want me to do that and that she was staying with her friend again tonight. I told her I didn't mind doing the motel thing but she insisted she was totally content hanging out with her best friend while I stayed here with the dogs. Her signal started breaking up at that point and I pretty much said "Look, I can't hear you very well so I'm hanging up now...bye." I hung up and didn't speak to her again until I was in the lobby of the counselor this evening.
During the day at work, I did okay. Had a lot of work to do so it was good for me to stay busy. I did call my doctor though about calling in a perscription for something to help me sleep, which he did. Looking forward to taking one tonight so I can finally get a solid night of sleep...just SO incredibly fatigued from all of this.
So, we get to the counselor, fill out the typical forms and wait on the counselor. Turns out to be a super nice lady who apparently has some quality credentials. She has written a few books and she speaks (or heads up) seminars all the time. So, I trust that she knows what she is doing and has the goal of helping us save the marriage. So, she introduces herself and wants to see my wife first. They were probably gone for 15 minutes at the most and then she wanted to see me, alone. I feel like I was in there for an eternity but it was probably more like 20-25 minutes. A lot was said but to be honest, I think we spent more time talking about issues that involve me and only me. Issues from my childhood, my father leaving me/my sister at a young age, the lack of communication and ability to express ourselves in my family. It was actually a bit odd because most of the time I was in there, I felt like I was just seeing a shrink instead of a marriage counselor. I had no intention of even talking about some of that stuff but there it was, just all spilling out. Got kind of emotional actually and it felt kind of good to say some of that stuff. I've never seen a counselor for anything in my life but it was determined tonight that I need to, in order to address some issues that stem from my father leaving and the affect it has on my relationships all the years later. The rest of the time, it was pretty much the standard questions like "What do you think is wrong with your marriage?....what do you want me to do for your marriage?...what do you think your wife wants?...etc." And then she went to bring my wife in to join us.
It got pretty emotional then with my wife doing a good bit of crying. The counselor put us on the spot a lot and wanted us to tell her what we each thought the problem was and what we could both do to correct it. We both shared a lot of our feelings on what the problems were but neither of us seemed to have an answer on how to fix it or how to even begin to fix it. The counselor seems to think that the biggest issue for us is our lack of communication. She feels like we don't "talk" to each other about how we are feeling and when something one of us is doing that bothers us/hurts us. I wish I could explain exactly all that took place but to be honest, it just seemed like SO much was said and that time flew by. I also found out that there is a big issue of trust with my wife. Not trust as in infidelity. Trust as in my wife feels like I can't tell her things that bother me or what's going on in my head. She feels hurt because I apparently don't "let her in" to my life enough. She thinks that I keep her on the outside of a lot of stuff, even if it's something insignificant to me. But again, it ties into the communication thing I suppose.
We were with the counselor for 90 minutes total, including our individual time. When it was all said and done, the counselor felt that I should go see a therapist to deal with some of the things from my past that are apparently still creating problems for me. And this particular counselor wants to see my wife, alone, a few times, starting this Friday. And then she wants to see us again next Wed. (June 1st). She said that she normally waits 2 weeks inbetween sessions but feels like we need to come back next week to resolve some more things. Don't know if wanting to see us in one week is a bad sign for my marriage or a good sign. The good thing though is that for the first time in several days, I did at least get the impression from my wife that she wants to make the marriage work but apparently she's just really angry with me right now. We even had a funny moment in the elevator. As we were waiting on the elevator, I said "wow, I might as well have been laying on a couch when I was in there alone because she broke me down with my past....she seems to think that I need to see a counselor so I guess I have some issues with my dad leaving." And my wife cracks a smile, looks at me and says "Yeah, you're F'd up." I said "yeah, I guess I am." And then we both had a nice laugh.
We walked out to the parking deck together and I asked her if she was coming by again in the morning to get ready for work. She said she wouldn't be because she packed enough stuff and would just leave for work from her friend's house. And she's opting to spend the night there through next Wednesday, before leaving for Missouri next Thursday. So, even though I feel counseling was productive, I'm still left with the reality that my marriage is in trouble and my wife will not come home to me right now. I told her that I felt like her friend was going to think I was an ass for staying at home while my wife had to crash at someone's house. She assured me that it wasn't like that at all and that it was only this way because her friend knew about our problems and none of mine did, with the exception of an old friend back home, over an hour away. She has offered me a place to stay but it's just not practical with me working. So, she said she was totally fine with staying at her friend's house and was glad I was here with the dogs instead of at a motel. I then was like "well, I don't know when I'll see you again so just let me know if you need me to get out of the house so you can come by and get some things or see the dogs." And she said "Look, it's not that I mind bumping into you there...I just don't want to be there with you all night right now." And she also told me that I could call her and email her. I told her that was fine and that I loved her. She said she loved me and we both left.
So, now, here I sit alone again tonight with the dogs knowing that I will not share a bed with my wife for no less than another 12 nights nor even have the opportunity to just coexist under the same roof for any extended period of time. But for some reason, I'm feeling okay right now. I think that counseling, if nothing else, allowed me to feel as though my wife wanted to try to make things work. Guess that's all I need at this point. And I do think I probably need to see someone about my own issues from my childhood. I don't think they are by any means the sole reason for the problems in my marriage. But I do think they play a part and maybe addressing those separately will help us as a couple. My wife could probably use some individual counseling as well for the loss of her grandmother and some of her issues of insecurity. As I said, she already has an appointment scheduled so steps are being made in the right direction. Just really sucks having to accept that this is all a reality. As I sit here, I can't even believe that I was in marriage counseling earlier...just blows me away to even think that my marriage got to that point. Just one of those "it will never happen to me" kind of things I guess.
Anyway, I just wanted to catch everyone up since I wasn't able to get on here from work today. But I'm okay at the moment. I cooked/ate a good meal a little while ago, I haven't cried today/tonight and with the aid of western medicine, I will sleep really good tonight which is something I desperately need. Nothing I can do now but take it one day at a time and hope for the best. Thanks again to everyone here that chimed in on this thread...it has helped me more than you'll ever know. And I'll update this thread off and on as my story continues. Not sure there will be much to talk about until our next session on June 1st. With her opting to not stay here for awhile, not much will be accomplished so I'm just hoping to get through these days/nights without much trouble. If anything of interest surfaces before the next counseling, I'll be sure to fill you folks in. Thanks for all the "good lucks"...believe me, I need them.
Just to catch up...my wife spent the night with her friend last night and I stayed at our house with the dogs. As I was preparing to walk out the kitchen door (and into the garage) this morning for work, I heard the garage door open. So, I decided to just go out the front door and avoid any confrontation since she had told me she didn't want to be around me right now. Managed to back out without seeing her but I did notice she cracked open the kitchen door to see me leaving. About 20 minutes later she called my cell phone and asked me if I was in my car when she pulled up. I told her that no, I just opted to go out the front door. I had also left the letter I wrote her on her vanity but I don't know if she had read it when she called me. I told her I was looking into getting a motel room tonight so she could have the house and be with the dogs. But she told me that she didn't want me to do that and that she was staying with her friend again tonight. I told her I didn't mind doing the motel thing but she insisted she was totally content hanging out with her best friend while I stayed here with the dogs. Her signal started breaking up at that point and I pretty much said "Look, I can't hear you very well so I'm hanging up now...bye." I hung up and didn't speak to her again until I was in the lobby of the counselor this evening.
During the day at work, I did okay. Had a lot of work to do so it was good for me to stay busy. I did call my doctor though about calling in a perscription for something to help me sleep, which he did. Looking forward to taking one tonight so I can finally get a solid night of sleep...just SO incredibly fatigued from all of this.
So, we get to the counselor, fill out the typical forms and wait on the counselor. Turns out to be a super nice lady who apparently has some quality credentials. She has written a few books and she speaks (or heads up) seminars all the time. So, I trust that she knows what she is doing and has the goal of helping us save the marriage. So, she introduces herself and wants to see my wife first. They were probably gone for 15 minutes at the most and then she wanted to see me, alone. I feel like I was in there for an eternity but it was probably more like 20-25 minutes. A lot was said but to be honest, I think we spent more time talking about issues that involve me and only me. Issues from my childhood, my father leaving me/my sister at a young age, the lack of communication and ability to express ourselves in my family. It was actually a bit odd because most of the time I was in there, I felt like I was just seeing a shrink instead of a marriage counselor. I had no intention of even talking about some of that stuff but there it was, just all spilling out. Got kind of emotional actually and it felt kind of good to say some of that stuff. I've never seen a counselor for anything in my life but it was determined tonight that I need to, in order to address some issues that stem from my father leaving and the affect it has on my relationships all the years later. The rest of the time, it was pretty much the standard questions like "What do you think is wrong with your marriage?....what do you want me to do for your marriage?...what do you think your wife wants?...etc." And then she went to bring my wife in to join us.
It got pretty emotional then with my wife doing a good bit of crying. The counselor put us on the spot a lot and wanted us to tell her what we each thought the problem was and what we could both do to correct it. We both shared a lot of our feelings on what the problems were but neither of us seemed to have an answer on how to fix it or how to even begin to fix it. The counselor seems to think that the biggest issue for us is our lack of communication. She feels like we don't "talk" to each other about how we are feeling and when something one of us is doing that bothers us/hurts us. I wish I could explain exactly all that took place but to be honest, it just seemed like SO much was said and that time flew by. I also found out that there is a big issue of trust with my wife. Not trust as in infidelity. Trust as in my wife feels like I can't tell her things that bother me or what's going on in my head. She feels hurt because I apparently don't "let her in" to my life enough. She thinks that I keep her on the outside of a lot of stuff, even if it's something insignificant to me. But again, it ties into the communication thing I suppose.
We were with the counselor for 90 minutes total, including our individual time. When it was all said and done, the counselor felt that I should go see a therapist to deal with some of the things from my past that are apparently still creating problems for me. And this particular counselor wants to see my wife, alone, a few times, starting this Friday. And then she wants to see us again next Wed. (June 1st). She said that she normally waits 2 weeks inbetween sessions but feels like we need to come back next week to resolve some more things. Don't know if wanting to see us in one week is a bad sign for my marriage or a good sign. The good thing though is that for the first time in several days, I did at least get the impression from my wife that she wants to make the marriage work but apparently she's just really angry with me right now. We even had a funny moment in the elevator. As we were waiting on the elevator, I said "wow, I might as well have been laying on a couch when I was in there alone because she broke me down with my past....she seems to think that I need to see a counselor so I guess I have some issues with my dad leaving." And my wife cracks a smile, looks at me and says "Yeah, you're F'd up." I said "yeah, I guess I am." And then we both had a nice laugh.
We walked out to the parking deck together and I asked her if she was coming by again in the morning to get ready for work. She said she wouldn't be because she packed enough stuff and would just leave for work from her friend's house. And she's opting to spend the night there through next Wednesday, before leaving for Missouri next Thursday. So, even though I feel counseling was productive, I'm still left with the reality that my marriage is in trouble and my wife will not come home to me right now. I told her that I felt like her friend was going to think I was an ass for staying at home while my wife had to crash at someone's house. She assured me that it wasn't like that at all and that it was only this way because her friend knew about our problems and none of mine did, with the exception of an old friend back home, over an hour away. She has offered me a place to stay but it's just not practical with me working. So, she said she was totally fine with staying at her friend's house and was glad I was here with the dogs instead of at a motel. I then was like "well, I don't know when I'll see you again so just let me know if you need me to get out of the house so you can come by and get some things or see the dogs." And she said "Look, it's not that I mind bumping into you there...I just don't want to be there with you all night right now." And she also told me that I could call her and email her. I told her that was fine and that I loved her. She said she loved me and we both left.
So, now, here I sit alone again tonight with the dogs knowing that I will not share a bed with my wife for no less than another 12 nights nor even have the opportunity to just coexist under the same roof for any extended period of time. But for some reason, I'm feeling okay right now. I think that counseling, if nothing else, allowed me to feel as though my wife wanted to try to make things work. Guess that's all I need at this point. And I do think I probably need to see someone about my own issues from my childhood. I don't think they are by any means the sole reason for the problems in my marriage. But I do think they play a part and maybe addressing those separately will help us as a couple. My wife could probably use some individual counseling as well for the loss of her grandmother and some of her issues of insecurity. As I said, she already has an appointment scheduled so steps are being made in the right direction. Just really sucks having to accept that this is all a reality. As I sit here, I can't even believe that I was in marriage counseling earlier...just blows me away to even think that my marriage got to that point. Just one of those "it will never happen to me" kind of things I guess.
Anyway, I just wanted to catch everyone up since I wasn't able to get on here from work today. But I'm okay at the moment. I cooked/ate a good meal a little while ago, I haven't cried today/tonight and with the aid of western medicine, I will sleep really good tonight which is something I desperately need. Nothing I can do now but take it one day at a time and hope for the best. Thanks again to everyone here that chimed in on this thread...it has helped me more than you'll ever know. And I'll update this thread off and on as my story continues. Not sure there will be much to talk about until our next session on June 1st. With her opting to not stay here for awhile, not much will be accomplished so I'm just hoping to get through these days/nights without much trouble. If anything of interest surfaces before the next counseling, I'll be sure to fill you folks in. Thanks for all the "good lucks"...believe me, I need them.
AreaCode707
Lifer
- Sep 21, 2001
- 18,447
- 133
- 106
Sounds like the counseling may be moving you somewhere positive. Glad you feel more confident because of it.
Sleep well.
Sleep well.
Sorry for your hardship dude.
Please visit stopyourdivorce.com.
She's already gone into a mental state you never really knew about her and her not coming home is only doing much more damage.
Sorry man. You can try all you like, but she has already gone to that place and most likely she has been there for quite some time.
eat, sleep, exercise...you'll get through it.
Once she's out of the house, sorry to say but it is already over. Her decision is already made. she is chosing the home of her friend over the home with you...that is a pretty strong statement and she's already made it abundantly clear.
sorry man. You've got friends and family...you'll be ok. first things first - make an appointment with an attorney stat...like tomorrow. You must protect yourself now.
Please visit stopyourdivorce.com.
She's already gone into a mental state you never really knew about her and her not coming home is only doing much more damage.
Sorry man. You can try all you like, but she has already gone to that place and most likely she has been there for quite some time.
eat, sleep, exercise...you'll get through it.
Once she's out of the house, sorry to say but it is already over. Her decision is already made. she is chosing the home of her friend over the home with you...that is a pretty strong statement and she's already made it abundantly clear.
sorry man. You've got friends and family...you'll be ok. first things first - make an appointment with an attorney stat...like tomorrow. You must protect yourself now.
I am glad that you came away with an optimistic feeling on all this.
You might still wanna check out the marriagebuilders.com site. There is a lot of really good stuff there that might help you along on your own.
Good Luck!
You might still wanna check out the marriagebuilders.com site. There is a lot of really good stuff there that might help you along on your own.
Good Luck!
shilala
Lifer
- Oct 5, 2004
- 11,437
- 1
- 76
My wife has been in and out of the house for extended periods of time. She used to run away to her house a few miles down the road and stay there for months.
That crap has just ended in the past couple years.
My point...
Her going down the road doesn't mean dick as to whether she's "gone for good" or "moved on". It does mean that she's causing more harm, that she's confused, and that she's taking it out on the old man.
I'm sure that's one of the issues the counselor wants to speak to her about, and probably a big reason why she scheduled her so quickly.
Get that good night's sleep. Remember what I told you earlier about "absence making the heart grow fonder".
She wants to string you along and "bump into you" because it makes things easier on her. Don't let her do it. It's damn hard to cut the cord. If you don't do it, you'll pay for it more than you know.
You can feed her the "It's too hard seeing you and not having you" story if she asks why you're avoiding her. If you stick to your guns and tell her this is the way you have to play it, she'll get an understanding about what it's like to be without you, heart and soul.
She'll also have to start worrying about losing you, FOR REAL. So far it's just a little woman game for her. Bump up the ante or you'll lose big.
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
I am glad that you came away with an optimistic feeling on all this.
You might still wanna check out the marriagebuilders.com site. There is a lot of really good stuff there that might help you along on your own.
Good Luck!
Thanks. I've been reading through some of the info on the helpful links that have been posted in this thread. Definitely a lot of great stuff but it can all be so overwhelming. Between my own thoughts, the counselor, a close friend, those forums and this one, I just feel so engulfed right now. That's not a bad thing but just a lot to try and take in all at once. Just trying to get a little help here, a little help there, a little at a time. Looks like I'll have a good bit of alone time coming up so I plan on reading as much as I can about what I'm (and others) are going through.
Well, time to take an Ambien and get some sleep. And contrary to a couple posts here, I really don't think it's to the point of needing a lawyer. I think I know my wife pretty well and I just think she needs some space right now to process everything and experience some sort of cleansing. I could be wrong about that but I have to have faith that she wants this marriage to work. Nothing during our session today leads me to believe otherwise. If it bites me in the butt in the end, then I guess it's a lesson learned. But right now, I'm opting to remain optimistic despite maybe not agreeing with some of the decisions that are being made. Hopefully she'll opt to come back home for a night or two before she leaves for her trip next week but the last thing I want to do is rush things or push her. I sense that if she feels pressure from me, she'll become annoyed or even more put off. So I'm just giving her the space/time she feels she needs regardless of the outcome.
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