No but had planned on it tonight or tomorrow morning before work. I just feel like I'm walking on eggshells right now and fear saying the wrong thing. But yes, this is a concern of mine and I want her to know that my goal with counseling is to save the marriage. I am prepared to tell her that if she feels we're only going to confirm the worst, then it's a waste of time/money.
No but had planned on it tonight or tomorrow morning before work. I just feel like I'm walking on eggshells right now and fear saying the wrong thing. But yes, this is a concern of mine and I want her to know that my goal with counseling is to save the marriage. I am prepared to tell her that if she feels we're only going to confirm the worst, then it's a waste of time/money.
Sure hope you're right Noggin...just wish I could share your enthusiam. I feel like I know my wife pretty well and I'm seeing a side of her I've never seen. She just has this look in her eyes and this tone to her voice when we talk about the possibility of our marriage being over. I just don't sense that she wants to make this work as much as I do right now. I just get the impression that she may have already made up her mind and as somoeone suggested earlier, that going to counseling will at least give her the feeling of "at least I/we tried." Don't know much of anything right now...just on an emotional rollercoaster and I feel it's going to get worse before it gets better, if it ever does.
I am reading more and more of your posts on what she wants. Someone needs to tell her that there is a real posibility that she is being unfair. The beginning of a marriage is all sparkles and belly flops... but VERY few last like that forever. There is Honeymoon and then there is real life. And to be honest... look at all the ppl who have stuck it out and have stayed married for 20-50 years... they will be honest and tell you that they did not spend all that time 'in love' with each other. There are periods of a marriage that have love, trust, respect and not all heartbeats and valentines. The trick is to stick with it and realize that love is good enough during those periods until 'in love' comes back.
As far as her wanting you to listen to her and be attentive, and interact with her daily stuff. Well, most guys aren't like that. The trouble begins when one partner expects the other to act that way whether it is in their character or not. Guys dont dramatize and emotionalize things to death like women do.
I might also suggest that her feelings of un/acctractiveness might be a her thing. If she feels attractive in herself, she might not need to get re-inforcement from you. I am not saying that a guy should not notice a new outfit or compliment hair or stuff. But men and women look at things differently. Perhaps instead of looking at what she is not hearing with words or looks, she should focus on they ways that you DO tell her these things... thru your actions.
Finally a word about 'other couples' ... how in the world does your wife know what goes on with these ppl in private? If they were cheating, or lying or totally negectful... would your wife be able to know this from the happy faces they put on in public?
No marriage is perfect... the trick is to acccept each other for who they are when times are rough as well as good. Sometimes you need to put what is best for the marriage before what one partnet personally wants, and both partners should listen to and look at what is there instead of what is not.
As far as her wanting you to listen to her and be attentive, and interact with her daily stuff. Well, most guys aren't like that. The trouble begins when one partner expects the other to act that way whether it is in their character or not. Guys dont dramatize and emotionalize things to death like women do.
I might also suggest that her feelings of un/acctractiveness might be a her thing. If she feels attractive in herself, she might not need to get re-inforcement from you. I am not saying that a guy should not notice a new outfit or compliment hair or stuff. But men and women look at things differently. Perhaps instead of looking at what she is not hearing with words or looks, she should focus on they ways that you DO tell her these things... thru your actions.
Finally a word about 'other couples' ... how in the world does your wife know what goes on with these ppl in private? If they were cheating, or lying or totally negectful... would your wife be able to know this from the happy faces they put on in public?
No marriage is perfect... the trick is to acccept each other for who they are when times are rough as well as good. Sometimes you need to put what is best for the marriage before what one partnet personally wants, and both partners should listen to and look at what is there instead of what is not.
I'd like to cheer you up but honestly, if the problem is your lack of communication then why did she just left you alone in the house and slept somewhere else? Nothing is accomplished by that. That to me means she doesn't want to see you and had already given up on the situation. She is feeling guilty about it and that's the only reason she brought up counseling. I'm really sorry about the situation but I don't think she is being completely fair to you
I just wish you all the best.
SearchMaster
Diamond Member
- Jun 6, 2002
- 7,791
- 114
- 106
My wife and I went through counseling about 4 years ago. To be completely honest, most of the problem in our marriage was in unrealistic expectations on her part. We eventually stopped making appointments, and she eventually started to see what a great guy I really am (heh), and now we're happier than ever.
It CAN work, but I don't know that it's the counseling as much as a concerted effort by both parties to make things work. My advice: tell her you're uncomfortable but you're willing to do anything to keep her, but don't act like a martyr. Don't get angry at the sessions - try to be calm and explain your position/actions/inactions as cogently as you can. Also, be as conciliatory as you have in this thread. Explain to her that you'll probably fall back into your patterns as you have before, but the difference is that this time you'll listen to her when she tries to help you back on track.
Good luck.
It CAN work, but I don't know that it's the counseling as much as a concerted effort by both parties to make things work. My advice: tell her you're uncomfortable but you're willing to do anything to keep her, but don't act like a martyr. Don't get angry at the sessions - try to be calm and explain your position/actions/inactions as cogently as you can. Also, be as conciliatory as you have in this thread. Explain to her that you'll probably fall back into your patterns as you have before, but the difference is that this time you'll listen to her when she tries to help you back on track.
Good luck.
I think "hope for the best. Prepare for the worst" fits here.
All the bullsh!t about you is not really about you. She is not who she wants to be.
Also don't just think about the marriage surviving but about what happens after it has. You think you might be able to go back to the way it was but you won't. You may "forget" for small periods of time but it is always lurking in the back of your mind which causes its own problems.
<-marriage survived but often wonders if I should have let go.
All the bullsh!t about you is not really about you. She is not who she wants to be.
Also don't just think about the marriage surviving but about what happens after it has. You think you might be able to go back to the way it was but you won't. You may "forget" for small periods of time but it is always lurking in the back of your mind which causes its own problems.
<-marriage survived but often wonders if I should have let go.
You sound sincere and willing to listen to her now, so there is a good chance you can make progress. It's hard to say what is going on in her mind, but the fact that she did ask you to come in for counseling suggests she is still invested enough in your marriage to try and make things work. So focus on that positive sign and best wishes!
Originally posted by: Attrox
I'd like to cheer you up but honestly, if the problem is your lack of communication then why did she just left you alone in the house and slept somewhere else? Nothing is accomplished by that. That to me means she doesn't want to see you and had already given up on the situation. She is feeling guilty about it and that's the only reason she brought up counseling. I'm really sorry about the situation but I don't think she is being completely fair to you
I just wish you all the best.
I just think she needed an escape from it for a night. I think that it has gotten to a point where she no longer looks forward to coming home because she is now associating home/me with her unhappiness. So she is working more hours lately, spending more time with her friends, etc. I think that she just feels that if she's not here, then it's easier for her to find some element of comfort. She was here first thing the next morning but she flat out told me that she just didn't want to come home that night and wanted the space. I wasn't about to demand she come home. We even went out to breakfast the next morning but it was very uncomfortable and I didn't feel like she was there because she wanted to be.
And as for not accomplishing anything by not coming home...keep in mind that she has given me numerous opportunities to accomplish something while she WAS here. After so many failed attempts to reach me or get through to me, I think she has just become apathetic and tired of trying. Part of me feels she has already given up and is just trying to handle this in a way that doesn't hurt me too much. I think the counseling and the other gestures are possibly just to make the transition easier for both of us. Hope I'm wrong but it's hard not to be pessimistic at this point.
And thanks for your comments KarenMarie. I just feel like she wants more out of a marriage than how you described it in your first paragraph. I'm a realist and I know that what you said carries a lot of weight. But at the same time, I think there has to be some middle ground. And I'm not sure I have done enough to at least try to keep her happy. I can only hope you're right about falling in love again but I just pray the opportunity exists to do so. I love her with all of my heart and can't even fathom life without her.
Originally posted by: 49erinnc
Originally posted by: Attrox
I'd like to cheer you up but honestly, if the problem is your lack of communication then why did she just left you alone in the house and slept somewhere else? Nothing is accomplished by that. That to me means she doesn't want to see you and had already given up on the situation. She is feeling guilty about it and that's the only reason she brought up counseling. I'm really sorry about the situation but I don't think she is being completely fair to you
I just wish you all the best.
And as for not accomplishing anything by not coming home...keep in mind that she has given me numerous opportunities to accomplish something while she WAS here. After so many failed attempts to reach me or get through to me, I think she has just become apathetic and tired of trying. Part of me feels she has already given up and is just trying to handle this in a way that doesn't hurt me too much. I think the counseling and the other gestures are possibly just to make the transition easier for both of us. Hope I'm wrong but it's hard not to be pessimistic at this point.
wow.
You just need to let go now. It will be better for you.
Thanks again to everyone. I usually only post in the video, software, FS/FT and Hot Deals forums. Never thought I'd be posting on AAT about my marital problems but regardless of what happens, it at least helps to get things off my chest. As I said, I'm not at a point where I can talk to the people I interact with daily, about my problems. So even though this is just the internet, I do know that you're all real people, with real lives and real problems. So for what it's worth, it means a lot to me to be able to express myself here and get some helpful feedback.
I'm probably going to sign off for the night because I have yet to eat a meal today and I know I need to get something down. And I need to just sit down and process everything before she gets home tonight. I'm sure this thread will fall down the pages but I do plan to at least post again about how counseling has gone and about the marriage in general. Thanks again to everyone...it really means a lot to me to know that there are still some genunine and caring people in the world who will offer advice and console a total stranger.
I'm probably going to sign off for the night because I have yet to eat a meal today and I know I need to get something down. And I need to just sit down and process everything before she gets home tonight. I'm sure this thread will fall down the pages but I do plan to at least post again about how counseling has gone and about the marriage in general. Thanks again to everyone...it really means a lot to me to know that there are still some genunine and caring people in the world who will offer advice and console a total stranger.
Wasn't going to post again tonight but some things unfolded. And by the way Karen, she's 33 and I'm 32. This is our first marriage. And no, I honestly do not believe there is anyone else. Nothing has led me to believe that and I know some guys have been fooled but this isn't about another guy.
Anyway...since I'm not a great communicator, I wanted to write my wife a long, heartfelt letter today to express everything to her. I knew that this would be the only way I could say everything I wanted to say without forgetting something or not speaking from the heart. She was scheduled to work her part time job tonight from 6-10pm EST. So I opted to drive up to her workplace and just put the letter in her car. I know: kind of high-schoolish behavor for a married man in his 30's but I really wanted her to read what I had to say before she got home tonight. Or at least at the time, it's what I wanted to do but I haven't thought clearly for days. So I get there and her car is nowhere to be found. Me thinking the worst, I decide to call her workplace and just ask for and as I suspected, she wasn't working.
So, I immediatly started getting pretty upset and I called her. Got her voicemail and left her very rational message, just letting her know I came up there to drop off a letter but found out she wasn't working. When she had gotten to work, she found out she got dropped for the night. She was next door shopping at another store and told me that if I wanted to turn around and come back to see, I could. So at least it wasn't a worst-case scenario where she was screwing around on me.
However, I asked her why she didn't call me to let me know she wasn't working. Because she had called me earlier in the day to ask me to tape the season finale of 24 for her tonight. So I just assumed she would want to come home to watch it. Turns out, she didn't want to come home. She told me that she just didn't want to be around me right now because she needed to have some space in order to get things sorted out. This wasn't easy to take in but at this point, I'm not in a position to get bent out of shape and make matters worse. So then I brought up the marriage counseling and expressed what my intent/desire/objective was in going. I told her that I only wanted to go as a means of helping our marriage and hopefully saving it. And I told her that I just felt like that wasn't the impression I got from her but needed to know if she was going for the same reasons or to just confirm it was over. After some further dialogue, she did tell me that she wouldn't be going if she didn't want to fix the problems. I don't think her heart is in it as much as mine but at the same time, at least she is making an effort and leading me to believe she's going in hopes of getting help for us.
And I was a bit misinformed about her previous counseling. Apparently, she has been going to "grief counseling" and not marriage counseling. She recently lost a family member she was close to and I think she has had a hard time with it so that is the counseling she has been going for. But she did say that during this grief counseling, she has been trying to learn things about herself but I don't know if there was any discussion of our marriage...doubt it. So neither of us has seen the person we will be seeing tomorrow evening.
Now for the rough part... As we continued to talk, she told me that right now, she's just really angry, really confused and really upset. And that she just feels like she needs some significant time away from me. She said aside from being together at counseling, that she needs to be away from me. So, she said she wanted to spend the night again at her best friend's and that she would just swing by in the morning to get ready for work. And she told me she wanted to spend the rest of the week there to have some separation, in hopes of her figuring some stuff out. And then the following week, she is out of the state on a church convention with her family. So, aside from counseling and a brief encounter in the mornings, I will not be seeing my wife for almost two straight weeks.
I really don't know how to cope with that. But I have to let her have this time because she seems to really need it. She is giving me the impression that things are not going to get any better if she is around me right now because she can't get away from the bad feelings she has. I told her I would do whatever it took to help her figure things out. I even told her I'd take an entire week of vacation at work and just leave town just to give her the space she needs. She seems fine with just staying at her friend's house and only coming by here in the morning to get ready for work, a time where we don't really have much interaction anyway.
But I have to find some sense of comfort in at least hearing her say that she wanted to go to counseling in hopes of addressing the problems and working through them. Too much damage may have already been done but hopefully we can work through it all. As I sit here typing with our two dogs lying on the floor, I just can't even believe that I'm going through this. I can't believe the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with doesn't even want to come home to me. Very hard to stomach.
Yep. My ex and I went a few times, to a counselor that she went to alone first. After hearing both of our sides of things, he basically agreed with me.
He didn't actually say he did, but what he recommended for her to work on was exactly what I had a problem with.
She didn't want to hear that. Basically, she only went to say she tried....but she didn't try at all.
She was already planning to move on, and wasn't trying to work things out.
So if your wife has already been, I'd say your chances right now are 50/50. What you say to the counselor will be critical to whether he/she helps you or hurts you.
This is assuming that your wife is legitimately willing to work things out.
Dude, I read some of your posts about the state of your marriage......your wife has got the itch to move on. You do more than 95% of husbands do. It sounds almost like she's the man instead of you.
You need to quit blaming yourself. There is no marriage that ALWAYS has that "spark in your eye" when you look at each other. You should still feel it sometimes, but someone else hit the nail on the head....she wants to feel the butterflies again, hear her little heat go pitter-pat.
How old are you both? If you are under 30.....I'm sorry, but this is a normal thing, and the only answer is to grow up, especially on her part.
Hopefully, the counselor will help in this aspect.
You need to quit blaming yourself. There is no marriage that ALWAYS has that "spark in your eye" when you look at each other. You should still feel it sometimes, but someone else hit the nail on the head....she wants to feel the butterflies again, hear her little heat go pitter-pat.
How old are you both? If you are under 30.....I'm sorry, but this is a normal thing, and the only answer is to grow up, especially on her part.
Hopefully, the counselor will help in this aspect.
sorry dude.
try marriagebuilders.com or stopyourdivorce.com.
Only thing I can say is by being up her ass so to speak is only going to drive her away. Sounds like she is suffering from depression as well (loss of a family member will do that) and for some reason thinks you are the source of her unhappiness.
Best of luck.
loss of a close family member leads to divorce more times than not I'm sorry to say.
try marriagebuilders.com or stopyourdivorce.com.
Only thing I can say is by being up her ass so to speak is only going to drive her away. Sounds like she is suffering from depression as well (loss of a family member will do that) and for some reason thinks you are the source of her unhappiness.
Best of luck.
loss of a close family member leads to divorce more times than not I'm sorry to say.
Dude - I't really sucks, and I feel for you - in fact to much. I'm having flashbacks
Best of luck to you - but I've got to leave this thread.
Armitage :brokenheart:
It's not a situation where she's more of the man. I work one full-time job. My wife works a fulltime job from 8am-5pm and then works another job from 6-10pm. We have bills/debt to pay and she chooses to work 2 jobs to help out. I have asked her to quit her part time job but she can use the money and she enjoys the work. But because she has 2 jobs, I take care of most of the stuff around the house. And I don't mind doing it in the least and would probably still do most of it if she only worked one job. It's a compromise we opted to make and I have no complaints other than not seeing my wife as much for the last several months.
And as I said before, we're in our early 30's. And we're both very mature people who have been through a lot in our lives, both separately and together. This isn't an issue of just growing up. And as for the butterflies/pitter pat, I think she would be content in just still feeling it sometimes. But I don't think she feels it at all anymore. And I don't think she believes I feel it either.
I just hope this time apart, along with counseling helps out. I'm the type of person that likes to address issues on the spot and hammer it out until there is a resolution. I never like leaving things open-ended. So it's really tough to deal with her just staying away from me for a while in order to have some space. But I'm not going to push her with any of this. Aside from counseling, I am not going to put myself around her until she has had time to process everything. I do know that she is happiest when she is around her family, who live 13 hours away. She doesn't see them very often and it's been a while since her last visit with them. So, I do think it will do her a lot of good when she gets to see all of them next week. I know it's not going to make everything between us better again but I do think it will be a great thing for her. And hopefully she will come back from that in a better mindset.
Good luck dude. You seem to be doing everything that's possible. Let us know how counseling turns out.
I think you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. It sounds like she's depressed for other reasons, and issues pop up when that happens.
sixone
Lifer
- May 3, 2004
- 25,030
- 5
- 61
DO NOT underestimate the effect grief has on a person. It can cause all kinds of wierd behavior. She might (repeat: might) move back towards normal as she works thru it. She may just be questioning a lot of the things in her life, and she may be trying to put some of it off on you to make her struggle easier. She may be letting her fears get the better of her.
My point is, don't close your mind to any possibilities, either about your issues or hers. It may not shake out anything like you expect, so you need to be ready for whatever happens.
And don't be so hard on yourself. It takes two to make a marriage work well.
Sorry to say this, but I've been there and done that exact situation......it's over. Go to counseling, keep some hope, but women are about 99% gone when they say this.
No marriage counselor worth his/her salt would recommend any separation to a couple that is "trying to work things out".
She is lying. I'm sorry, truly I am. I've been in your exact situation, and I can see right through this now.....and at the time, I couldn't. Everyone was asking me the same questions that folks here are asking you, about her cheating, etc......she may or may not be, and honestly, unless you actually catch her in the act, you are going to refuse to believe that she could be anyway.
Go ahead, go to counseling, give it 100%...maybe she's legit........but also go see a lawyer and prepare yourself just in case.
That is the best advice anyone can give you. If you two work it out, great, but if not, you'll be VERY glad you prepared yourself.
She can put your ass in a sling by playing on your emotional, "I wanna work things out" state that you're in right now.
shilala
Lifer
- Oct 5, 2004
- 11,437
- 1
- 76
After hearing this, I think I'd go with another route.
I'd see the counselor, but I'd adopt a "go fvck yourself" stance.
At this point, she's got the "one up" on you. She's got you at an emotional disadvantage and obviously doesn't give a shyt how it's affecting you. Either that, or she's relishing it because you "deserve it". I'm sure she's got you figured as the root of all her problems.
Play the game.
Stop calling. Don't be there when she comes home in the morning. Make her worry and wonder. When she starts feeling the same way you do, perhaps it will strike a chord.
If not, you'll already have some practice at "getting on with it".
This is the way I bottom-lined it. Eventually I convinced myself that if the marriage was worth saving, both parties would have to be willing to do what's necessary and stop doing intentional shyt to hurt each other.
At any rate, it wasn't going to be a one way street where I was getting hurt and she was doing as she pleased.
It worked wonders.
Since then, we're right back to the same disfunctional relationship we've grown to love. We've filed for divorce, but are living together more happily than we ever have.
I don't know if the divorce will come to pass, but if it does, it's alright by me. I love her and she loves me. It'll always be that way. For some reason we just can't make a relationship work.
It's not the end of the world.
Thanks Sixone. I lost the family member I was closest too a couple years ago. If anything, it brought me closer to my wife (girlfriend at the time). But I guess everyone reacts differently to grief. I know she has had a hard time with the loss of her grandmother but make no mistake, we DO have marriage problems that have nothing to do with the loss of a family member. However, I do realize that dealing with grief can have a strong affect on your other problems or magnify them. So while her loss may not be the reason my wife won't come home to me tonight, it may very well have an impact on the decisions she makes during our troubles. And I'm trying not to be so hard on myself but I just can't help feeling I'm to blame for the majority of our problems right now. I'm hoping to get some help with myself as an individual, as well as a husband, through counseling.
After hearing this, I think I'd go with another route.
I'd see the counselor, but I'd adopt a "go fvck yourself" stance.
At this point, she's got the "one up" on you. She's got you at an emotional disadvantage and obviously doesn't give a shyt how it's affecting you. Either that, or she's relishing it because you "deserve it". I'm sure she's got you figured as the root of all her problems.
Play the game.
Stop calling. Don't be there when she comes home in the morning. Make her worry and wonder. When she starts feeling the same way you do, perhaps it will strike a chord.
If not, you'll already have some practice at "getting on with it".
This is the way I bottom-lined it. Eventually I convinced myself that if the marriage was worth saving, both parties would have to be willing to do what's necessary and stop doing intentional shyt to hurt each other.
At any rate, it wasn't going to be a one way street where I was getting hurt and she was doing as she pleased.
It worked wonders.
Since then, we're right back to the same disfunctional relationship we've grown to love. We've filed for divorce, but are living together more happily than we ever have.
I don't know if the divorce will come to pass, but if it does, it's alright by me. I love her and she loves me. It'll always be that way. For some reason we just can't make a relationship work.
It's not the end of the world.
[/quote]
Sounds like my feelings on the issue. I've tried to keep my responses limited cause I'll just look like an asshole even though I've both been there and been with the women who are giving their husbands this BS.
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